Mafia X [Concluded]

[[MAFIA] Richie]

I operate with a "lynch all liars" mindset. And since when is making yourself look really scummy a townie tactic?

Mafia strategy in this game is simple.
They can either follow the influential players like a sheep or, they can control the discussion them selves.
They don't need to gamble. Mafias are... or should be extra careful of what they say. So if you find a scummy post, I would say they are more likely to be town just making a mistake.

For the town, not being able to do the usual play style analysis and not knowing who is guilty and who wasn't, only real strategy is talking a lot, analyzing kills and maybe spontaneous bandwagon.

If we don't have anyone good to vote for I suggest on leaving things on chance.
We ask one of the seemingly innocent player to random org the remaining players. And lynch who ever the random org chooses.
This way, our votes won't get purposefully manipulated by the mafia to lynch the innocent.

[[MAFIA] Angelo]

Mafia strategy in this game is simple.
They can either follow the influential players like a sheep or, they can control the discussion them selves.
They don't need to gamble. Mafias are... or should be extra careful of what they say. So if you find a scummy post, I would say they are more likely to be town just making a mistake.

For the town, not being able to do the usual play style analysis and not knowing who is guilty and who wasn't, only real strategy is talking a lot, analyzing kills and maybe spontaneous bandwagon.

If we don't have anyone good to vote for I suggest on leaving things on chance.
We ask one of the seemingly innocent player to random org the remaining players. And lynch who ever the random org chooses.
This way, our votes won't get purposefully manipulated by the mafia to lynch the innocent.

Might work... let's ask one of the night killed though. We can trust them more than any living player :P

no, seriously, I have my suspects, going to lay out the case later.

[Earthling]

There's some pretty simple cases, on top of what's been said before in many instances this is really enough. Luigi has been killing people at night who could show up and vote Luigi. Townies who are doing horribly and are already committed to not voting Luigi didn't get killed. Though the same could go a bit for Anne, maybe Angelo in explaining the kills, or for completeness' sake Sonny, though the latter looks really Innocent obviously. Everybody else is indistinguishably lurkery and unlikely to account for the nightkills, or even lower priority because they are clearly Innocent or not worth a lynch right now.

[White_eyes:D]

For the town, not being able to do the usual play style analysis and not knowing who is guilty and who wasn't, only real strategy is talking a lot, analyzing kills and maybe spontaneous bandwagon.

A real shame the only one that ever happened was on Connie, huh?

Talking a lot and no scummy posts by the "Extra careful" mafia is contradicting yourself....

Analyzing kills is pointless, because it comes up as a WIFOM argument. Your really just saying "Use your gut" which is not good enough for town.

Since your not going to lynch Anne, Angelo is a good pick...I don't like his Avatar, it looks arrogant.

[[MAFIA] Bertha]

Vote Angelo

Tell us who your suspects are.

[Romanic]

Can we lynch Bruno now?

My case is still the same, except that Bruno bothered to post these since I've made it:

You can find scum in different ways, my young Padawan.

GeneralHankerchief - Centurion1 (Connie) is not mentioned in the executed list.

A reply to my case. No defense at all, but it shows that he's following the game enough to realize that Centurion was missing from a list in the writeup.

Good rules.

Vote: Frank

Trying to lynch Frank, who was a possible WOG. Too easy, non committing, and he's still not making a case.

Vote: Anne

Trying to control the town?

Pfft, a vote for Anne, who's posting a lot, accusing her to "try to control the Town", which is a bad accusation. We need people looking for scum, stating who they suspects and why. It's not a mean to control the Town, it's a way to find our enemies. Something that Bruno isn't doing, he barely shows once in a while, to place a quick vote, with no reasoning backing it up.

11 posts total only. yet missing only two votes. That's more characteristic of lying low on purpose than a player who's uninterested by the game. And see the first post I've quote - He's following the game enough to spot a mistake in the tally.

Lynch Bruno

[[MAFIA] Angelo]

Vote Angelo

Tell us who your suspects are.

I will, Honey, don't you worry but you of all people should understand that I want to go eat breakfast first
Stand by

[[MAFIA] Sonny]

Romanic, "trying to control the town" is almost as silly of a reason to vote for Anne as what Johnny said. Show me alla Bruno's posts.

There's about three people I'd wanna look at to see if they're scummier than Fat Tony, includin Bruno, but I don't know as I got time.
vote: Fat Tony

[TheLastDays]

bla de blah

[Visor]

I saw that TLD. :P

[[MAFIA] Angelo]

Okay, let's look at two of our friends, Fat Tony and Bertha. Why? Well, you'll see.

Let's look at their voting patterns first:

Day 1:
Bertha votes Connie, who will be lynched later on but is nowhere near danger D1. Fat Tony forgets to vote while he's out eatin'.

Day 1a:
Bertha votes Luciano , Tony comes in late and votes Pedro who is lynched.

Day 2:
Tony votes Fingers, who will later be nght-killed and isn't in danger of getting lynched D2. This time Bertha's preoccupied with eathin' somethin'.

Day 3:
Bertha votes Joe, putting him in the lead. He will be lynched. Tony votes Sonny, coming to the rescue of poor Vinny, I'll get into this later.

Day 4:
Bertha votes Connie for being third on a bandwagon, yet Connie isn't third on any bandwagon. Connie already has a vote that round but the bandwagon is somewhere else, making Connie a nice target to blend in without actually joining a wagon, because, after all "Third on the Bandwagon a mafia is". Connie and Claudia tied. Tony's out eatin'.

Day 4a:
Tony votes Claudia for "some sort of case" (no there is none) and for being third on a bandwagon... right. Bertha votes Claudia, claiming she wanted to vote Claudia all along but messed up the two C's. Care for some beef, anyone? Claudia's lynched.

Day 5:
Tony shows up to keep us from wagoning. "I don't think this sort of bandwagon is going to help us." Who's us? The Mafia? Then you're right, a wagon is what'll take you out. Votes Frank, who's WoGbait and later WoG'd. Bertha's not there.

Day 6:
Tony plays along with probable townie Centurion1 to vote for Bobby who is never in danger of the lynch that day. Where's Bertha?

Day 7:
Bertha votes Bobby, making it look like a placeholder while she reads up on everything, yet never returns to elaborate or change her vote. Tony shows up, voting Bobby again. You really want to make sure we understand how much you dislike bandwagons, right Tony?

Day 8:
Fat Tony steps right into the trap Richie laid out and votes him. He also makes sure we know there are others out there who are great suspects to vote for, like me and my darling Anne . Bertha trips right over Tony's fat body and falls into the same trap. Johnny's lynched.

Comments:
They both voted for one player that's still alive, they both voted for two players who were lynched (that round or later) and Bertha voted for three known innocents, who were later night killed. Tony only voted for two of these but he also voted on WoG-Frank.

They both only lynched two players with their votes, Bertha only voted one, if you don't really count tiebreakers. Tony? None. Both his lynches were tiebreaker rounds and he didn't put any of these into the tie. Safe, safe, safe. They are trying not to get any atttention. Bertha makes 2 or 3 posts early on, apart from her votes, then falls silent. Tony never says a thing, except his votes.

Until last night phase which was among the most active night phases, contained some fighting between me and Earthling (I still don't get what you're sayin' but I've stopped bothering). In between all of that Tony slips in a post that makes sure we know how scummy Richie was, because in fact big Tony has garnered some attention for stumbling into this trap and needs to make sure we concentrate on someone else.

He calls Richie's move "not doing anything for the town", making sure we don't get the idea that it actually was a trap that caught us some scum and he goes on to explain that not joining bandwagons is a good thing... again. It's not. At the end of the day there needs to be a wagon on the scum and wagons are what all Mafia fear the most. I can smell your fear Tony.

Also look at their voting patterns compared to each other. They never voted each other, they rarely voted together. When they did it was a tiebreaker where there's only two choices. They only started voting together during the last two day phases. Look at their inactivity. It's almost like one of them has to stay home preparing dinner while the other goes to vote. Still, I'm not completely sure about Bertha yet but Tony's scum. In fact he's scum and then some.

vote: Fat Tony

[[MAFIA] Anne]

Vote: Fat Tony

My scummy reason for voting Fat Tony: Because this is too easy, I will win the game, lolololololololol. All the dire warnings have come true! *evil cackling*

Real reason for voting for Fat Tony: Because it will irritate Earthling and White_Eyes at the same time, and that makes my life complete. Because I'm working 40 hours in 4 days and I don't have time to do an analysis, and warned Sonny about that and that I would be doing nothing from bandwagoning here on out, so they'd better find the correct suspect. Because yesterday I discussed suspects with folks privately and mentioned why I thought Fat Tony was acting scummier than Bertha, and no less than two folks agreed with me. That's why I didn't murder them.

This kind of stuff will get me lynched, and I don't care. Scummy crack corn, and I don't care.

[[MAFIA] Richie]

Shame. I rather like White_eyes.
Tempted to vote for Anne but I still like to do my chance idea.

[[MAFIA] Anne]

By the way, I just want to say for the record, I tried very hard to kill Angelo. But y'all didn't listen. So, when he turns up scum at the end, I get a big fat fat fattie I told you so. As for who his partner is, at this point, probably Sonny. It's the only thing that explains Sonny and I still being alive when I basically have a school"girl" crush on Sally, I mean Sonny. I happen to be innocent (woe is White_eyes) so that leaves Sonny as most likely to be scum with Angelo, as they both spoke to me and agreed on Fat Tony.

I betcha if I went after either one of them today, they'd both turn on me and there would probably be enough support to lynch me. So, here's hoping I'm wrong, and Fat Tony is a gangster.

Here's to you, Sonny. The un-manliest man with the silkiest legs and smoothest face I've ever felt with my own two over-sized hands.

[[MAFIA] Fredo]

Vote: Fat Tony

I like this case.

[[MAFIA] Anne]

Vote: Fat Tony

I like this case.

You're dead, Fredo. I shot you last night, because you broke my heart.

[White_eyes:D]

Vote: Fat Tony

My scummy reason for voting Fat Tony: Because this is too easy, I will win the game, lolololololololol. All the dire warnings have come true! *evil cackling*

Real reason for voting for Fat Tony: Because it will irritate Earthling and White_Eyes at the same time, and that makes my life complete. This kind of stuff will get me lynched, and I don't care. Scummy crack corn, and I don't care.

To be honest, I knew you were going to survive and likely win, because town didn't immediately lynch you right away. Now you control a majority of the votes with two people as your lapdog's and it's towns loss.....good job

I am not really irritated, just disappointed.

[[MAFIA] Anne]

If it's any consolation, I'm going to lose this game right along with you most likely.

Also, you should see a doctor about that radiation.

[White_eyes:D]

If it's any consolation, I'm going to lose this game right along with you most likely.

Also, you should see a doctor about that radiation.

You have two people who would vote each other before you....how are you going to lose?

With only 6 people next round you control half of the votes.

So, I am sure you will....laughing at all the suckers who helped you win.

[[MAFIA] Anne]

You have two people who would vote each other before you....how are you going to lose?

Ask Earthling, he'll tell you. Because I'm townie, but I'm terrible at this game.

[[MAFIA] Anne]

I find it suspicious that Angelo and Sonny don't find me suspicious.

Where's the paranoia, guys? Seriously? All the townies in the game think I'm suspicious except you. Why is that? Is it because you KNOW I'm townie, and you think being the only people in my corner will gain you my support?

Well, you'd be right. I'm being lazy this time.

[White_eyes:D]

Knowing you, you will turn on them next round.

[[MAFIA] Fredo]

You're dead, Fredo. I shot you last night, because you broke my heart.

You deserved it. I'm a cold one.

[[MAFIA] Anne]

Knowing you, you will turn on them next round.

I've already turned on them! I tried to kill Angelo, but nobody listens. Now face the consequences.

[Earthling]

Fat Tony is not a good lynch today guys. Sure, between him and Bertha and Bruno there's average bandwagoning and lurking, nothing overly controversial or Innocent looking from any of them. But none of them make sense for explaining the nightkills as scum on their own. And there is at least one explanation for Fat Tony just voting and not saying much that is entirely consistent, boring, and unexpected. Who do you think Fat Tony is after all? (certainly not the lone remaining mafia)

Meanwhile the fact that anybody who could have possibly voted Luigi got nightkilled consistently over the past few days and everybody else was already expected to pile on Anne/Fat Tony is being ignored. The way some of you are acting it's like you think you know something we don't that Fredo/Giorgio were dedicated to killing Tony when they got nightkilled, except that isn't true, they got killed for having undecided priorities which means they could have actually swung their votes onto the real scum. It's incredibly short-sighted to just propose, say, Bertha and Fat Tony as scum together right now. Might as well be throwing out a ton of names including many dead but it's not even close to as likely as something like Luigi and Claudia (who is dead, making Luigi the only one left, though Luigi could have a living partner too)

[Earthling]

Certainly worth pointing at that Angelo is a better lynch than Tony today, by far, if support for that vote can be drummed up. He's who I would propose goes next after Luigi if that didn't end the game and he wasn't nightkilled in the meantime. And Angelo not getting nightkilled yet is a bad sign for the town, he certainly shouldn't just be allowed to bandwagon on another bad case, on Fat Tony here.

[[MAFIA] Sonny]

All's I can say is the next goomba as calls one of my cases bad gets a whop upside the nose, dead or not.

[[MAFIA] Bruno]

I find it suspicious that Angelo and Sonny don't find me suspicious.

Where's the paranoia, guys? Seriously? All the townies in the game think I'm suspicious except you. Why is that? Is it because you KNOW I'm townie, and you think being the only people in my corner will gain you my support?

Well, you'd be right. I'm being lazy this time.

Don't worry, I still think that you are suspicious.

Vote: Anne

And Romanic, that is a really bad case against me. Try harder next time.

[[MAFIA] Fat Tony]

Soooooooooo, the entire case against me consists of repeating what I've done, while talking in a spooky voice?

Top work there.

Oh, and that whole 'trap' thing - Richie, the alleged trap layer, didn't say it was a trap.

I'm insulted by the idea that me and Bertha are both mafia - as though we would go out of the way to align our votes when there was no need to. Was I or Bertha in any danger of being lynched those previous times?

You say I'm trying to not get attention? I go out of my way to avoid bandwagons, in order to give the town more options, and you say I'm trying to avoid attention? Most of your argument contradicts itself.

I know why Sonny is still alive - the mafia weren't threatened by his dogged pursuit of Vincent, and they knew he'd go after me this round.

And what do we have from you, Angelo? A history of not going after any suspects that others haven't gone after first (reverse chronological order);

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053332653

vote: Connie

I think she's scum, mainly because they defended each other so vehemently when they were tied last day phase.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053333813

unvote, vote: Bugsy

Tsk, tsk, tsk, the thing about forgetting who your suspects were doesn't really help your case

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053331161

Alright, I agree with Sonny here.

vote: Vincent

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053331289

Is that so?

What do you say to this then?

unvote: Vincent, vote: Bugsy

Whatever discussion your posts contain is always bland generalized townie advice;
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053334570

You got some points there Sonny, just some things for consideration:

Defending is a tough business as a townie, especially with the anonymous accounts where people will see anything rather as a scumtell than as the usualy playstyle of that person.

Say something? You're immediately called out for being defensive or "squirming". Say nothing? You get called out for not responding to votes against yourself. So even as a townie you just have to hope no one votes you 'cause once the votes start rolling in it'll be hard to lose them again.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053334856

Still it doesn't make sense to kill him if you don't think he's scum. Come endgame there will only be good lynchbait anyway and I'd prefer hunting scum for now over killing off townies who might be dangerous to have around later.

Then there's the scummy vote retaliation at Anne yesterday, which you conveniently forgot today.

I know why you're going after me today. It's the endgame, and the mafia just need to survive two or three more lynches. That means trying to whip discussion up around me and get a bandwagon going, maybe because one of the main suspects is your scum partner.

Vote: Angelo

[Earthling]

Bruno you should vote for Angelo. Or more specifically, it's an absurdly terrible vote to not vote for one of Angelo or Fat Tony, the lynch today is between Fat Tony and Angelo and voting for a third person who won't get lynched is just saying "Hey, look at me, I'm active but refuse to take a stance or contribute to the town."

Of course you should vote for Angelo on top of that because there's a better chance he's a scum but you've got to at least choose one of the two.

Emilio may be getting WoG'd but in retrospect that's not so bad as that will likely save us a day of fake endings and nonsense no matter what and I'd be happy with that at this point.