roman legionary and infantry

**Pedro** · 05-02-2011, 06:00

well i want to comment this: why the roman legionare are so polemic? i mean they conquered a lot but in the game there is a lot of unit better , and everyone knows they were the best infantry !! i didnt want to toned up in game and be more easiest with the romans i just want to said that the thigs that make him the best wasnt the equipment (it was very good but not my point) wanst the brilliant generals and wanst the courage beacuse there was a lot brave men in ancient , there was only one thig , the most important thig in the roman society = the discipline and the pragmatism !!! that made they conquer and won ! that is why i think that the romans mut have one of the best morale and stamina like infantry , stamina because they fight in turns the front line soldier wen was tired goes to the backward an that way every one rest in the fight that discipline havent the gauls and other so the were excellent and brave soldiers but fight alone not as a group so they tired earlier than a legionare. when i read about naval battles wiht cartaghe i realized the pragmatism of the romans they werent a sea people so they lose every battle against the cartaginian navy but in the field they win ! so they invent : boarding the ships wiht hooks and the roman infantry won in the sea !!! so that makes the roman infantry extremely flexible and adaptable no like the phalanx and the hoplites or the spearmen . so i think better way is to toned up the morale and the stamina and the others stast you decided becuase i believe with a better morale and stamina they could be more effective in close and long time battles.

**Ca Putt** · 05-02-2011, 13:05

sorry chap but you're compareing roman legionaries with elites of other factions, which is just wrong. you have to compare them with units with a similar price and similar standing - Hoplitai not epilektoi, Pezhetairoi not Argyraspidai, Dugunthiz not Xorjonoz Dreugondijoz, bataroas not Soldurus, Dorkim Liby-Ponnim Kbedim not
Dorkim Leebi-Feenikim Aloophim... the latter mentioned are either Nobles or senior Veterans, often both. Cohors reformata are "raw recruits" of the middle class.
because if you do so you will see that roman heavy infantry is often more cost efficient and most of the time much heavier than their counterpart in other factions. and please Cohors reformata has moral 14(15 would be elite and there are elites with less ;) ) have both highly trained and diciplined, are hardy, have an AP Pilum, 10 armor, 4 shield, what else do you need?!!? a falx as secondary weapon? fear effect? two hitpoints?

**moonburn** · 05-02-2011, 14:47

you can´t compare warriors with soldiers warriors had alot more to loose or gain while the roman soldiers where just better then their counterpart plebeians but not the elites

for instance a dunaminaca unit was probably never more then 2.000 men while the romans could loose 10.000 and next year they would return because they had the manpower

rome´s secret was manpower they had enough to replace lost armies while for instance the spartans in their final days couldn´t even amass 700 hoplites and had to rely on those "citizens" who hadn´t been able to finish the agoge or couldn´t pay for their mess seats so a spartan army in the end was around 10% spartiates 30% homoi and 60% slaves and others conscripted in a hurry to serve rather as haploi or skirmishers and thats around what you can imagine in a regular army of non romans so no you can´t compare the 10% "elites" with the regular roman raw recruit

cesar took 10 years in gaul building up his army the entire roman politics revolves around the "veterans" because the freshly recruited legionaire wasn´t as effective as people think they where just better then the fresh recruit of other people but never better then the veterans of other people and certainly not better then the elites who where born and raised to war (also the romans always had a choice to enter gaul and until cesar never did because they knew they could be outnumbered cesar took big gambling on his divide and conquer politics and in the end had to kill 1million people and enslave 2 millions before it was done and at the time the population in italy was around 3 millions)

romans = best rank and file (cost effective) not elite units