AI money script

[SneakyNinja]

My first post in here but i looked through the FAQ and searched the forum before i posted so sorry if it has been asked before


In EBII what is being done about the AI finances. Am i right that in EB the script had to give them a certain (10k?) amount of money a turn to prevent them from all going bankrupt due to the increase in unit upkeep from RTW. If I'm right about that what is being done about that for EBII, will the AI factions be able to properly manage their empires due to advancements in the engine or scripting or will we see a similar script again. It was one of the things that, although i could see why it had to be done, annoyed me as it seemed to be an advantage for the other factions although i agree with the standard arguement that it was money as a replacement for real intelligence (or not in my case).

If it's to early for the team to comment on this because of testing needed could you prehaps mention some of the possibilitys you're considering

thank you and sorry if i've got anything wrong or that this has already been answered. And anyway if it has it could be worse, i could have asked about Lorica Segmentata

[Moros]

It's quite legit question don't worry.

Now will we use a money script for the AI? Well that will depend. First of all we'll have to find out first whether they will need it. We're (well mostly Foot) quite busy with setting up the trade and economy of the campaign. Note that also some units were very much expensive as we needed to limit their numbers while this can now be solved thanks to recruitment pools. Possibly the AI will not need a money script and if it possibly does we'll probably wouldn't be using a fixed money bonus.

Either way no decision as of yet has been taken. But we'll keep you informed in the future with the use of our previews, twitter,...

Thanks for the interest in our project and also for checking the Faq and stuff before posting.

[bobbin]

Another thing to not is that even if we do use a money script the worst of its side effects, the endless spamming of units, will be gone or at least greatly reduced.

[Ichon]

I think the chances are high the AI will need some sort of money script. How much and exactly what form it takes is more difficult. Especially how EB2 seems to be changing what buildings do and represent. I think AI might need some major tweaking to be building every turn and not fall far behind. Even if the cost of the buildings is nominally very low.

For more serious money script that gives AI a slight edge with amount of units it can afford since AI misuses at least 1/3 of its units- I'd prefer a bonus per city. That way the bonus should be able to be made higher or lower depending on difficulty level. Raising king's purse or any other constant type of bonus tends to lead to problems.

Also that would work easier with any scripts that give a further bonus for controlling an entire trade route for example though last I read EB2 is not going to have any titles or ancillaries for trade routes but just give constant trade bonus if the required regions are controlled as the reward- nothing special above that level of income.

Ideally with higher level of money per difficulty level and pools of MTW2 normal difficulty would see AI spending most of its money and recruiting near max. Hard would see full pools depleted and a few more agents. VH would have max agents and much more AI fleets as well.

There are many issues though- since AI does get much lower return from fleets than a human player and they are a large upkeep drain you will want AI to build some fleets on normal difficulty but on VH human player should have to invest significant to control the seas and if AI is getting higher bonus per city it can afford higher upkeep of fleets that otherwise don't do much for the AI. Just that is partially a CAI problem and not just money scripts. Although a lot of balancing is going to have to be done anyway so why not?

[fomalhaut]

The main issues of the money script in EB, namely spamming in general but especially of elites, will be eliminated due to the recruitment system. so if the AI needs money, let em!

[ayekides]

There is an economy script that I've played around with that may be of interest, its called "Carl - the Taxman." From my experience with it in a submod for Third Age Total War(TATW) it works pretty effectively. I believe it also has variations for Stainless Steel and Call of Warhammer. Also variations that give extra gold and even armies to nations as they are reduced closer to 1 city. It also claims to help reduce stack spam.

Here is the link to the actual resource the creator, Fred Putz, has put up.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=397155

And the version for TATW with some more info.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=428184

Perhaps its worth checking out to see if it would help, or could be made compatable in the future.

[B-Wing]

I've only played a few factions in EB1 (Aedui, Epiros, Getai, Pontus) but it seemed that those factions purposefully started with more units than they could afford to maintain, forcing the player to either (1) disband some of their units or (2) immediately capture a nearby city. I suspect that the AI isn't really capable of making such a realization. I don't think they ever disband units, and I doubt they base their decision to attack cities on their need for money. So in EB, it might be necessary for the AI to get major income bonuses in order to survive.

[ziegenpeter]

I've only played a few factions in EB1 (Aedui, Epiros, Getai, Pontus) but it seemed that those factions purposefully started with more units than they could afford to maintain, forcing the player to either (1) disband some of their units or (2) immediately capture a nearby city.

I actually would like to see that changed for the player because I dont think its very historical that every nation would maintain an army that would ruin the infrastructure/money/crop income so much. Maybe there are some exceptions for some factions at war in 272 bc.

[ayekides]

I've only played a few factions in EB1 (Aedui, Epiros, Getai, Pontus) but it seemed that those factions purposefully started with more units than they could afford to maintain, forcing the player to either (1) disband some of their units or (2) immediately capture a nearby city.

Keep in mind that the A.I. gets money already, and even bigger bonuses depending on the difficulty. Factions played by a human will generally always be losing money, this isn't the case for the A.I. playing the same faction.

I would actually like to see a better system than just unlimited money for the A.I. That is why I mentioned the script done by Fred Putz a few posts up. I feel it has more depth than just unlimited money, and is said to offer a variety of benefits; for example, the ability to wage economic warfare. You should check out some of the links above, they have greater detail.

[Ichon]

Carl is mostly about ensuring the AI can still build and not fall behind in buildings when bankrupt. It assumes that even with fair amount of money script bonus AI is likely to go bankrupt. To even be close to fair AI needs about 4x as many armies as a human since the AI scatters the armies all over in useless places where human keeps 1-2 unit garrisons away from the frontiers and doesn't have an army sitting the forest where there is nothing to fight for 10 turns in a row.

It does work well but with the cultures and different design of buildings functions in EB2 I am not sure how the AI will deal with it and Carl would have to be adopted. Still it would be worth it I think.

[Crassus Creed]

Any word on whether the recruitment costs and upkeep will be as high as they were in EB 1.2?

[Parkev]

I've only played a few factions in EB1 (Aedui, Epiros, Getai, Pontus) but it seemed that those factions purposefully started with more units than they could afford to maintain, forcing the player to either (1) disband some of their units or (2) immediately capture a nearby city. I suspect that the AI isn't really capable of making such a realization. I don't think they ever disband units, and I doubt they base their decision to attack cities on their need for money. So in EB, it might be necessary for the AI to get major income bonuses in order to survive.

I think the change in recruitment will eliminate the need for this.

[moonburn]

also the amount of units one starts with is normallu bellow the military power that the ai faction start with (epeiros has 2 units of war elephants with the ai and only 1 with the player)

[Ichon]

I think the change in recruitment will eliminate the need for this.

Probably not since AI wastes its resources to be competitive it usually needs some help.