Wrath of the Khan 2: RECRUITMENT and rules discussion

[phonicsmonkey]

It's too hard to stop it five turns early but we can build in a grace period where the Mongols stand still while the rest get ready. The Kwaz are definitely going to lose some cities early whatever we do.

One thing I'm planning to do is equalize the treasuries for the non-Mongol factions, because some are heavily in debt. What about I give everyone 30k or something?

[phonicsmonkey]

sorry guys I discovered in testing that I have botched these saves and the horde is not working correctly, so I'm going to have to run some more and test those before we proceed. I'll hopefully have another selection for you in a day or so, in the meantime don't waste too much time looking at the ones I already posted because we can't use them.

Do feel free to continue the rules and VCs discussion though.

So far suggestions have been:

- replace Jerusalem with Cairo and Moscow with Kiev in the Mongol VCs
- increase the number of territories required by the Mongols from 40 to a higher number (what number?)
- provide a grace period at the start for non-Mongol factions to organise

[Nightbringer]

I support the grace period and the switches, as for victory condition I think a good way to do it would be to say the mongols need to hold all 4 regions, or say they need 4 out of 5 and add Warsaw

[phonicsmonkey]

I support the grace period and the switches, as for victory condition I think a good way to do it would be to say the mongols need to hold all 4 regions, or say they need 4 out of 5 and add Warsaw

If we do it that way I definitely think we should have an alternative too, like a larger number of regions without any specifics. Because otherwise I'm afraid the game will be too predictable.

[Nightbringer]

That makes sense, I think 60 would be a good number without the required provinces, or maybe 50.

[LooseCannon1]

Guys, I have two areas I'd like to bring up and get everybody's opinion on.

1. Naval movement bug. I consider this a bug & exploit and it should not be allowed. For those who don't know about it-put your army/agents on a navy with 2 or more ships. Then hold "Ctrl" and "a" together. Move ships and your movement points double. Your men can't get off the boats this turn but the distance they cover.

2 Vassalage. It really effects KGCM games more because another player can accept peace and vassalage for us on the AI turn. Making vassals of the AI factions to receive their money bonuses is, in my opinion, fair. Is it allowed here? We're about to end a game over at twc because of this issue. And the fact it's being brought up 12 turns after it occured.

[Myth]

Historically the Mongols needed the lands in modern day Russia - they made a huge profit there, and they were dubbed accordingly (the Golden Horde). The reached Hungary and Poland and subdued several cities of theirs. They also fought in the middle east and yes, the Mamluks did defeat them, though that happened after Ogedei Khan died and 90% of the horde retreated back to Mongolia to elect a new Great Khan. The Mamluks basically defeated a paltry 10k troops left as peacekeeping forces.

Anyway, I think the victory conditions should make the Mongols either hold a bunch of provinces and effectively eliminate the Kievan Rus, the K-Shah and the Turks, OR make them push far into Europe and conquer past Hungary and Poland.

So: hold 50 Procinces, eliminate factions x, y, z

OR

Hold 25 provinces, capture Warsaw, Cracow, Hamburg,

OR

Hold 15 provinces, capture all of the above + Paris, Rome, London.

Something of the sort, this is not thought out I'm just brainstorming (don't have a lot of time on the net atm)

Making sure the K-Shah is human controlled might be either very good or very bad depending on their position. In the TWC I've often heard how an AI controlled K-Shah beat the Mongols alone. Well remember that the money script in SS never lets the AI go bankrupt and they also have stacks scripts giving them free troops (try blitzing the Moors and Fatamids early on to see what I mean) AND they get free FMs so they can't die due to not having a family tree.

The K-Shah has great units and if it gets enough time, gold and castles it can seriously slap the Mongols around.

IMO RR on will benefit the Mongols as they get 50 free stacks of top-quality troops they can't hope to recruit in any reasonable time anyway.

RR off will mean we can spam our high-quality troops from our many castles. the later troops take a long time to train and replenish.

Equalizing the treasury to 30k for everyone seems OK to me.

Also I don't like that spies can open cities, this heavily favors the guys who have a lot of troops but no cities of their own to be captured (hint hint)

No Jihands/Crusades to be called or joined is a bit dull but OK. However if that's the case, then the ERE will be probably the second best pick after England. Perhaps even #1 if they have enough Scholarii at the start.

[phonicsmonkey]

1. Naval movement bug. I consider this a bug & exploit and it should not be allowed. For those who don't know about it-put your army/agents on a navy with 2 or more ships. Then hold "Ctrl" and "a" together. Move ships and your movement points double. Your men can't get off the boats this turn but the distance they cover.

I agree, we'll ban this one.

2 Vassalage. It really effects KGCM games more because another player can accept peace and vassalage for us on the AI turn. Making vassals of the AI factions to receive their money bonuses is, in my opinion, fair. Is it allowed here? We're about to end a game over at twc because of this issue. And the fact it's being brought up 12 turns after it occured.

I'm not sure of the specific issue you guys are facing but I'm fairly relaxed about this. It's not a massive money bonus anyway is it? Also, there are no "AI" factions in this game because they were all set to human when I created the campaign. This is so none of them gets money bonuses or scripted events that AI factions get in the SP campaign. So this might not be an issue at all?

Anyway, I think the victory conditions should make the Mongols either hold a bunch of provinces and effectively eliminate the Kievan Rus, the K-Shah and the Turks, OR make them push far into Europe and conquer past Hungary and Poland.

So: hold 50 Procinces, eliminate factions x, y, z

OR

Hold 25 provinces, capture Warsaw, Cracow, Hamburg,

OR

Hold 15 provinces, capture all of the above + Paris, Rome, London.

I like this idea.

In the TWC I've often heard how an AI controlled K-Shah beat the Mongols alone.

See above for why there are no "AI" factions in this game.

IMO RR on will benefit the Mongols as they get 50 free stacks of top-quality troops they can't hope to recruit in any reasonable time anyway.

RR is off.

Also I don't like that spies can open cities, this heavily favors the guys who have a lot of troops but no cities of their own to be captured (hint hint)

I actually think this is going to favour you guys more than me - I have heaps of siege equipment and don't need to haul it as far as you. But for the same reason I don't mind if people want to ban spies from opening gates.

No Jihands/Crusades to be called or joined is a bit dull but OK.

Jihads and Crusades are a massive headache to police and I'd rather leave them out altogether unless there's a strong feeling from everyone that they should be included.

[ArcturUs]

pretty much all the factions seem to be in a good position, except a few, I'll go with Moors :p

[phonicsmonkey]

I'll go with Moors :p

This reminds me - once we have our set number of players (soon) I was thinking we should cut some factions so that we have the right number of human-controlled and they are the strongest. I thought the best way to do this would be by number of territories, effectively taking the largest for us and leaving the smallest AI - make sense?

Then I'll allocate them among you randomly and you guys can trade them if you want.