tech up

[Horatius Flaccus]

yes I am aware of the free upkeep in towns say for klerochoi phalangitai

Apparently that info is outdated (according to Bobbin).

[FinnishedBarbarian]

Apparently that info is outdated (according to Bobbin).

Before I continue with this subject (in a proper thread) I would ask did the Bobbin's statement reveal has the "garrisoned units free upkeep" feature been completely abandoned?

[Ca Putt]

What were the professional units of the barbarians doing when not fighting? Professional as a specialization that only was concerned with war would be such a small amount. Most of the nobles would still have lands to control and other work to be done even if they aren't out in the fields.

according to Tacitus these "professional" warriors just lingered around most of the time.

the point about all militia/farmer/Kleucheroi units is that they have a sillily high upkeep (higher than regulars) but get relived from it when "working at home"

When did bobbin say that?

[Foot]

bobbin, in a statement elsewhere, was referring to the statement that there would be an auto-disbandment feature in EBII. He did not mention free upkeep.

Foot

[Horatius Flaccus]

bobbin, in a statement elsewhere, was referring to the statement that there would be an auto-disbandment feature in EBII. He did not mention free upkeep.

Foot

He was replying to someone who quoted this from one of the first 'Steles':

In EB2 we are planning on using the Pezhetairoi as the backbone infantry for the Seleukids & Ptolemaioi, representing them as the “pikemen on field duty”. The Klerouchikoi Phalangitai will still be around and probably almost identical in stats, just slightly worse. The Klerouchikoi Phalangitai will be used to represent reserve pikemen, who unless in time of emergency are back home on their farms tilling their lands. In game terms this means that they will cost about as much as Pezhetairoi to recruit and will be free upkeep as long as they are in cities. This again to represent that they are tilling their land allotments, but should an enemy approach they will quickly arm themselves.

He replied:

No, that was the initial plan a long time ago, things have moved along since then.

So he didn't say that free upkeep was out, just that things have changed.

[ziegenpeter]

according to Tacitus these "professional" warriors just lingered around most of the time.

and you believe that?

[Ca Putt]

If I did I'd say:

In the Germanic society warriors did not have to farm or be in any way usefull for society when there was no raiding going on. The rest of the Community had to feed them

which why I did not say that ;)

[Ludens]

I am sorry, but I am not sure what you are trying to say. Any warrior class that doesn't spend serious time honing their skills will be quickly overthrown by angry peasants, who feel that they're not getting their money's worth for their taxes. That is provided the warriors of the neighbouring tribe won't do it for them. Celtic and Germanic tribes were often at a state of low-intensity warfare, so lazy warriors wouldn't last long.

Unless you are saying that "professional warriors" (which I think a bit of a misnomer anyway) don't contribute to the labour force; but how's that different from a regular standing army?

[Ca Putt]

What I'm saying is that Tacitus tells us the above. It's not my theory and I don't belive everything he wrote down. But alas I have yet to find evidence of idle/industrious Warriors so I just point to Tacitus :)

When, as you say, war was omnipresent then Tacitus assesment may aswell be correct. just that they just were as idle as anyone else when one has a break from work. They simply had no time/capacities for other work.

[bobbin]

Before I continue with this subject (in a proper thread) I would ask did the Bobbin's statement reveal has the "garrisoned units free upkeep" feature been completely abandoned?

I wouldn't say it has been definitely abandoned, just that we are not sure whether we will use it and what we will use it for.