16 strong pirate fleet in 235 BC

[econ21]

Anyone encountered very large pirate fleets in EB? I saw a pirate fleet and gamely charged it with my veteran quinquireme fleet, before realising with horror that it was 16 ships strong. Exit my quinquireme, sinking to the bottom of the Med.

Given that fleets are so expensive, I am wondering whether to cheat using the consol or editing the upkeep in order to get rid of the pirates. Or should I try to deal with it playing by the rules? I guess 4 or 5 quinquireme fleets could defeat the pirates, but at 5k upkeep each, I am not sure I can afford them.

Has anyone encountered this issue before?

[Arjos]

Pirates spam like brigants, but they tend to assemble into huge fleets, when I find such big numbers I send them in remote areas (north Atlantic or Indian sea) via console commands...

[Burebista]

Playing the Aedui , i've been pested by 2 fleets of 16 pirate ships each.

Developed the Dariotum harbor , got 3 veneti ships ( 10 k each , 2900 upkeep) and problem solved although was a pain in finances.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Just defeat them with a few high end ships. No need to cheat, also they usually tend to assemble at the Baltic, they are not really a problem there.

~Fluvius

[econ21]

OK, tx for the quick feedback. I will build as many ships as I can afford and see if I can take them down without cheating. (I already lost a Consular army and my best starting general (Cotta) to a much lesser pirate fleet, so it's getting personal.)

[Taedius]

As Fluvius says, two Quinquireme fleets should do the job, no need for 4-5. The pirates can field impressive numbers, but their vessels are bottom line.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Those fleets are quite annoying. Especially when they enter Mediterranen where you don't encounter large pirate fleets.

[Randal]

When I get rich enough I send an expedition to the Baltic to kill them all. That tends to solve the problem for a while and prevents unpleasant surprises from showing up closer to home.

It's not exactly historical, of course, and the northern storms would probably sink Mediterranean galleys even if they could somehow refit and resupply along the way, but if it were possible it would actually make for a pretty cool story. Argonauts? What Argonauts? Nothing compared to the time the Rhodians sent forth a fleet to the frozen seas of the North to defeat the legions of the pirate kings!

All it needs is a few princesses to be rescued and magic artifacts to be employed.

[fomalhaut]

yeah, um, how is that even partly historical? i never ever understood the pirate menace to the degree represented in EB. by themselves they overpower every great nation combined. they just seem so artificial, there solely to make traversing waters a chore. that plus the fact that maintaining a fleet in EB is a feet in itself, its just absolutely silly the amount of pirates that exist.

[Arjos]

yeah, um, how is that even partly historical? i never ever understood the pirate menace to the degree represented in EB. by themselves they overpower every great nation combined. they just seem so artificial, there solely to make traversing waters a chore. that plus the fact that maintaining a fleet in EB is a feet in itself, its just absolutely silly the amount of pirates that exist.

One of the TW's engine limitations, I think the team actually reduced their spawning rate, not sure though...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

You can change the pirate spawning by changing descr_strat.txt file.
At the start of the file there is a line pirate_spawn_value.
Change it to something like 100 or bigger and the pirates don't spawn as often as usually.Also, pirates(just like brigands) spawn randomly. There is nothing that can be done about that.
The reason Mediterranen don't have huge pirate fleets is because both player and AI factions tend to destroy them before they can merge.

[vollorix]

I think there is a correlation between the pirate ports ( Eleutheroi ports, probably the docks ) and the pirate ships in the area. In Mediterrane Pirates seem to spawn quite rarely, but there are also very few Rebel ports at the game start, and with time those towns got conquered, while the northern ones stay save for decades.

[NikosMaximilian]

A bit off-topic: Does anyone else gets pirates spawning in the Caspian Sea? I do, and it's a pain in the arse. Since you can't train anything there to beat them, you gotta cheat and teleport them elsewhere. But it's a bit silly that pirates spawn in a sea where you can't train a navy.

[vollorix]

Pirates spawn even in smaller lakes sometimes...
Just move them to the Mediterranean ( move_character "Admiral Name" xxx,xxx ( for coordinates )

[Randal]

Well, having a pirate menace is historical. In the 1st century BC there were huge pirate fleets operating from Crete and Cilicia. Lots of individual pirates preying on commerce, but also fleets that engaged the Romans in battle and defeated them. The Romans sent various fleets and magistrates against them, with only limited success. One of Pompeius' extraordinary commands was a mission to defeat all the pirates in the Mediterranean. And even after his son Sextus organised a fleet of pirates to continue the war against Caesar through unconventional means.

It was the Romans themselves who caused this problem. They had defeated and weakened the eastern powers such as Macedonia and the Seleucid Empire and had forbidden them from having big fleets. This created a power vacuum they neglected to fill themselves. It's similar to what happens in-game when there are a -lot- of eleutheroi ports in the region.

Pirates in the Baltic sailing to the Mediterranean still is weird. But the big pirate fleets themselves make sense to me.

[NikosMaximilian]

Well, having a pirate menace is historical. In the 1st century BC there were huge pirate fleets operating from Crete and Cilicia. Lots of individual pirates preying on commerce, but also fleets that engaged the Romans in battle and defeated them. The Romans sent various fleets and magistrates against them, with only limited success. One of Pompeius' extraordinary commands was a mission to defeat all the pirates in the Mediterranean. And even after his son Sextus organised a fleet of pirates to continue the war against Caesar through unconventional means.

It was the Romans themselves who caused this problem. They had defeated and weakened the eastern powers such as Macedonia and the Seleucid Empire and had forbidden them from having big fleets. This created a power vacuum they neglected to fill themselves. It's similar to what happens in-game when there are a -lot- of eleutheroi ports in the region.

Pirates in the Baltic sailing to the Mediterranean still is weird. But the big pirate fleets themselves make sense to me.

I agree -to some extent- that the amount of pirates are accurately represented. What I find unrealistic is the 16-unit or entire full stack. It's a contradiction with the way pirates have historically operated. Such a fleet would require manoeuvring and logistics that go against the hit-and-run tactics of piracy.

[vollorix]

Full stack might be a bit too much, but those ships ( except the one "great pirate expedition" containing 42 soldiers! vs. 16 of any standard ship, which i´ve found in the EDU ), are quite weak, actually. Pirates weren´t just plundering trade routes, it was the slave buiseness that was so profitable, and some governments used to support them, offering them some protection and logistic support. So, once a bigger power would build up a fleet that might threaten the pirates it is no suprise they´d work together and combine their power to face such a threat.
But this large pirate fleets do not spawn/merge in the Mediterranean, but in the north, where there is not one maritime power to surpress them. No AI would bother with building ships to hunt down those pirates, even when you see Casse finances hitting 200k line - and they would be able to deal with pirates, since their bigger ships are even stronger than Bireme ( Pentekaroi, sp? ) vessels. I once tried to hunt down the pirates as Casse, but after investing a bunch into my fancy fleet i whitnessed it´s utter destruction with battle odds 3:1 in my favour, and then gave up... ( 3:1 odds, 3 command star admiral against no stars at all, and my fleet get´s sunk! come on..... )

[Ca Putt]

well it's one thing as the casse,it's something else as Sweboz^^

tho personally I think it would be neat tosee pirate activity proportional to trade profit or dock sizes. Idon't know if that is at allpossible but it would be better than those myriads of pirates roaming around the northern atlantic ratherthan the mediterranean.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Well, having a pirate menace is historical. In the 1st century BC there were huge pirate fleets operating from Crete and Cilicia. Lots of individual pirates preying on commerce, but also fleets that engaged the Romans in battle and defeated them. The Romans sent various fleets and magistrates against them, with only limited success. One of Pompeius' extraordinary commands was a mission to defeat all the pirates in the Mediterranean. And even after his son Sextus organised a fleet of pirates to continue the war against Caesar through unconventional means.

It was the Romans themselves who caused this problem. They had defeated and weakened the eastern powers such as Macedonia and the Seleucid Empire and had forbidden them from having big fleets. This created a power vacuum they neglected to fill themselves. It's similar to what happens in-game when there are a -lot- of eleutheroi ports in the region.

Pirates in the Baltic sailing to the Mediterranean still is weird. But the big pirate fleets themselves make sense to me.

Agreed, don't forget about Rhodos, because Rome slowly removed them from the picture, their fleet and wealth diminished, that was one of the main causes of mass piracy.

~Fluvius

[Populus Romanus]

Why is it that pirates spawn so heavily in the Baltic?

[Arjos]

Why is it that pirates spawn so heavily in the Baltic?

No AI fleet to mop them up, and too many eleutheroi ports...

[Rahl]

No AI fleet to mop them up, and too many eleutheroi ports...

There's also the theory that they go for the original province of Latium that is now Gotland (the biggest island in the baltic).
I don't know if that's true. I conquered the baltic lands as the Casse and destroyed the pirates. The effect was that I didn't had big problems with new pirates since then, while more of them seem to spawn in the Mediterranian and fight with the AI fleets there. I think most important is if they have enemies. It seems to me there's a limited number of pirate fleets on the map, similar to the rebels who are limited to one army per region. If fleets merge then new ones can spawn and in some regions they amass. That's mostly the baltic but I often see one or two big fleets in the red sea near Sinai too, where they can't go past the egyptian ports who block the canal.

[Cambyses]

My theory is that most of the time its not worth fighting pirates. The cost of recruiting and maintaining your navy is considerably higher than any losses the pirates might casue by the occassional blockade. Unless of course you need to very reliably move troops by sea, but very few factions are likely to be in that position.

Its more of a prestige thing once your empire gets big enough, financially you are better off not fighting them.

[Cute Wolf]

never do much pirate hunting, just pretend those ports are non-existent and you'll be safe (and only use ships for quick crossings, disband immediately afterwards)

EB ships isn't too balanced, it's great for naval fight if you're Greek or Carthaginian, a bit bum if you're Roman, and your navy are real useless with the others

[moonburn]

herm not if you´re a kelt and have armorica it isn´t :|

also when you say greeks you mean all the hellenes right ? so pontus ptolemaioi seulekids maks epeiros baktrians + the kh greeks ain´t so few