An interesting take on Islam

[Fragony]

Worth sharing imho as it's from the kitchen and pretty harsh. As most of the right won't accept anything other than a islamic superiority complex it's worth to consider.

http://www.hudson-ny.org/2111/muslim...iority-complex

Do I have things completely mixed up? Never considered this

edit: Mostly interested in the Islam seeking comfirmation, que. There is a certain innocence in what I regard to be pretty damn evil

[Cute Wolf]

very very true, here, most muslims still claim that Neil Armstrong and Barrack Obama are muslim....

[Fragony]

very very true, here, most muslims still claim that Neil Armstrong and Barrack Obama are muslim....

Well he is but that's ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGdkqfBICw

The muslim world is inferior to the west, glad some agree. Muslims aren't really inferior to us they can adopt in a civilisation if they really try

[Don Corleone]

I don't think this is unique to Islam. Many see affirmation in their principles being adopted by their opposition... Zell_Miller anyone?

Just curious how many Americans & Europeans are converting to Islam though...

[Hax]

Just curious how many Americans & Europeans are converting to Islam though...

Not many.

Now, as for my reply:


The writer of the article you linked to is Khaled Montaser. A quick search on Google gave me his Arab website which turned up very little information. So far, I only know that he's probably Egyptian and holds a doctorate degree in something (perhaps engineering, but that may be another dr. Khaled Montaser).

Khaled Montaser starts the article with something of an hypothesis: "(us) Muslims suffer from a collective inferiority complex".

Ah. This raises some interesting questions:
1) Is there a collective Islamic identity to which all Muslims can conform, regardless of sect or cultural background? Perhaps. This is probably not the place to ask a question like this. However, even basic theological issues have met with very little enthousiastic response from several places in the Islamic world. For now, only fringe groups seek the re-establishment of the Caliphate or the creation of a single Islamic state. Even Islamist politicians have looked for something of a post-Nasser, Islamic-ish national state and not a supranational Islamic state.

If we take this question a little further, could we suggest that Muslims from all over the globe possess some kind of mutual state of mind? This is something that right-wing, dare I say "anti-Islamic" politicians and websites have suggested in the past and continue to do so in the present; that the Islamic world forms some sort of bloc and that Persian Muslims seek to achieve the same things as Somali, Moroccan, American and Palestinian Muslims. What would a Persian Muslim say about the ongoing civil war in Somalia? What would a Somali say about the 9/11 attacks? What would an American Muslim say about the troubles of integration in Europe? What would a Moroccan say about the Arab-Israeli conflict? What would a Palestinian Christian say about the Green Revolution? Thinking about this kind of stuff poses a next question:

2) Is the Islamic inferiority complex that Khaled Montaser refers to not rather something of an Arab inferiority complex. It would seem to me that a Turkish Muslim hardly cares about the superiority of the Islamic world a thousand years ago and its supposed decline in the 13th century as much as an Arab Muslim would. I do not disagree with Khaled Montaser's assessment, I just think that he drew the wrong conclusions. As far as I'm aware, he is an Egyptian, this being interesting because Egypt has been in quite some turmoil recently.

I think that the inferiority complex he referred to is something that is present in modern Arab culture, not in Islamic culture. I also think that the inferiority complex can be linked to two events in general:

- The post-colonialist Arab world; after the British, French and Italians left, there was something of a political void. The western powers divided the countries, King Feisal's family started to rule in the ex-mandates of Trans-Jordan, Iraq and Syria, and we all know what happened in Iraq, don't we? Same goes for Morocco and Tunisia, although their problems were far less troubling than those in Algeria, that was naturally a French département, and not just a colony. The post-traumatic stress of the post-colonialist world (I can't possibly use the word "post" more often than this) led to the initialisation of some sort of defense mechanism that functioned in two ways:
1) Arab nationalism, popularised by leaders such as Nasser and Sadat in Egypt, and Saddam Hussein and the Ba'ath party in Iraq and Syria.
2) Islamism, popularised by influential theologians such as al-Afghani and Sayyid Qutb.

(Of course, there is also Khomeini-ist Islamism, but that is so particular to Iran that it wouldn't function in any other place, save only parts of Iraq, possibly.)

We have seen Arab nationalism fail. We are seeing Islamism is failing. Even the supposedly fanatical Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt doesn't hate democracy, something that Islamist parties have often been accused of doing.

The second event I was referring to is linked to the failure of Arab nationalism. This is the failure of the Arab states to drive Israel into the sea. The loss of the 1948 war, and then again the Six-Day War and the loss of Jerusalem and the Golan Heights was something of a shock to Arab honour. In Nasser's nationalisation of the Suez Canal there was some sort of hope, but the apparent failure of the Nasserites to destroy Israel led to a dramatic loss of popular support for the Arab nationalists.


So the inferiority complex is not necessarily linked with Islamic culture, it is something of a 20th century Arab thing, who were collectively traumatised by the horrors of the struggle for liberation, the subsequent supposed betrayal by the colonialist forces and finally the political void that was filled up by greedy politicians who eagerly dealt with the west while a large part of the population was unable to voice their grievances.

One final remark that irked me in dr. Montaser's article:

[in the Muslim world] wherein no new scientific inventions have appeared in the last 500 years.

This severely underestimates the scientific progress made under the Ottomans, Safavids and Qajars. It's a form of Arabo-centrism that only underlines my point and appears to confirm the fact that dr. Montaser is writing from an Arab and not a Muslim perspective.

[Fragony]

Glad you stopped by, that us much more than could ask for as I kinda trolled , but would you agree with me when I say that islamism is really arab nationalism in a relgious disguise.

[InsaneApache]

Not many.

Now, as for my reply:


The writer of the article you linked to is Khaled Montaser. A quick search on Google gave me his Arab website which turned up very little information. So far, I only know that he's probably Egyptian and holds a doctorate degree in something (perhaps engineering, but that may be another dr. Khaled Montaser).

Khaled Montaser starts the article with something of an hypothesis: "(us) Muslims suffer from a collective inferiority complex".

Ah. This raises some interesting questions:
1) Is there a collective Islamic identity to which all Muslims can conform, regardless of sect or cultural background? Perhaps. This is probably not the place to ask a question like this. However, even basic theological issues have met with very little enthousiastic response from several places in the Islamic world. For now, only fringe groups seek the re-establishment of the Caliphate or the creation of a single Islamic state. Even Islamist politicians have looked for something of a post-Nasser, Islamic-ish national state and not a supranational Islamic state.

If we take this question a little further, could we suggest that Muslims from all over the globe possess some kind of mutual state of mind? This is something that right-wing, dare I say "anti-Islamic" politicians and websites have suggested in the past and continue to do so in the present; that the Islamic world forms some sort of bloc and that Persian Muslims seek to achieve the same things as Somali, Moroccan, American and Palestinian Muslims. What would a Persian Muslim say about the ongoing civil war in Somalia? What would a Somali say about the 9/11 attacks? What would an American Muslim say about the troubles of integration in Europe? What would a Moroccan say about the Arab-Israeli conflict? What would a Palestinian Christian say about the Green Revolution? Thinking about this kind of stuff poses a next question:

2) Is the Islamic inferiority complex that Khaled Montaser refers to not rather something of an Arab inferiority complex. It would seem to me that a Turkish Muslim hardly cares about the superiority of the Islamic world a thousand years ago and its supposed decline in the 13th century as much as an Arab Muslim would. I do not disagree with Khaled Montaser's assessment, I just think that he drew the wrong conclusions. As far as I'm aware, he is an Egyptian, this being interesting because Egypt has been in quite some turmoil recently.

I think that the inferiority complex he referred to is something that is present in modern Arab culture, not in Islamic culture. I also think that the inferiority complex can be linked to two events in general:

- The post-colonialist Arab world; after the British, French and Italians left, there was something of a political void. The western powers divided the countries, King Feisal's family started to rule in the ex-mandates of Trans-Jordan, Iraq and Syria, and we all know what happened in Iraq, don't we? Same goes for Morocco and Tunisia, although their problems were far less troubling than those in Algeria, that was naturally a French département, and not just a colony. The post-traumatic stress of the post-colonialist world (I can't possibly use the word "post" more often than this) led to the initialisation of some sort of defense mechanism that functioned in two ways:
1) Arab nationalism, popularised by leaders such as Nasser and Sadat in Egypt, and Saddam Hussein and the Ba'ath party in Iraq and Syria.
2) Islamism, popularised by influential theologians such as al-Afghani and Sayyid Qutb.

(Of course, there is also Khomeini-ist Islamism, but that is so particular to Iran that it wouldn't function in any other place, save only parts of Iraq, possibly.)

We have seen Arab nationalism fail. We are seeing Islamism is failing. Even the supposedly fanatical Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt doesn't hate democracy, something that Islamist parties have often been accused of doing.

The second event I was referring to is linked to the failure of Arab nationalism. This is the failure of the Arab states to drive Israel into the sea. The loss of the 1948 war, and then again the Six-Day War and the loss of Jerusalem and the Golan Heights was something of a shock to Arab honour. In Nasser's nationalisation of the Suez Canal there was some sort of hope, but the apparent failure of the Nasserites to destroy Israel led to a dramatic loss of popular support for the Arab nationalists.


So the inferiority complex is not necessarily linked with Islamic culture, it is something of a 20th century Arab thing, who were collectively traumatised by the horrors of the struggle for liberation, the subsequent supposed betrayal by the colonialist forces and finally the political void that was filled up by greedy politicians who eagerly dealt with the west while a large part of the population was unable to voice their grievances.

One final remark that irked me in dr. Montaser's article:

This severely underestimates the scientific progress made under the Ottomans, Safavids and Qajars. It's a form of Arabo-centrism that only underlines my point and appears to confirm the fact that dr. Montaser is writing from an Arab and not a Muslim perspective.

Something that is overlooked continually is that Trans-Jorden incorporated Palestine. About time one of out politicians did a google methinks.

Great post BTW

[Hax]

but would you agree with me when I say that islamism is really arab nationalism in a relgious disguise.

Possible. As far as my personal analysis goes, I've found that Islamism isn't necessarily Arab nationalism as it is something of Middle Eastern nationalism. But I would agree with you in that it is not so much a religious struggle as it is the struggle to find an identity somewhere.

It's pretty complicated, I think. I'll read a book about it before going to bed, maybe that'll help.

[Strike For The South]

I have two things

I don't belive in a monolithic muslim community
Follow the money. It's always about the money

As per the replys so far TL;DR

[Skullheadhq]

very very true, here, most muslims still claim that [...] and Barrack Obama are muslim....

Implying he isn't :D

[Cute Wolf]

Implying he isn't :D

hah? you believe Obama is secretly a muslim?

[TheLastDays]

Interesting article and very interesting post, Hax.

I'm by no means an expert on Islam, I'm still working hard to understand my own faith in a deeper way but what Hax suggests does sound logical. The inferiority complex the author claims makes more sense as a thing of traditional Arab countries. I can certainly say that it isn't (at least not visibly) present in my Muslim friends as they are living in countries that weren't traditionally following Islam. I mean the whole idea of connecting my identity with the islamic nationalism makes no sense when I don't have a real bond with an islamic nation.

[Papewaio]

Following the money, the more extreme followers are in the oil rich countries. With exported oil funded hardline schools the beliefs have spread. However the leaders in the oil rich countries want control of the wealth, they will not want a USA... United States of Arabia and give up their oil rich lifestyles.

Turkey which has wealth not based on oil can be seen to be a different culture. I'd say the difference is that for Turkey's wealth it relies on a more educated populace as does Tunisa. Education does not make a despots day as the educated are far more rebellious and organised.