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Thread: Suggestions for the next TW game

  1. #91

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Quote Originally Posted by Noncommunist View Post
    Thanks! I went to Hawaii earlier this year on a Spring Term where we did lots of snorkeling and scuba diving and on the way, learned a bit about Hawaii and its history.
    Cool! Yeah I haven't actually studied Hawaiian history, but I studied Easter Island and Polynesia for my senior project. Really interesting stuff! It's a pity such rich cultures lived in such small areas with so few resources!

  2. #92
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Yes, think of the fantasy units. Pineapple bombs. Bulletproof grass skirts. Lots of naked people. It would be...really pathetic.


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  3. #93
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    From the fourth post in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    ... let's keep this thread clean - constructive comments only...

  4. #94

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir View Post
    Yes, think of the fantasy units. Pineapple bombs. Bulletproof grass skirts. Lots of naked people. It would be...really pathetic.
    I can never tell whether or not you're joking.


    On a side note (back to the original topic)...it occured to me, why hasn't CA done any Total War games set in ancient times, like Egypt, Greece, Persia, etc...? I mean, maybe the diversity of the races would be hard, but I'm sure you could do a Shogun-style game focused on just the Greek city-states, or during some of the middle kingdom wars in Egypt/etc...

  5. #95
    Member Member I_damian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Someone in the thread said we wouldn't be able to mod out units if another Rome was made. Why is that? Because of STEAM?
    EBII has finally released. All hail the EBII team!

  6. #96

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Quote Originally Posted by I_damian View Post
    Someone in the thread said we wouldn't be able to mod out units if another Rome was made. Why is that? Because of STEAM?
    Nothaving played RTW...why? What units do people frequently mod-out?

    And yeah STEAM would likely hamper any sort of modding ability, especially if carried over multiplayer, as it would be checking files when logged-in or updating.

  7. #97
    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    I don't know about steam interfering, but from what I read around, TW games became less and less moddable with new releases...

  8. #98
    Member Member I_damian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Quote Originally Posted by NightwindKing View Post
    Nothaving played RTW...why? What units do people frequently mod-out?

    And yeah STEAM would likely hamper any sort of modding ability, especially if carried over multiplayer, as it would be checking files when logged-in or updating.
    Well, Rome takes place between 272 bc - 14 ad. There's an Egyptian faction that use chariots and units with names like "pharaoh's spearmen", the type of units you might have seen the Egyptian pharaoh's using around 1000 bc. There shouldn't even be an Egyptian faction in this period. It should have been a Greek faction called Ptolemaioi. The barbarian factions are all just bare chested savages, you can have the Roman infantry wearing the typical hollywood type armour (like the soldiers in Gladiator wore in the battle against the Germans) in 250 bc, even though that armour didn't appear until something like 100 ad. The original Rome: Total War was an absolute mess.

    A mod called EB fixed all of this.

    Also, Rome suffered from the lightning fast battles like Shogun 2 does, although in Rome they were about 100% quicker than in Shogun 2. You would literally have about 10 seconds of combat before the entire enemy line crumbled and ran. Generals kamikaze themselves in to your spearmen ahead of their entire army, killing themselves right at the start of the battle. Archers were completely lethal. In Shogun 2, a volley from a unit of even the best samurai archers against the poorest unit, ashigaru, will at absolute best kill 10 guys. In Rome, 2-3 volleys could wipe out an entire unit of the heaviest infantry. I've had battles where I've slaughtered an entire enemy army with about 4 units of archers, 2000 enemy killed to 1 of my own.

    I could go on all day. Without mods that game wouldn't be worth $1.
    Last edited by I_damian; 08-16-2011 at 21:47.
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  9. #99
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    And yet with all of the mods out there, RTW is still hot property on the market. Lots of people still play it.

    Same goes with M2TW, a much improved engine allowing more modding.
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  10. #100
    Member Member I_damian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval View Post
    And yet with all of the mods out there, RTW is still hot property on the market. Lots of people still play it.

    Same goes with M2TW, a much improved engine allowing more modding.
    Of course, but EB is the only mod for Rome worth playing.

    I'm going to buy M2 EB2 is released.
    EBII has finally released. All hail the EBII team!

  11. #101

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Quote Originally Posted by I_damian View Post
    Well, Rome takes place between 272 bc - 14 ad. There's an Egyptian faction that use chariots and units with names like "pharaoh's spearmen", the type of units you might have seen the Egyptian pharaoh's using around 1000 bc. There shouldn't even be an Egyptian faction in this period. It should have been a Greek faction called Ptolemaioi. The barbarian factions are all just bare chested savages, you can have the Roman infantry wearing the typical hollywood type armour (like the soldiers in Gladiator wore in the battle against the Germans) in 250 bc, even though that armour didn't appear until something like 100 ad. The original Rome: Total War was an absolute mess.

    A mod called EB fixed all of this.

    Also, Rome suffered from the lightning fast battles like Shogun 2 does, although in Rome they were about 100% quicker than in Shogun 2. You would literally have about 10 seconds of combat before the entire enemy line crumbled and ran. Generals kamikaze themselves in to your spearmen ahead of their entire army, killing themselves right at the start of the battle. Archers were completely lethal. In Shogun 2, a volley from a unit of even the best samurai archers against the poorest unit, ashigaru, will at absolute best kill 10 guys. In Rome, 2-3 volleys could wipe out an entire unit of the heaviest infantry. I've had battles where I've slaughtered an entire enemy army with about 4 units of archers, 2000 enemy killed to 1 of my own.

    I could go on all day. Without mods that game wouldn't be worth $1.
    Gotcha. Yeah that would be...frustrating.

    I actually don't find the speed of battles in Shogun all that bad. I think the hour time limit is ridiculous, because no battle will ever go on that long, but whatever. It's there.

    The only change I'd like to make is (and maybe this is because I've only played on Hard so far), the enemy AI stop falling for lure/pincer traps. So far Just about every battle that I've won, I have a 'weak' center and pull the enemy in, then flank their sides with anchoring units and crush them. Maybe they could like, scout a bit, or spread out more, or...I dunno. Not attach head-on?

  12. #102
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    I find the battles in S2TW only slightly fast, if the speed is toned down a bit then I think a suitable equilibrium is reached.
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  13. #103
    Equicidal Maniac Member slashandburn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Mediterranean: Total War, Game starts 5000 BC with tribes founding cities in the fertile crescent, game continues until 1800 with full tech tree and culture trees. You would literally build your culture, religion ,and social structure from despotism to the industrial era. You would be able to develop your army and soldiers across the centuries from clubs and spears to rifled muskets and artillery. You could have any culture or units you wanted and control the civilization's progress. New civilizations would arise at certain points with certain technology and buildings limited by year to prevent clubmen fighting knights and other silly things. Game map would expand and at certain key years such as 3000 BC, 1000BC, 721BC,0 AD, 476 Ad, and more would be trigger years where the map and other things would change to represent the changes that have occurred.
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  14. #104

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir View Post
    Yes, think of the fantasy units. Pineapple bombs. Bulletproof grass skirts. Lots of naked people. It would be...really pathetic.
    While I suppose fantasy units could be an issue, I'd imagine that there would be enough real units to draw upon. After all, at that point, some of the Hawaiians were using European arms. So I suppose it would be a similar mechanic to Shogun where trade with Europeans gives some edges in combat at the cost of some social unrest, disease, and potentially actual involvement.(unlike Shogun)

  15. #105

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Quote Originally Posted by Noncommunist View Post
    While I suppose fantasy units could be an issue, I'd imagine that there would be enough real units to draw upon. After all, at that point, some of the Hawaiians were using European arms. So I suppose it would be a similar mechanic to Shogun where trade with Europeans gives some edges in combat at the cost of some social unrest, disease, and potentially actual involvement.(unlike Shogun)
    Definitely.

    Actually I can see most of the unique units coming into play in the form of agents. You could add a healer-type unit that would increase the replenishment rate of the army they're in, etc...

  16. #106
    King of kemet Member Hamata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    I say ancient greece imagine hoplites smashing into eachothers sheild walls and catapults and balistas on the warscape engine

  17. #107

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    I've refrained from answering for a couple months...I couldn't really come up with anything in particular I want to see. But now having thought about it some more. It seems like CA has come to a branching point. They either need to focus on SP campaign or more focus on the MP aspect. Unit balancing for requisition points, diversity in units, perhaps some more polishing of a simplified campaign system for MP.

    With that said, I think the money is in multiplayer. Honestly, I prefer a deep campaign system, and right now am having a blast playing a RTR hotseat campaign with a couple friends. Its slow but very rewarding for me. I'm a bit of a grognard though and realize I'm the exception to the rule. (I still play Close Combat, for instance) So because of that, I think advanced MP battles with a simpler (think the board game Risk) campaign system are where the money is. Because of this I would like to see CA embrace mobile devices. I think a client for iOS and Android would be awesome.

    Sent from my iPhone...
    Last edited by Risasi; 08-19-2011 at 01:02.

  18. #108

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Islander total war would be a disaster.When Shogun 2 was in the making,many of you complained you didnt want shogun 2.Islander is nothing more than bad.A remake of NTW will be nice,because they made several mistakes in the game.French units dont carry the golden eagle.Lancers like chev ones were never used,and Curraisers were the main cavarly units of the french army.They did a lot of injustice,I mean come on,Napoleon just didn't those units,he used a whole vairtey of them.The Middle guard is missing,And ceratinaly I am not impressed.,and could have made russia a sepearte campaign,aslo the french fired in a different way.I would like to see these things refixed..And now they're making Dinosaur total war,which sounds bad.I am not buying it.I mena,its just so easy for CA to fix these little mistakes.
    Last edited by Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout; 08-19-2011 at 14:30.

  19. #109
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Quote Originally Posted by Takeda Shogunate View Post
    Lancers like chev ones were never used,...
    Really? Tell that to the Scots Greys. What was wrong with the representation of the Chevaux Legers Lanciers in NTW?

    and Curraisers were the main cavarly units of the french army.
    Cuirassiers were the heavy cavalry and are represented in NTW, along with most of the other types of cavalry. I would not describe them as "main" - they were the most expensive to equip (needed the heaviest horses) so were sometimes scarce. They saw almost no action in Spain, for example.

    And now they're making Dinosaur total war,which sounds bad.I am not buying it.I mena,its just so easy for CA to fix these little mistakes.
    I think Dinosaur Total War was a joke (was it April 1)?

  20. #110
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    I think Dinosaur Total War was a joke (was it April 1)?
    Say it ain't so!!
    This space intentionally left blank

  21. #111

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Quote Originally Posted by Risasi View Post
    I've refrained from answering for a couple months...I couldn't really come up with anything in particular I want to see. But now having thought about it some more. It seems like CA has come to a branching point. They either need to focus on SP campaign or more focus on the MP aspect. Unit balancing for requisition points, diversity in units, perhaps some more polishing of a simplified campaign system for MP.

    With that said, I think the money is in multiplayer. Honestly, I prefer a deep campaign system, and right now am having a blast playing a RTR hotseat campaign with a couple friends. Its slow but very rewarding for me. I'm a bit of a grognard though and realize I'm the exception to the rule. (I still play Close Combat, for instance) So because of that, I think advanced MP battles with a simpler (think the board game Risk) campaign system are where the money is. Because of this I would like to see CA embrace mobile devices. I think a client for iOS and Android would be awesome.

    Sent from my iPhone...
    No offense meant, but I think this is a terrible idea. Maybe Im misunderstanding you...I dont mean increased focus on multiplayer is bad, but that the PC is one of the few consoles that still A: caters to strategy gamers and B: caters to single-player gamers.
    Look what's become of Age of Empires. The new online one seems to be getting bad reviews. In my mind making a game solely based around online play alienates most of the gamer base thats into strategy games.
    Now I definitely think the next one should have BETTER multiplayer and more of a refined and focused system (esp multiplayer campaign mode), but I would hope that CA will not skimp on, ignore, or otherwise give the short end of the stick to multiplayer. Every game genre and every series has its focus, it's 'path' and type, if you will. And almost every time a series steps outside of that, it fails terribly, and appeals only to the most die-hard fans who like the series simply for the brand name.
    I'm not really going to go into tons of explanation, but case in point: the Metroid series. The Age of Empires series. The Sims series. The Legend of Zelda series. The LEgacy of Kain series. Etc. I dont understand why developers keep taking these big leaps of faith and then being surprised when it doesnt work out: history shows plenty of examples...let's stick with what works please.

    Better MP definitely. That would be good. But please, PLEASE CA do NOT make the next game multiplayer only, or make it so things like units and such are multiplayer only, or any of the terrible and much-hated design changes that Blizzard, Microsoft, etc... have made.

  22. #112

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    Really? Tell that to the Scots Greys. What was wrong with the representation of the Chevaux Legers Lanciers in NTW?


    Cuirassiers were the heavy cavalry and are represented in NTW, along with most of the other types of cavalry. I would not describe them as "main" - they were the most expensive to equip (needed the heaviest horses) so were sometimes scarce. They saw almost no action in Spain, for example.



    I think Dinosaur Total War was a joke (was it April 1)?
    They're doing it for real.

    They were used in Napoleon's battles.But they were never represented as main units.When you acess the Napoleonic army,you only get those lancers.You cant make a full army with just one Currasier.In Napoleon's time,you would have masses of them as Main units.CA did a bad job of it.,

    They were simply not used in history.It was the polish guard lancers along with the dutch.Sur ethey would have some action,but it is not the main units of the french lancers as well.
    Last edited by Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout; 08-20-2011 at 14:22.

  23. #113

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Quote Originally Posted by NightwindKing View Post
    No offense meant, but I think this is a terrible idea. Maybe Im misunderstanding you...I dont mean increased focus on multiplayer is bad, but that the PC is one of the few consoles that still A: caters to strategy gamers and B: caters to single-player gamers.
    Look what's become of Age of Empires. The new online one seems to be getting bad reviews. In my mind making a game solely based around online play alienates most of the gamer base thats into strategy games.
    Now I definitely think the next one should have BETTER multiplayer and more of a refined and focused system (esp multiplayer campaign mode), but I would hope that CA will not skimp on, ignore, or otherwise give the short end of the stick to multiplayer. Every game genre and every series has its focus, it's 'path' and type, if you will. And almost every time a series steps outside of that, it fails terribly, and appeals only to the most die-hard fans who like the series simply for the brand name.
    I'm not really going to go into tons of explanation, but case in point: the Metroid series. The Age of Empires series. The Sims series. The Legend of Zelda series. The LEgacy of Kain series. Etc. I dont understand why developers keep taking these big leaps of faith and then being surprised when it doesnt work out: history shows plenty of examples...let's stick with what works please.

    Better MP definitely. That would be good. But please, PLEASE CA do NOT make the next game multiplayer only, or make it so things like units and such are multiplayer only, or any of the terrible and much-hated design changes that Blizzard, Microsoft, etc... have made.
    Age of Empires 2 ,the conqerues expanison was a good game,espcially with the custom campagins.I hate the new age of empirers,it seems a bad take.

  24. #114
    King of kemet Member Hamata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Age of empires online? more like age of empires the cartoon edition lol
    Last edited by Hamata; 08-20-2011 at 17:24.

  25. #115

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Definitely. What a terrible way for the series to die! Either shoot it and be merciful or let it live out its days in glory! Don't poison it! lol

    But back to TW...

  26. #116
    Member caspian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    I would like the next total war game to be both historical and fantasy. So I thought why not base it on mythology, specifically Norse Mythology?
    It could be called:
    Myth: Total War
    Asgard: Total War or
    Runes: Total War or
    Nine Worlds: Total War

    There could be Nine Factions:
    Asgard (greater gods)
    Vanaheim (lesser gods)
    Midgard (vikings)
    Alfheim (elves)
    Jotunheim (giants)
    Svartalheim (dwarves)
    Niflheim (people of myst)
    Muspellheim (people of fire)
    Helheim (demons)

    The campaign map could be like the old Master of Magic game map. Normal World map but in different points you could travel to other worlds. For example in the Midgard Map, your army can move to a sacred grove and from there you can travel to Asgard, and there are twenty sacred groves scattered all over Midgard.

    Of course in the battles you could have items, heroes, magic.
    Imagine giving the Sword of Surtr to King Cnut as he leads the viking assault on Asgard to slay the All-Father!

  27. #117

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Nah.I would love the 30 years war.

  28. #118

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    Anything I would buy i.e. (a) something that works (e.g. not like Rome); (b) not on Steam; (c) ideally something set in Ancient Greece (but don't really care so long as (a) and (b) are true).

  29. #119
    ridiculously suspicious Member TheLastDays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    You can probably forget about (b) right away.
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  30. #120

    Default Re: Suggestions for the next TW game

    I think it should be Medieval 3. I was posting this in the Gamespot forum, too - Medieval 3 just makes more sense to me than Rome 2. Here's why;

    1. Rome sacrifices sea battles. Sorry, but ramming ships isn't really that entertaining to me. Shogun is just barely tolerable - anything less than that and it would be boring.
    2. Rome focuses only on Europe, where Medieval allows for exploration of other places (America/Asia).
    3. Crusades/Jihads add an unstable element to the game that makes it compelling and unique.
    4. More depth to the Medieval era (Many countries vs. Many countries, as opposed to Rome vs. Everyone because they don't like non-Romans and feel compelled to civilize them).
    5. More opportunities for technological advancement, among other things. The only thing that really changed in the Roman era was the use of battle tactics. In Medieval europe, everything was changing, be it religion, techonology, various renegade factions, etc...
    6. It wouldn't make any sense for a barbarian faction to be researching... well, anything really - so streamlined/general tech trees for all factions would be out. One of the major parts of the last few games (tech trees) would have to be altered or removed completely.

    These are just a few of the things I can think of at the moment, but I think the trend is pretty clear. You can just do more with Medieval than you can with Rome. Sure, Rome TW2 would probably still be fun, and maybe just as good if;

    1. Removal of sea battles let them focus on streamlining land battles?
    2. The loss of tech trees allowed for more unique units?
    3. More factions overall?
    4. Unique gameplay elements that I can't think of?

    It just seems to me that, with the way these games have been going, Rome would simply be a step backward for the series. You've built up all of these cool new ideas for the games, only to have them have to be changed or removed (not to mention one of the most anticipated things to be added, sea battles, would just not be feasible [or fun] in that age). Medieval is just more chaotic than Rome and allows for more wiggle room in terms of gameplay.

    And the argument that "Rome is due for an update, so it has to be Rome" is a fallacious one. Medieval 2 was just an updated Rome, and all of these new gameplay implementations came from Empire. I don't want to say it was a new engine completely, as it could have just easily been a heavily modified Medieval 2, but Medieval 2 is just as deserving of a reboot as Rome, if not more because of what can be done. I really don't think CA should be developing new titles because "they need to be done because that's how we developed them and we only go in order".
    Last edited by Madae; 09-22-2011 at 16:05.

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