The Anteroom - community discussion thread

[phonicsmonkey]

So.....tempting....

...surely it can't be a bad idea....

[Myth]

Hey guys, I'm still alive and back :)

BTW I did leave one internet community where I was very active for a year and a half. I was running some RP games, and playing in some. I left without saying goodbye because people there really liked me and my writing and would have begged me to stay.

[Nightbringer]

Hey guys, I'm still alive and back :)

BTW I did leave one internet community where I was very active for a year and a half. I was running some RP games, and playing in some. I left without saying goodbye because people there really liked me and my writing and would have begged me to stay.

Stroken the old ego I see.

I understand what you mean, but I know if you leave here I would still want you to let us know, even if we can't convince you to stay.


...and that way we can FORCE you to stay

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm starting to think NB is the hotseat serial killer...

[Nightbringer]

I'm starting to think NB is the hotseat serial killer...

And I'm starting to think you think a little too much...

:)

[phonicsmonkey]

somehow I have ended up being the mongols in 2 out of 3 games

[Myth]

Aye I'd warn you here as this is more of a competitive gaming field and less of a role playing, writing kind of thing. Not that I'm planning on leaving for now. BTW phonics you are playing in WotK2, GA and FN. Care to get another game going?

[phonicsmonkey]

BTW phonics you are playing in WotK2, GA and FN. Care to get another game going?

I'm going to try to stick to my self-imposed 3 game limit (if you count V&V I'm already breaking it)

But don't let my reticence stop you from firing up another game, I'll help you recruit and promote it and provide backup admin support.

What happened to your Dark Ages idea?

[Myth]

Umm.. there was some interest, but not enough. I've been playing the mod, it definitely needs some polishing. ATM it's too imbalanced for hotseat play IMO, unless we do it for funzies. I'd rather we start a TATW hotseat.

[Zim]

For a TATW hotseat, would that be teams?

Umm.. there was some interest, but not enough. I've been playing the mod, it definitely needs some polishing. ATM it's too imbalanced for hotseat play IMO, unless we do it for funzies. I'd rather we start a TATW hotseat.

[LooseCannon1]

Umm.. there was some interest, but not enough. I've been playing the mod, it definitely needs some polishing. ATM it's too imbalanced for hotseat play IMO, unless we do it for funzies.

Oh, I didn't know there were going to be cash awards. Looks like I have to play better.

I'd rather we start a TATW hotseat.

And Third Age is not unbalanced? Maybe compared to Last Kingdom.

[Myth]

TATW is imbalanced but at least the buildings do what they say they do, there are no bugged scripted actions (ally with the vikings to nullify them for example), there is no nation that gets virtually no chance of survival (Normans, Northumbria), so on and so forth.

I'd still be up for a dark ages game using TLK if at least four guys want to join.

[LooseCannon1]

TATW is imbalanced but at least the buildings do what they say they do, there are no bugged scripted actions (ally with the vikings to nullify them for example), there is no nation that gets virtually no chance of survival (Normans, Northumbria), so on and so forth.

I'd still be up for a dark ages game using TLK if at least four guys want to join.

Oh, I agree with your comments on TLK. It's like they didn't know how to create a mod. Make it playable, test it , make it more playable, test some more, then add in the pretty stuff. They went for the pretty stuff first.

Have you been following our game over at twc? We've had a lot of players drop out for no reason so there are quite a few available factions. It's only the 4th turn. Even the admin quit (claimed college interfered)

[phonicsmonkey]

So we have some factions starting to die off in the Kingdoms games. Egypt is out of the Crusades game, Turkey will probably follow soon....Lithuania is on its last legs in the Teutonic game and the Norwegians are surrounded by angry Danes. Plus in Britannia it looks like Wales might be on the way out.

Does this mean we're ready for a new hotseat?

Did someone say TATW? Do we have a show of hands for that? I think Zim said he would admin one of those.

And if there's enough interest we could do another SS6.4 campaign and skip it ahead 100 turns or so to a nice starting point...

[Ignoramus]

So we have some factions starting to die off in the Kingdoms games. Egypt is out of the Crusades game, Turkey will probably follow soon....Lithuania is on its last legs in the Teutonic game and the Norwegians are surrounded by angry Danes. Plus in Britannia it looks like Wales might be on the way out.

Does this mean we're ready for a new hotseat?

Did someone say TATW? Do we have a show of hands for that? I think Zim said he would admin one of those.

And if there's enough interest we could do another SS6.4 campaign and skip it ahead 100 turns or so to a nice starting point...

I'm up for one, particularly SS6.4, but Wales ain't dead yet!(You mustn't believe Myth's myths )

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm up for one, particularly SS6.4, but Wales ain't dead yet!(You mustn't believe Myth's myths )

Glad to hear it!

If you're interested in SS hotseat action in the short term I think the Clash of Gods guys are looking for someone to replace Visorslash...

[LooseCannon1]

I'm up for another game as long as its not on vanilla Kingdoms/M2TW. Can't play that without mods anymore I can also help co-admin if needed.

[Myth]

Hmm.. For UOTI I'm predicting a united Englihs-Norwegian victory but the stone forts and lack of trebs means it will take a long time to finish. Also Ignoramus is a cunning foe and is fighting tooth and nail to stay alive. But I did PM him, twice I think, asking him to join CoG! before it even started, both times I was given the silent treatmet :( You up for joining now?

Now in FN, yes Norway/Lithuania will die, but they are Zim and Thanatos and both those guys are busy, though It'd be great to have them in more games.

Who took out Egypt in the Crusades game?

Anyway, we could play a SS 6.4 game, skip it 200 years in the future and see what happens, that'd be fun. But we need some objectives. How about, the first to get 500,000 gold wins? However seafaring nations will have a tremendeous advantage... Tough pillaging might also be an option :D

[Zim]

Just a heads up, I will be gone from sometime late tomorrow until the following Saturday. Any of my allies can sub for me in any hotseat I'm in, or Phonics for the Teutonic or Britannia ones (being enemies in GA I don't think it would work out there. ). Phonics has my pw info.

With GA coming to a close and my expected life span in FN being quite short I'd be more than ready to join or run a game or two when I return.

[phonicsmonkey]

Who took out Egypt in the Crusades game?

Anyway, we could play a SS 6.4 game, skip it 200 years in the future and see what happens, that'd be fun. But we need some objectives. How about, the first to get 500,000 gold wins? However seafaring nations will have a tremendeous advantage... Tough pillaging might also be an option :D

Antioch.

Why not just use the standard VCs?

[Ignoramus]

Hmm.. For UOTI I'm predicting a united Englihs-Norwegian victory but the stone forts and lack of trebs means it will take a long time to finish. Also Ignoramus is a cunning foe and is fighting tooth and nail to stay alive. But I did PM him, twice I think, asking him to join CoG! before it even started, both times I was given the silent treatmet :( You up for joining now?

I must apologise for that. I'm a bit of a procrastinator sometimes, and I must have forgotten to reply to you. I'll have a look at the CoG thread.

[Myth]

Version history for 'The last Kingdom'

Version 3.06 (18th August 2011)
- added 'High Quality Sky Textures Project 1.0' by Hereje
- corrected royal banner for Vestfold\norway
- corrected glitches
*** known error corrections
- Isle of Muff renamed to Isle of Muil, settlement renamed to Tobar Mhoire
- Pics for 'Followers of Christus'
- Pics for 'Ridire bodyguard'
- simplified Hotseat configuration
- moved misplaced resources
- set Vikings to 'War' and negative attitude with everybody except the three other Scandinavian factions.
- set East-Anglia to 'Neutral' with Wesex
- Rebel unit 'Ridire Bodyguard got a skin now
- Vikings will not siege own settlements
- Lindholm can build port
- River port that blocked ship travel has been moved into a 'bay'
- tooltips corrected (coal mines)
- Berserker and Hirdmen now properly available for slave faction
- Normans no longer destroy churches after conversion
- Loyalty of Northumbrian heir increased
- removed vanilla units from custom battle
- fixed <beserker_vnv_trigger2> ancillary trigger
*** other changes
- incorporated Ulfhednins "True to the sagas" submod:
several historical names and characters\family trees corrections (Vestfold, Wessex and Normandy)
spawn of historical characters (Vestfold and Normans)
adjusted several rebel garrisons in Scandinavia to include historical generals and kings
Berserker and Hirdmen now properly available for slave faction
coming of age and min adoption age set to 12 years
occurance of a Norwegian rebellion
- initial invasion fleets have alternate co-ordinates for AI
- made Magyars playable in custom battle
- changed unsuitable accent of factions
- strat models for rebel factions corrected
Version 3.05 (17th July 2011)
- inital release

Soo we have a new patch for TLC that is not savegame compatible. Anyone up for a hotseat in the Viking age now?

[Nightbringer]

Hi everyone,
while fuddling about with the export descr unit file for ss 6.4 I accidental overrode my backup of the file. Could someone please upload it for me as I need it for a couple of the hotseat games we are playing here.
Thank you very much!

[LooseCannon1]

Hi everyone,
while fuddling about with the export descr unit file for ss 6.4 I accidental overrode my backup of the file. Could someone please upload it for me as I need it for a couple of the hotseat games we are playing here.
Thank you very much!

Here you go.

[phonicsmonkey]

I've been following this thread at TWC with interest due to the many issues it raises around hotseat games.

Generally I'm pretty happy with the way the games are played here (and I thank Visor in particular for singing our praises in that thread). The difference between the way the games are played at TWC and here is largely cultural but I think that goes a long way to explaining why we don't have the same level of drama here as they seem to have there.

What I'm getting at is that, for me and for many of the players I know fairly well, playing HS at the Throne Room is not really about winning as such, but is more to do with enjoying the RP and interaction with other players. For my own part I always play to win but I don't really care if I don't win, so long as I find the game entertaining enough. For example one of the best games I've ever played in was WotK where we suffered a catastrophic loss (which was sign-posted a long way back from when we eventually called it quits). So long as I can play out an interesting narrative in the game and get the chance to see at least some of my plans play out (for good or ill) I end up enjoying the game.

I think (hope?) that many of my fellow players here feel the same way.

As to the issues in the TWC thread I'm interested in the idea of simply allowing reloading of turns.

I'm sure that despite its being banned here it does actually happen a fair bit and while there are some rules in place which can mitigate the effects and are sensible (like the agent rules in WotK2), perhaps it's time to accept that we may get a better standard of game by just allowing it?

I don't reload the game myself to get different results - I'm a moderator here and have to set a good example! Having said that if I weren't a mod (or even if it were allowed!) I still probably wouldn't do it because A) I don't care enough about winning and B) I really don't have enough time to do it...

On the other hand as I've been alluding to I think the atmosphere and general conduct of games here is really of a high standard and perhaps we shouldn't fix what isn't broken. I also assume that this would only apply to AR games. I wouldn't want to allow the endless replaying of battles on the battle map until every last soldier is wiped out...

I'm interested in your thoughts guys. Not looking for a confessional, just a theoretical discussion..

[Zim]

It's an interesting idea but I always thought the players here were good about not reloading. Wee're really lucky in some ways here in the Throne Room. I think some of it may be that hotseats started in this part of our forums that was always about roleplaying (in ye old days this was the aar forum *).

If you allow reloading I'm not sure it would change things a whole lot. We'd likely see a win ratio for whoever initiates the battle in AR hotseats similar to what we get in games with played battles. People who would never have reloaded before will likely give it a couple tries in turns with especially important battles/agent missions. Then there would be those few that would spend hours and hours redoing turns again and again

*5 Santas (outside of the Santa smilie section ) but had trouble finding a regular old man smilie, so I used MR T instead. I pity the the foo'.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I pretty much agree with what you guys are saying. If someones going to do it, they do it. Although, I've never really seen it as an issue here and making a rule about it would just encourage it; and some of us already spend more time then we'd sometimes like on turns :p

Here Zim, I've always thought this lost guy looked rather like an old man with a beard

[Myth]

I'm at work now, I only read the first post and a couple down the path. In the beginning I didn't know reloading was illegal. It didn't really change much for me though. There are two abuses to reloading that really truly shine - reloading on percentage based stuff and stuff based on chance (like how many buildings get damaged after sacking or what negative trait your general gets when you accept a new moth/adoption) and reloading so you scout out the enemy armies.

I don't do the first because it takes so much time it's just not worth it. Plus I'm mostly lucky. I don't do the second because I always scout around and try to have as much LOS as I can anyway.

I DO load sometimes when I missclick, attack with just my general or get my army stuck on an enemy threatened square even though i plainly saw the enemy there already.

Occasionally I load to see what would have happened if I had done this or that. Post-factum of course. 95% of the time my assumptions had proven correct, it's really not that hard to judge the outcome of an AR battle once you get accustomed to the AR balance in that particular mod.

For fought battles though I can't beleive anyone wouldn't load if the fist thing that happens is their 10 star general dies to an AI flaming arrow or the instant-stakes that they get (the AI can put up stakes while the battle is in progress. It can even reus them lol). For now I've fought battles only against the rebels, except for GA where I've been smashed around by SS without any real chance to return the favor yet.

If a rule is poster where the first thing is done is an assasination attempt, then all merchant aquisition attempts and then the battles and spending moey, it can easily be checked if someone is loading to beat the RNG or not. As for battles, AR hotseats can't change that much. No matter how much you load, you either win or lose with this specific setup vs the enemy.

edit: regarding the guessing/using of other people's PWs or abusing the admin PW, that's too pathetic to even consider. I don't want to win that much and I don't think anyone else playing here does.

[phonicsmonkey]

In the beginning I didn't know reloading was illegal.

That's understandable, we don't talk about it much...I even forgot to put it in the rules for WotK 2 the first time (it's edited in there now)

There are two abuses to reloading that really truly shine - reloading on percentage based stuff and stuff based on chance (like how many buildings get damaged after sacking or what negative trait your general gets when you accept a new moth/adoption) and reloading so you scout out the enemy armies.

Those are the two major reasons why it has to be disallowed. There's just no point in having a %-based skills system for agents or restricted movement and line of sight if you can just reload an infinite number of times and cover a whole area.

I don't do the first because it takes so much time it's just not worth it.

I think this is the main restraining factor for most people who have a life. Who seriously wants to spend ages at the machine just reloading and reloading to get a different result? Where's the fun in that?

I DO load sometimes when I missclick, attack with just my general or get my army stuck on an enemy threatened square even though i plainly saw the enemy there already.

This is where I have most sympathy with the view that reloading should be allowed. Accidents happen and it's annoying. Having said that I tend to leave my mistakes as they land (which has caused a few disastrous outcomes in some games!)

Occasionally I load to see what would have happened if I had done this or that. Post-factum of course.

I don't have that much sympathy with this. Arguably you're getting access to information by doing this that you wouldn't get if you played it straight, which gives you an advantage (experience I guess).

it's really not that hard to judge the outcome of an AR battle once you get accustomed to the AR balance in that particular mod.

Which is why we don't see more lost battles. Rather than people trying, failing and reloading I think most of us only fight when we have a clear advantage or we have no other choice.

For fought battles though I can't beleive anyone wouldn't load if the fist thing that happens is their 10 star general dies to an AI flaming arrow

What are you doing putting your generals in arrow-range?!

or the instant-stakes that they get (the AI can put up stakes while the battle is in progress. It can even reus them lol).

I have never seen that! You learn something new all the time...

As for battles, AR hotseats can't change that much. No matter how much you load, you either win or lose with this specific setup vs the enemy.

According to that TWC thread, reloading naval battles can produce dramatically different results in terms of the number of ships sunk.

regarding the guessing/using of other people's PWs or abusing the admin PW, that's too pathetic to even consider. I don't want to win that much and I don't think anyone else playing here does.

It's super lame and a total waste of time. Nuff said.

[Zim]

For fought battles though I can't beleive anyone wouldn't load if the fist thing that happens is their 10 star general dies to an AI flaming arrow or the instant-stakes that they get (the AI can put up stakes while the battle is in progress. It can even reus them lol). For now I've fought battles only against the rebels, except for GA where I've been smashed around by SS without any real chance to return the favor yet.

Obviously you haven't seen my character track record in MTW2 rpgs. Most of them have died in some similarly pathetic manner. I must admit none were anywahere near ten stars, though.