Conspiracy nuts

[gaelic cowboy]

Prolongued fire? If I recall, few; if any buildings have actually collapsed because of fire. Especially those built of steel. So you are saying that if WTC1 had an uncontrollable fire, it would still have lost structural integrity? I'd imagine that they could hold on a bit longer than 12 seconds.

I'll give you that, however. Though really, collapsing in 12 seconds?

~Jirisys ()

g = 9.81 m/s2 allied with a little F = mg and 12 seconds is all you need







Oh and in case you think there is a gotcha moment here the two vids are saying esentially the same thing I only included the first cos it shows the weakened steel.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Anyone who thinks 9/11 was a inside job needs serious mental help.

[Populus Romanus]

Anyone who thinks 9/11 was a inside job needs serious mental help.

Says the Martian.

[jirisys]

g = 9.81 m/s2 allied with a little F = mg and 12 seconds is all you need

Oh and in case you think there is a gotcha moment here the two vids are saying esentially the same thing I only included the first cos it shows the weakened steel.

Thank you kind sir.

Didn't they have core collumns? If they had, I imagine they would have stayed upright.

F = mg

Huh? This is the formula for calculating force, not speed. Don't you mean [v(t)= -gt + v0]?... Except this wouldn't account for resistance due to mass.

Anyone who thinks 9/11 was a inside job needs serious mental help.

Nibiru will get you for that!

~Jirisys ()

[Fisherking]

I have listened to the argument about 9-11 and heard authoritative explanations given both for and against.

To me it is a mystery that will never be proven one way or the other.

One thing for certain is that conspiracies are pulled off under the nose of everyone and very few people notice. They will even support the conspirators because the argument sounds plausible on the surface.

Most people never look deeper than what they heard on the evening news.

If you want conspiracies just look at the oil industry. They are past masters at pulling off scams and jacking up prices.

The most recent that I can recall is the myth that making alcohol fuels drives up the price of food.

It was corn in the US. Well if you know anything about the beef industry you know that most corn goes for cattle feed. You also know that brewers grain is an enhanced cattle feed.

What is brewers grain? It is the mash used to make alcohol. Alcohol is made from the sugars released from the starches in grain or other vegetable matter. These starches can’t be digested by cattle so removing them improves the quality of the feed. So by making alcohol you not only get fuel but improve the original feed. But it also competes with oil...
Most everyone bough into the idea that it was driving up the cost of food but what was driving the cost of food was the high price of oil.

See how that works?

Most people know that the 1973 Gas Crises was a sham that doubled the price of fuel over night but did you know that Prohibition was pushed by old John D. Rockefeller? Alcohol was the chief competitor at the time, as a fuel.

Hemp was much the same. The efforts to make it illegal were pushed by money from the timber industry. Its champion was Hurst and all of his news papers but he was also a timber baron.
Common Hemp which had no THC was outlawed with the then recently introduced cannabis from India. It was superior for making paper and a few other products that the timber interests had their eye on but just couldn’t compete with the lower prices of hemp. And it was not enough that it was outlawed in the US, the government pushed it as a diplomatic issue around the world.

There are countless other examples both governmental and business. Everyone is a victim of them whether you know of them or believe in them. When US soldiers were exposed to chemical and biological agents in the Gulf War it was by their own people. Even though they admitted it few people are aware of it.

So, just dismiss anyone who talks about conspiracies.

That is exactly what they want you to do.

[jirisys]

I have listened to the argument about 9-11 and heard authoritative explanations given both for and against.

To me it is a mystery that will never be proven one way or the other.

Much because the government officials for some reason disturbed the areas around it, not leaving a good deal of time to analize it. And also because if it is a patriotic display of sheeps being herded and excluding those that do not follow.

Conspiracies are most of the time irrational, an excersice to measure our rationality. Other times, they will dig down enough to uncover some deal of truth in what was a lie.

So, just dismiss anyone who talks about conspiracies.

That is exactly what they want you to do.

As George Carlin once said: "And now it's conspiracy, see, they made that, something that is... That should not be entertained for a minute that powerful people might get together and have a plan! Doesn't happen! You're a cook! A conspiracy buff!"

~Jirisys ()

[gaelic cowboy]

The most recent that I can recall is the myth that making alcohol fuels drives up the price of food.

It was corn in the US. Well if you know anything about the beef industry you know that most corn goes for cattle feed. You also know that brewers grain is an enhanced cattle feed.

What is brewers grain? It is the mash used to make alcohol. Alcohol is made from the sugars released from the starches in grain or other vegetable matter. These starches can’t be digested by cattle so removing them improves the quality of the feed. So by making alcohol you not only get fuel but improve the original feed. But it also competes with oil...
Most everyone bough into the idea that it was driving up the cost of food but what was driving the cost of food was the high price of oil.

See how that works?

Yes and remember also how the NGO types were running around blaming the West for stealing food from the poor people because there was less food or something like that blah blah.

The news talked of disturbances or riots at markets where people could not afford the food apparently cos we ate it or drove it away in our cars petrol tank, now hold on if there was food in the market surely it was a food price issue not a food scarcity issue.

This was especially true in Asia where a lot of countries depended on rice imports due to low or no emergency stockpiles of the same, why had they no stockpile's well cos the rice was worth money on the open market and they figured the same market could supply the needs after they sold it.

[gaelic cowboy]

Huh? This is the formula for calculating force, not speed. Don't you mean [v(t)= -gt + v0]?... Except this wouldn't account for resistance due to mass.

I was talking generically my good man, but yes indeed they are acceleration and force respectively and the floor still goes down because of gravity and force ie the mass of the floors allied with gravity it was all you needed to drop that tower.

Didn't they have core collumns? If they had, I imagine they would have stayed upright.

There were core columns but I imagine it would be hard for them to stand up after a jetliner cut them in half.

[Strike For The South]

Dear God.

Before some of you go spouting off I would encourage you to actually read the 18th amendment

After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.

I bolded it AND put it in red. It did not ban the use of alcohol for other purposes

Also prhobition was a done deal with or w/o SO because it comes out of the insanity that is 19th century American protastentism

Which....wait for it....is the exact religion Rockefeller was brought up in.

Let's also forget the fact that by the time prhobition passed SOs monopoly had been smashed

Also, what would be eaiser for Rockfeller...invest in alcohol as fuel....or throw his weight behind religous fundamentilsts (which he did only because he was one) and let that sweet train ride.

There is no logic in the arguement

[gaelic cowboy]

Dear God.

Before some of you go spouting off I would encourage you to actually read the 18th amendment



I bolded it AND put it in red. It did not ban the use of alcohol for other purposes

Also prhobition was a done deal with or w/o SO because it comes out of the insanity that is 19th century American protastentism

Which....wait for it....is the exact religion Rockefeller was brought up in.

Let's also forget the fact that by the time prhobition passed SOs monopoly had been smashed

Also, what would be eaiser for Rockfeller...invest in alcohol as fuel....or throw his weight behind religous fundamentilsts (which he did only because he was one) and let that sweet train ride.

There is no logic in the arguement

He is spot on with the sham that was the 2007–2008 world food price crisis although it was hardly a conspiracy twas more economics and shortsighted politicians that caused it.

[Populus Romanus]

American support of death squads during the Salvadoran Civil War is a myth. There was not even indirect support, this was disproven by a Senate investigation. The US started giving military aid and financial support to the Salvadoran government in return for their ending support of the death squads. Yet the falsehood of American CIA death squads continues.

[jirisys]

American support of death squads during the Salvadoran Civil War is a myth. There was not even indirect support, this was disproven by a Senate investigation. The US started giving military aid and financial support to the Salvadoran government in return for their ending support of the death squads. Yet the falsehood of American CIA death squads continues.

And my family killed 175614 people, but I made an investigation and I concluded that we didn't. Can't trust anything the US government says on it's own actions. Or any government whatsoever who investigates itself.

In 1992, D'Aubuisson died at 47 of esophageal cancer. He was never tried for any of his crimes. In 1986, ex-US ambassador Robert White reported to the United States Congress that "there was sufficient evidence" to convict D'Aubuisson of planning and ordering Archbishop Romero's assassination, describing D'Aubuisson as a pathological killer, as early as his 1984 Salvadoran presidential run.

Because the death squads involved were found to have been soldiers of the Salvadoran military, which was receiving U.S. funding and training during the Carter and Reagan administrations, these events prompted some outrage in the U.S, however human rights activists criticized U.S. administrations for denying Salvadoran government links to the death squads. Veteran Human Rights Watch researcher Cynthia J. Arnson writes that "particularly during the years 1980–1983 when the killing was at its height (numbers of killings could reach as far as 35,000), assigning responsibility for the violence and human rights abuses was a product of the intense ideological polarization in the United States. The Reagan administration downplayed the scale of abuse as well as the involvement of state actors. Because of the level of denial as well as the extent of U.S. involvement with the Salvadoran military and security forces, the U.S. role in El Salvador- what was known about death squads, when it was known, and what actions the United States did or did not take to curb their abuses- becomes an important part of El Salvador’s death squad story.”.

But, let's look at some of the other achievements of the US government in communist Central America and South America.

Operation Condor was a campaign of political repression involving assassination and intelligence operations officially implemented in 1975 by the right-wing dictatorships of the Southern Cone of South America.
(...)
Operation Condor, which took place in the context of the Cold War, had the tacit approval of the United States. In 1968, U.S. General Robert W. Porter stated that "In order to facilitate the coordinated employment of internal security forces within and among Latin American countries, we are...endeavoring to foster inter-service and regional cooperation by assisting in the organization of integrated command and control centers; the establishment of common operating procedures; and the conduct of joint and combined training exercises." Condor was one of the fruits of this effort.

Honduras had death squads active through the 1980s, the most notorious of which was Battalion 3–16. Hundreds of people, teachers, politicians, and union bosses were assassinated by government-backed forces. Battalion 3-16 received substantial support and training from the United States Central Intelligence Agency.

Guatemala has had death squads active since the 1960s up through the 1990s. Historian Greg Grandin remarks that "Washington, of course, publicly denied its support for paramilitarism, but the practice of political disappearances took a great leap forward in Guatemala in 1966 with the birth of a death squad created, and directly supervised, by U.S. security advisors. Throughout the first two months of 1966, a combined black-ops unit made up of police and military officers working under the name "Operation Clean-Up"-a term US counterinsurgents would recycle elsewhere in Latin America—carried out a number of extrajudicial executions... Over the next two and a half decades, U.S.-funded and -trained Central American security forces would disappear tens of thousands of citizens and execute hundreds of thousands more."

Oh, are you still defending the US?

~Jirisys ()

[Fisherking]

Dear God.

Before some of you go spouting off I would encourage you to actually read the 18th amendment



I bolded it AND put it in red. It did not ban the use of alcohol for other purposes

Also prhobition was a done deal with or w/o SO because it comes out of the insanity that is 19th century American protastentism

Which....wait for it....is the exact religion Rockefeller was brought up in.

Let's also forget the fact that by the time prhobition passed SOs monopoly had been smashed

Also, what would be eaiser for Rockfeller...invest in alcohol as fuel....or throw his weight behind religous fundamentilsts (which he did only because he was one) and let that sweet train ride.

There is no logic in the arguement

It may not have banned it for other purposes in text but it basically did so in enforcement.

There is no difference between drinking Alcohol and fuel.

So called Wood Alcohol was okay but it is much harder to make and more expensive.

Prohibition had the desired effect, however. After it you only found it as the essential additive to gasoline. ‘Ethanol’

Each state then decided on whether to allow its sale and manufacture.


Sorry, I am not going into John D.s motives and history. The temperance movement had been around since the 1700s but did not seriously catch on politically until he put his money behind it.

For much of his life he was viewed as an evil and mean man. All of his motives were scrutinized and viewed with skepticism. The press then rehabilitated his image in the 1930s. They lauded him for passing out dimes to children during the depression.

Many would still argue, with some circumstantial proof, that all of his philanthropical endeavors and those of the Rockefeller Institute had ulterior motives.

These can nether be proved or disproved, and so it goes on.

[Strike For The South]

These can nether be proved or disproved, and so it goes on.

This is where you are blatantly wrong. It can be proven within reason . The man left memiors, paper trails, speeches.

Simply b/c you choose to disreagard the most logical explanation for the fanciful B grade hollywood plot does not mean it can't be proven

[Fisherking]

This is where you are blatantly wrong. It can be proven within reason . The man left memiors, paper trails, speeches.

Simply b/c you choose to disreagard the most logical explanation for the fanciful B grade hollywood plot does not mean it can't be proven

I am so sorry. This stuff used to be taught. I guess all my teachers and professors were just windbag conspiracy nuts and were tainted from living through the time.

I am sure he must have kept meticulous documents telling all his motives and how it was for the good of mankind.

I am sure that he, Morgan, Chase and the rest only had your interests at heart.

Of course to believe that it helps if you were born yesterday.


Actually none of us want to believe that there could be conspiracies. Even though we see them and even participate in them in small ways. To think that powerful people would be working against your interests is very unsettling and we much prefer to think that everyone is good is much more appealing.

But powerful people try to get their way even though it may not be for the good of all men. And institutions often do things seemingly with out reason.

What sort of monsters thought up and conducted the Tuskegee Experiment? What kind of leaders expose their troops to chemical and biological agents? What kind of lawmakers write laws that harm most of their constituents for the benefit of a very few?

You can pretend that things like that don’t happen and that no one would conspire to put their interests before the good of others if you like. It may make you feel better.

But some times powerful interests may be working against you. You might want to watch out for those.