Conspiracy nuts

[Fisherking]

I think that telling people that 9/11 was a government conspiracy is a government conspiracy, to make people think the government is both powerful and competent at executing dastardly plans.

Right, there are no government conspiracies. Only Government Operations.

MKULTRA is the most famous but there are a whole laundry list of other MK and DOD operations which experimented on both US and Canadian Citizens.

Then we have the Projects. You ever hear of the Tuskegee Experiment?

Did you know that Gulf War Syndrome arose from government experiments on its own soldiers?

They admitted in 1996 that they had exposed them to various agents.

The CDC also conducted experiments using experimental vaccines on 1500 six-month old babies from black and Hispanic families with out ever informing parents. That was 1990.

Do you think they have stopped?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Right, there are no government conspiracies. Only Government Operations.

MKULTRA is the most famous but there are a whole laundry list of other MK and DOD operations which experimented on both US and Canadian Citizens.

Then we have the Projects. You ever hear of the Tuskegee Experiment?

Did you know that Gulf War Syndrome arose from government experiments on its own soldiers?

They admitted in 1996 that they had exposed them to various agents.

The CDC also conducted experiments using experimental vaccines on 1500 six-month old babies from black and Hispanic families with out ever informing parents. That was 1990.

Do you think they have stopped?

The point is not "do conspiracies exist" the point is, which ones are real, and which ones are paranoid fantasies?

Let's not muddy the waters by the delightful red herring which are real conspiracies. Show me why 9/11 is actually real, not imagined.

(Actually, don't bother.... I've seen this argument and the evidence for it many times on many threads in many forums. I defer to the vast majority of engineers and experts who have settled the matter in my mind)

[jirisys]

The point is not "do conspiracies exist" the point is, which ones are real, and which ones are paranoid fantasies?

Let's not muddy the waters by the delightful red herring which are real conspiracies. Show me why 9/11 is actually real, not imagined.

(Actually, don't bother.... I've seen this argument and the evidence for it many times on many threads in many forums. I defer to the vast majority of engineers and experts who have settled the matter in my mind)

United 93 debris is rubbish (in the, laughable sense of the word), Plane that hit the pentagon debris is rubbish. They covered up the evidence with dirt (actual dirt), why would the FBI have the need to confiscate the nearby hotel tapes that show the attack? Why would NORAD/USAF take about 80 minutes in a critical emergency response? Why is the ground mark on the United 93 crash site actually older than 9/11? How can a building really collapse in such a way after taking less damage than even those bombed buildings on the news?

It's things that annoy me about the actual story. Which I have a healthy skepticism, of course, one can convince me otherwise with enough evidence.

I ask questions, not spout answers.

Pearl Harbour is said to be rubbish (since it's badly written, americans forget the U), Gulf of Tonken(sp?) is said to be rubbish, sinking of the Lusitania is absolute rubbish, intended to move the masses to WWI, the american government hid (ignoring it) from the people the actual notice from the German embassy warning of it's travel.

Also, the system is of course, against the proletariat. Even the so-called socialist countries are.

~Jirisys ()

[Subotan]

United 93 debris is rubbish (in the, laughable sense of the word), Plane that hit the pentagon debris is rubbish. They covered up the evidence with dirt (actual dirt), why would the FBI have the need to confiscate the nearby hotel tapes that show the attack? Why would NORAD/USAF take about 80 minutes in a critical emergency response? Why is the ground mark on the United 93 crash site actually older than 9/11? How can a building really collapse in such a way after taking less damage than even those bombed buildings on the news?

The Bush Administration couldn't conspire its way out of a paper bag.

I ask questions, not spout answers.

You sound like Glenn Beck.

Also, the system is of course, against the proletariat. Even the so-called socialist countries are.

Hehehe, I wasn't being sincere.

[Hax]

United 93 debris is rubbish (in the, laughable sense of the word), Plane that hit the pentagon debris is rubbish. They covered up the evidence with dirt (actual dirt), why would the FBI have the need to confiscate the nearby hotel tapes that show the attack? Why would NORAD/USAF take about 80 minutes in a critical emergency response? Why is the ground mark on the United 93 crash site actually older than 9/11? How can a building really collapse in such a way after taking less damage than even those bombed buildings on the news?

Okay. Let me quote Bin Laden here:

"Mr. Fisk, I hope we can turn America into a shadow of its former self"

Does that answer your questions?

[Strike For The South]

LOL @ I only ask questions, as if such a stance precludes one from being a fool

In fact we have proof in this very thread that this is not the case

[jirisys]

LOL @ I only ask questions, as if such a stance precludes one from being a fool

In fact we have proof in this very thread that this is not the case

Then I'm a fool. Fool.

I must have passed on it. Oh my. Could you please kind sir redirect it to me.

Also, never compare to Glenn Beck. NEVER. Not even if I was exactly like him.

~Jirisys ()

[PanzerJaeger]

How can a building really collapse in such a way after taking less damage than even those bombed buildings on the news?

~Jirisys ()

Concentrated heat above 1470 degrees Fahrenheit weakened the steel floor trusses on the effected floors, causing them to sag and pull against the outer perimeter columns. Eventually the columns snapped and the building fell in on itself. It's clearly visible from multiple different angles.

A bomb generally does not cause the kind of sustained heat for a long enough period of time to weaken steel.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Concentrated heat above 1470 degrees Fahrenheit weakened the steel floor trusses on the effected floors, causing them to sag and pull against the outer perimeter columns. Eventually the columns snapped and the building fell in on itself. It's clearly visible from multiple different angles.

A bomb generally does not cause the kind of sustained heat for a long enough period of time to weaken steel.

Thank you. I can't recall how many times I have done a facepalm because people don't understand that you don't need to heat steel all the way up to its melting point for it to lose all structural integrity.

[Hax]

Jirisys, could you please respond to what I said. There is a motive, there is a weapon, al-Qaeda admitted to doing it. What more do you need?

[jirisys]

Jirisys, could you please respond to what I said. There is a motive, there is a weapon, al-Qaeda admitted to doing it. What more do you need?

I understand it. I'm not saying that they didn't.

Though the Bin Laden in the post 9/11 video is much different than the one on the other videos. Even having a ring, something forbidden in islamic law (he oculd care less for all I know) and writing with the other hand (though really, many can do that).

As per your deluded fantsies of Bondesuqe intriuge....A simple game of Jenga will show you how the towers collapsed with the exact same entry points and your other questions are not really based in any sort of fact. It's like you threw a bunch of words together and took what sounded like it could pass for plausible

Also, the 0000s of people whom lost family members....I assume all paid gov't operatives?

Really? Jenga? Are you seriously telling me that the WTC buildings are built under the same fashion as the game of Jenga? That the same way a Jenga tower will lose it's integrity and resistance, so will the WTC buildings? Yet what of the mass really? Was it really that different? Wouldn't the steel columns be able to sustain the same mass, albeit worse, since some columns were damaged?

Not really, never said that. Don't believe that either.

Why Would I compare you to Glenn Beck?

I was talking to Hax.

Concentrated heat above 1470 degrees Fahrenheit weakened the steel floor trusses on the effected floors, causing them to sag and pull against the outer perimeter columns. Eventually the columns snapped and the building fell in on itself. It's clearly visible from multiple different angles.

A bomb generally does not cause the kind of sustained heat for a long enough period of time to weaken steel.

Prolongued fire? If I recall, few; if any buildings have actually collapsed because of fire. Especially those built of steel. So you are saying that if WTC1 had an uncontrollable fire, it would still have lost structural integrity? I'd imagine that they could hold on a bit longer than 12 seconds.

I'll give you that, however. Though really, collapsing in 12 seconds?

Thank you. I can't recall how many times I have done a facepalm because people don't understand that you don't need to heat steel all the way up to its melting point for it to lose all structural integrity.

Never said that, really. I guess you are projecting your own experiences with 9/11 truthers and my questions.

I get my engineering news from a more credible source, thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z40g4ubayTw

You're kidding right?

I hope you are.

Needless to say, I think people really have an enmity with 9/11 truthers, that's why people have not been quite happy with me. If you will not address the other questions I have, please then redirect me to a site where I could get an answer.

I also think that you think that I think that 9/11 victims and people who were near are unimportant, or paid by the government. No. Not at all. They are like any other human being, and I really think that their loss is tragic.

So... Lusitania, Pearl and Tonken? What's the verdict?

~Jirisys ()

[Vladimir]

Thank you. I can't recall how many times I have done a facepalm because people don't understand that you don't need to heat steel all the way up to its melting point for it to lose all structural integrity.

I get my engineering news from a more credible source, thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z40g4ubayTw