My arche seleukeia campaign

**lionhard** · 06-24-2011, 18:52

(...) this is probaly the most annoying thing iv encountered so far.... im trying to portray things and play a historically accurate campaign...... and cant even ally to my closest faction (in history - macedonia) because i was at war with pontus and they were allied to them ......!!!!! grrrrrrr

**eo9o** · 08-09-2011, 17:31

Originally Posted by lionhard

(...) this is probaly the most annoying thing iv encountered so far.... im trying to portray things and play a historically accurate campaign...... and cant even ally to my closest faction (in history - macedonia) because i was at war with pontus and they were allied to them ......!!!!! grrrrrrr

Lionhard,

I started to play RTW-EB many years ago. I'm a expirienced EB player. My dificulty was with the english language. Now I culd understand your question ad the answer too... I thought you were allied with Macedonians and you losted their alliance.

**Titus Marcellus Scato** · 08-10-2011, 18:43

In EB, an ally of yours will not be impressed by you getting yourself attacked by another faction that is allied with them (your ally) too. Because your ally is allied with both you and your attacker, they will assume that you are weaker than the attacker - and keep their alliance with your attacker, and drop their alliance with you.

Strong factions attack others. Weak factions get attacked by others. That's the mentality behind diplomacy in EB.

Very unlike modern diplomacy, where the attacker is vilified - in EB, the attacker is lauded and praised for being strong and brave enough to attack someone, and the victim is despised for their weakness. No-one wants to be allied with a weakling.

So if you want to keep your allies, then make sure you are the faction doing the attacking. That will impress your allies and keep them loyal to you.

**Arthur, king of the Britons** · 08-10-2011, 19:25

True story.

**eo9o** · 08-11-2011, 19:10

Originally Posted by Titus Marcellus Scato

In EB, an ally of yours will not be impressed by you getting yourself attacked by another faction that is allied with them (your ally) too. Because your ally is allied with both you and your attacker, they will assume that you are weaker than the attacker - and keep their alliance with your attacker, and drop their alliance with you.

Strong factions attack others. Weak factions get attacked by others. That's the mentality behind diplomacy in EB.

Very unlike modern diplomacy, where the attacker is vilified - in EB, the attacker is lauded and praised for being strong and brave enough to attack someone, and the victim is despised for their weakness. No-one wants to be allied with a weakling.

So if you want to keep your allies, then make sure you are the faction doing the attacking. That will impress your allies and keep them loyal to you.

The EB AI think this way??? O my lorde!!!
So, I think it explain my problem... I'm fighting against the ArcheSelukeia during 40 years!!! When i took the Macedonians and KingElenon cities in Turkey's coast they attacked me hard and the Full War was started between us! Up to this time, we are in a Full War, Romans Vs Seleukeia! After many years of greats battles and big loses to both sides, I took all "pontus" (Turkey) and my forces had burned (only burned not conquered) the follow cities: Selekeia, Babilon, Arbela and Atioquia, the ArcheSeleukeia's empire was hit hard and lose many tropas and citizens! I thought they will be pleased to recieve a peace proposal that I'm agree in give them back the cities in east of Syria and some money, but they don't want the peace!!!??? why???

**LusitanianWolf** · 08-11-2011, 19:40

Originally Posted by eo9o

The EB AI think this way??? O my lorde!!!
So, I think it explain my problem... I'm fighting against the ArcheSelukeia during 40 years!!! When i took the Macedonians and KingElenon cities in Turkey's coast they attacked me hard and the Full War was started between us! Up to this time, we are in a Full War, Romans Vs Seleukeia! After many years of greats battles and big loses to both sides, I took all "pontus" (Turkey) and my forces had burned (only burned not conquered) the follow cities: Selekeia, Babilon, Arbela and Atioquia, the ArcheSeleukeia's empire was hit hard and lose many tropas and citizens! I thought they will be pleased to recieve a peace proposal that I'm agree in give them back the cities in east of Syria and some money, but they don't want the peace!!!??? why???

Because the RTW AI is like that, completely blind regarding being beaten. It will see you asking for peace as a sign of weakness and press even further.

Use Force Diplomacy to reach and agreement and if you want to keep peacecreate a buffer state, giving the frontier lands to a far away faction (also with force diplomacy) cause the AI will declare war on you as long as you share borders with them. If you dont do this it will fight to the last breath always confidend of victory even after you crushed all its forces. Hopefully this will not happen in EB2. Another way to make a peace last is giving them some money each turn but again it can be seen as a sign of weakness by the AI and if you share borders its probably only delaying war.

**ayekides** · 08-16-2011, 03:30

Force diplomacy is a godsend in this game. I tend to to use it to make buffer states. For instance, in my last Epirus campaign after beating Pontos in the field and nearly taking their last city I used FD to roleplay them as independent cities that were allied to me. For instance I gave the Bosphorus city 'Chersones' (SP?) just outside of Epirus' victory condition to them. I do not make them my vassals though, but I do give myself military access and not vice versa. Also with how rich Greece is, out of kindness I would give ridiculous tributes to Pontos, so that later on in the game certain 'allied cities' had decent merc and regional armies.

After that I find that using forts helps keep allies passive. In that same Epirus campaign I was allied with the Getai for a majority of the game. What kept them in check?
Covering every possible river crossing and mountain pass that I could with a fort. I even had Ak-Ink surrounded by 3.

The Getai remained steadfast allies from early on into about 160 B.C......and lets just say they paid for breaking the 100 year alliance.

Seriously though forts have gone a long way for me. I place them everywhere along frontiers and it helps to deal with how much money you start making mid - late game.

**Ludens** · 08-16-2011, 09:27

I used to do the same, but it may be something of an exploit. I suspect that the A.I. is programmed to march its armies at your cities, and when it can't reach a city (due to your fort blocking its path) it gets confused and gives up. It will only attack the fort itself when it has LOS on it. It's nice to have a docile A.I. for a change, but if my hypothesis is right, this will prevent "reasonable" wars as well as pointless ones.