Midgardsaga III [Concluded]

[White_eyes:D]

I am thinking Tratorix, Chaotix and TinCow are all the Jotun...it explains why I am still alive and why the kills seemed so dead-on in the middle to late game. good show guys.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am thinking Tratorix, Chaotix and TinCow are all the Jotun...it explains why I am still alive and why the kills seemed so dead-on in the middle to late game. good show guys.

Starting to think you're a Jotun, dude.

I want a straight answer. Romanic, or glyphz, White_Eyes.

If I don't get it, and glyphz or Romanic turns up Jotun, you are next, regardless of how much Reenk wuvs you.

[Chaotix]

Upon a recheck of the write-ups:

There are 7 kingdoms: Hordaland, Halogaland, Fjordane, Sunnmore, Nordmore, Romsdal, and Rogaland.

The Kings of Nordmore (DiY), Sunnmore (Believer), Rogaland (Renata), Halogaland (autolycus), and Hordaland (Reenk) are dead.

This means the Kings of Fjordane and Romsdal are still living. Since the Jotun mention there are only "2 left" before Reenk dies, this means there's only one true King left now. The other is a Jotun posing as a King.

Indeed, our choice is between glyphz and Romanic, as they are the two Kings, and both will have valid role PMs and such. Neither is lying about being a King. One of them is a Jotun.

I'm inclined to believe it's Romanic, but nobody should be voting for anyone besides these two. The only debate left is between Romanic and glyphz.

[White_eyes:D]

Starting to think you're a Jotun, dude.

I want a straight answer. Romanic, or glyphz, White_Eyes.

So, I am thinking outside the suspect list and I am Jotun? This is why we are losing so badly....but I already said Romanic is looking good for it.

If you don't want me to think outside the box, fine. Don't come crying to me when you are asking why I didn't see why so and so was mafia.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So, I am thinking outside the suspect list and I am Jotun? This is why we are losing so badly....but I already said Romanic is looking good for it.

No, I wanted to make it very clear that you're aware that one of Romanic and glyphz are proven Jotun because Sigurd said only one king remained. I need to know you know that, that it has registered, and that you've formed a final opinion on either one being scummier than the other.

After that, we can discuss other suspects. But the more relevant matter is who dies today.

If you don't want me to think outside the box, fine. Don't come crying to me when you are asking why I didn't see why so and so was mafia.

Think outside the box, just keep your eyes on the ball.

[White_eyes:D]

We are boned either way....one king left and I doubt Romanic is the only Jotun left. IF we make it another day, do you have any suspects other then me?

[Askthepizzaguy]

We are boned either way....one king left and I doubt Romanic is the only Jotun left. IF we make it another day, do you have any suspects other then me?

Yeah we are probably boned, I'm in "let's make it interesting" mode. I'd like to see us push it down to 2 or 1 Jotun remaining.

Maybe Reenk and the others were telling the truth about some ascended to godhood mortals and the Jotun have to kill off more mortals because they became gods. As such, the game isn't lost. It's not lost until Sigurd blows the whistle.

Yeah, there will be suspects other than you. I'd be willing to take a fresh look at anyone remaining, except for the other king if one king turns up Jotun.

[glyphz]

The idea of lynching a king is counterproductive, but if the write-up is indeed strongly implying that a Jotun is hiding as a king, then there's no other choice but to believe so.
Vote: Romanic

[Earthling]

We're really kinda doomed, but thinking about it neither Romanic nor glyphz should be lynched. If we're giving up on the game lynch Andres cause we can or if not quite at that point but we just want someone to die it would be pizza. He just went accusing other people and ignoring the need for explanations of his own behavior. Three points on that:

-you don't really have an explanation for lying about whether you knew all of the other kings. Say it's a slip of a tongue, but considering your whole argument about a spy in the network is who said what it's still scummy.

Also, it strongly appears like you knew about Roink despite his claim you shouldn't. ATPG, you had a much, much better motive than anyone to kill Roink, get it done at night so you're not contradicting your statements during the day, but if it wasn't you, it's more likely a lurker Jotun.

It's really hard to believe Romanic went for a hit on Roink as a Jotun, maybe Romanic's partner did on his own initiative, but Roman wasn't believing Roink was more than a basic townie or Loki ally at best and if he was Jotun and figured Roink was a King why not take up the lynch yesterday? Roman's votes don't support him being Jotun. Roink's actions don't support him being a town King for that matter, selling out other Kings and helping Loki kill a few, but there certainly doesn't seem to have been anything going on at all between Roink and Roman.

-Romanic is spot on with your challenging problem pizza and it doesn't make sense. Why would you let your king go to his death on a challenge if you were the champion? Why would you challenge Loki when you are a human guaranteed to die, and all it would prove was Loki was Loki anyway? Far simpler to explain that you are a Jotun simply hoping for the chance to kill Loki.

-you're wrong and hypocritical about Role PMs, specifically what text you believe should be in them. If you truly believe this theory of yours, as a townie, and you and autolycus knew your own PMs since the start, why were you not calling out tratorix for a fake Role PM this whole time?

Taking into account the above and that all parties mentioned could be town -at any rate we won't have more than 1/3 Jotun among pizza/Roman/glyphz and we have just as good of odds for like 2 Jotun out of 6 other players... I would lynch robbiecon at this point, he seems a good fit for Jotun avoiding the WoG, because he certainly did not place enough lynch votes to avoid a WoG as a townie.

Romanic does not look like scum at all through the posting history. Between him and glyphz, it's glyphz if we have to make a call, he lurked too much and made some poor votes, and it's still more likely they are both town than that Roman is Jotun. That would be a decent enough possibility that they are both town Kings and Roink was either not one of the town-aligned Kings the Jotun needed to kill or somehow some non-Jotun was looking for Autolycus to make that "two Kings" statement; until we see glyphz's and Roink's PMs and possibly Tincow's to confirm entirely for sure that one King must be Jotun we shouldn't assume that.

The Jotun could even have lied in the writeup, if they are given influence over how the writeups are written, an elementary mistake we should think of first.

So ultimately I don't think it's worth the risk of killing a Town king and losing right away or making it too easy. Take someone like robbiecon whose posting history is summarized as lurkerscum and hope we get a lurker Jotun would actually be my call at this point, if we could get everyone on board.

[TheLastDays]

We're all stupid. And it's glyphz, W_E and fluffy. Thanks for listening

Also vote: glyphz

Also, W_E, I vanished?! I had a standoff with the god of chaos! I am not lurking at all this game, yet you vote me after saying we should lynch a lurker. Not so well played, now go ahead and throw your partner glyphz under the bus.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The idea of lynching a king is counterproductive, but if the write-up is indeed strongly implying that a Jotun is hiding as a king, then there's no other choice but to believe so.
Vote: Romanic

I agree. But for the record, you do realize why anyone would point a finger at you, right?

Being exposed as a king for basically all game long due to the Holmgang, and no one ever tried to murder you?

I wouldn't blame anyone for lynching you. It's ONLY due to Romanic's behavior in private with the laughing at me when I suggested his fishing was scummy, plus the timing of Renata's death, does he barely edge you out.

This may also be a case of townie acting like scum, what a shame, and scum getting a pass for it. I'm like 45/55 for lynching you over Romanic.

[TheLastDays]

ATPG vs. Romanic this game = ATPG vs. Andres in the campground

[glyphz]

Indeed, I can hardly blame anyone if they chose to vote me. The write-up strongly implies that either me or Romanic is a Jotun. We both have king roles, no doubt. It comes down on town scrutinizing our actions/behavior/voting pattern and such.
If one of us goes, and the game somehow continues to the next day phase, w/o the remaining king being night-killed, then lynch the remaining king as well.

[glyphz]

Being exposed as a king for basically all game long due to the Holmgang, and no one ever tried to murder you?

The only thing that went my way was that the write-up was vague about the switch, and you'll notice that many did not get it at first try. I did not reveal my role and Kagemusha didn't reveal either of his. I assume the Jotun went after publicly exposed Aesir/kings first. Or saved me later (target or lynchbait) while they fish for the rest of the roles, which town did for them

[Earthling]

The thing is this choice because Roman and glyphz is not the only option. The ones who are pushing it could be Jotun sealing their victories; if we're going to lose anyway anything worth's a try, and we are trying to salvage something, this is a terrible setup with very little real effort and thought to just decide we choose between these two. It's not even close to a sure thing unless we see several more full Role PMs and believe they are not fake.

It's also completely shameful for glyphz to claim he's the only remaining King and want to lynch Roman without providing his own Role PM.

There are lots of problem with last night of which the supposed Jotun claiming they are close to victory is the smallest concern. Autolycus was a King who shouldn't have been here. The Usurper King is either missing, which makes little sense if Gyda is around and her father now dead, or still out there too. Or TinCow's claim to be Gyda could be a fabrication and classical was right all along that her role is fake (didn't she claim White_eyes was her father, that part of course could be a bluff, but the claim that she knew her father from the start would be a lie, then Roink claims he didn't know TinCow until recently?)

Also, how did Roink get access to an extra activity scan unless all kings had some ability like that which no others said they had? He clearly had third party stuff going on with his daughter if not Loki too. I'm not sure if Roink could provide his Role PM now but someone else should, like White_eyes, if they can.

So...we believe that a Jotun in the writeup implied there's only one real town King left now. Even if true we have a 50/50 shot of lynching the town King today anyway. I don't think we have enough confirmation to accept that in the first place. Lynch Roman because pizza says he's scummy when pizza himself is acting scummy, and lynch glyphz because he was lurking and not Roman and those must be the only choices.

I'd say let those two go and force it into another night if they have to kill at least one King. One more set of challenges with Loki and whatever anyone else has up their sleeves if we lynch another Jotun today.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Earthling, I don't want to be rude or even ignore your posts; please summarize your points within a sentence or two for some of us who are in several games and don't have loads of time to read every post in detail; especially if you're repeating previous points.

Basically, if you want to be heard, speak less, not more. I can read a paragraph or two, but not page after page.

This is coming from the guy who used to do what you're doing. That tells you something.

[Earthling]

It's a bad move to lynch Roman or glyphz - don't lynch either of them unless we see the full Role PMs of glyphz, TinCow, and Roink (from White_eyes) and that confirms for sure a King must be Jotun. There are multiple problems with the writeup and the assertion we have to choose between them otherwise. Plus for the sake of interest in the game it ensures we have another night phase, rather than accidentally ending it right here.

Second point robbiecon looks like a Jotun among the lurkers, anyone can read his posts real fast and he should have been WoG'd if town, so I'd go for him. Gives you/Roman a graceful exit too even if we still lose to the Jotun after catching one.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Indeed, I can hardly blame anyone if they chose to vote me. The write-up strongly implies that either me or Romanic is a Jotun. We both have king roles, no doubt. It comes down on town scrutinizing our actions/behavior/voting pattern and such.

Unvote, vote: glyphz

Romanic IS acting like a giant ball of scum. You're being far too passive and impartial-sounding. You should be screaming from the heavens that Romanic is guilty as sin. Your suggested course of action is to scrutinize behavior and voting patterns. You know full well you've never come under any pressure and don't have a giant scum sticker on your forehead like Romanic does.

I just caught a whiff of stinky, smelly, scummy, nasty Jotun.

If one of us goes, and the game somehow continues to the next day phase, w/o the remaining king being night-killed, then lynch the remaining king as well.

Let's start with you, then?

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's a bad move to lynch Roman or glyphz - don't lynch either of them unless we see the full Role PMs of glyphz, TinCow, and Roink (from White_eyes) and that confirms for sure a King must be Jotun. There are multiple problems with the writeup and the assertion we have to choose between them otherwise. Plus for the sake of interest in the game it ensures we have another night phase, rather than accidentally ending it right here.

I do want Romanic and glyphz to post their roles.

Second point robbiecon looks like a Jotun among the lurkers, anyone can read his posts real fast and he should have been WoG'd if town, so I'd go for him. Gives you/Roman a graceful exit too even if we still lose to the Jotun after catching one.

Okay, how about Andres holmgangs robbiecon tonight? Robbiecon has been dropping his activity everywhere, but I refuse to lose to another lurker. He's a really excellent player when he tries, and he knows better.

[Earthling]

xpost edit - Roman already did post his role pizza. It looks really legitimate to me, and khaan was his champion. If glyphz has an equally convincing role, we have both very solidly proven in that they are supposed to be the Kings of the countries they seem to be and they both had champions, now dead, and it would have to be a pure cover role. No guarantee of catching a Jotun on that. glyphz should still post his role of course.

If you have to lynch one of them as an addendum I'd agree that glyphz being scum is most likely, them both being town second most, and Roman being scum is least likely, so glyphz is the right call just between the two.

I'd still really rather sort out a host of other loose ends than force this two-person showdown followed by a town loss. TinCow's numerous and confusing claims, about her father, someone trying to kill her, surviving that attack, and her actions, make little sense unless we find the Usurper Harald out there, but that means someone else has a role as Harald doing who knows what. Or lynch an unWoG'd lurker just on principle if we're going to lose, or lynch Loki cause we can for all those townies and Kings he killed.

That's my piece though, like ATPG said more extensive observations in the prior posts so I probably won't respond to a question just about what's here that doesn't follow up on something that needs answering.

[glyphz]

The last few pages have been filled w/ doom and gloom and it finally got to me. I've read townies not even wanting to vote for Loki who I said must be the serial killer and not helping the town cause, or Reenk who's been exposing kings on purpose. I've been going over my head about the town's chances, and the chances fit the atmosphere. Two kings are left, they're publicly exposed, and we're not even positive that we got one Jotun.
I got nothing to contribute to Romanic's case, and am hesitant to vote for him. The cases made against him occured in private chat, and at least a couple of people think he's telling the truth. The only thing I have on him is from reading the last write-up, and since some have come to the same conclusion as me, I placed my vote on Romanic.

[glyphz]

No point in hiding it. May as well...

glyphz


Rodulv.

You are the ruler of Romsdal, and a former Varangian guard. Trained and schooled in the skills of war makes you a formidable foe in Holmgang.

You have been summoned to this ting by the Kings of the West Coast to agree to a course of action against Harald Hårfagre and his plans to conquer the whole of Norway.

You know from previous meeting such as these, that the Jotun will try to use such gatherings to hasten their purpose in bringing chaos to Midgard, and as such, you should be very careful of revealing who you really are. It would be advisable to let everyone think you are someone else.

Your survival is important. The Jotun, if there are any, are out to get you and your retinue. The Jotun will win if they kill you and the other Kings.

You have a champion in your retinue. He is the only one who knows your true role.
If you are challenged to a Holmgang he can take your place. If the Holmgang you have been challenged to is the one which will be fought I will send you a pm with the question of you wanting a champion in your place. Remember, the Jotun will be looking for you and will discover that someone took your place.

Your champion is Kagemusha


Holmgang ability: = 7

[Askthepizzaguy]

My mind is jelly and I just closed and I have an early open long shift tomorrow.

I can't tell if there's anything obvious about that role which is wrong. Didn't we already know which kingdoms there were in the game? Shouldn't we know which one is false by default then?

Kagemusha's death should reveal if he was from the same nation. Who was the War Vet for that kingdom?

Unvote, vote: abstain


I am leaning glyphz but I am not thinking clearly and I don't have time for this. PLEASE, read everything you can and decide this one correctly. I don't want my vote to be on the wrong person when you make your choice, the Jotun will just wagon with me.

I think romanic has acted like a bag of scumballs, but I also think there's no way glyphz should still be alive.

[TheLastDays]

If it's one of the two, i believe it is glyphz.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If anyone has time, and this is definitely a Renata/Romanic/similar job, I'd like to see the vote totals for the end of each round, and I'd like to see quotes linking back to all of Romanic and glyphz' votes during the game.

I'll read that before work tomorrow and place my vote based on that. Or, if you've made a decision and are mostly bent one way, I'm not going to try to override.

[Renata]

I can't do it, this being a Saturday, but I sort of hope that Romanic does.

Of course both roles look legit; why would Sigurd give an obviously-fake PM as a cover?

Autolycus' death-by-Jotun would clear you, Pizza, if this were the last game's rules. Not sure what more to say about it than that.

Between white_eyes' behavior and that one post by glyphz I'd probably vote glyphz. On, you know, zero real information.

[TheLastDays]

Well, again: The whole fight between ATPG and Romanic reminds me too much of the Andres - ATPG fight in the campground.
From Romanic's posts so far he doesn't strike me as guilty.

Glyphz should be dead by now. His survival alone is a good argument to lynch him. Also, obviously, one of the remaining kings is Jotun and I don't think it's Romanic.

White_Eyes behaved strange today and before. He avoids saying anything in particular today, not wanting to be decisive, rather talking about the lynches for tomorrow when we don't even know if there will be a tomorrow.
He also makes a nonsensical case against me, trying to diverse the town's votes more.

[TinCow]

I think the whole 'Jotun must be either Glyphz/Romanic' is scum whitewash. Reenk's death clearly had some input from the scum. Sigurd, on his own, wouldn't just randomly insert a joke death in what have otherwise been relatively straight-laced write-ups. If the scum can influence the write-ups, the scum could have planted that line to force us into lynching a King.

ATPG, I'd like to go back to this one:

-Romanic is spot on with your challenging problem pizza and it doesn't make sense. Why would you let your king go to his death on a challenge if you were the champion? Why would you challenge Loki when you are a human guaranteed to die, and all it would prove was Loki was Loki anyway? Far simpler to explain that you are a Jotun simply hoping for the chance to kill Loki.

This is a very good point. I'd like some more discussion about why you didn't fight in autolycus' place. The odd challenge to a claimed God also doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Yes, I've seen your 'fun' explanation, and you are definitely someone who plays for entertainment. However, your style of fun tends to be verbal WIFOM, it seems out of character for you to make an actual game-mechanics suicidal move just for the lulz. It looks more like an attempt to off a God without a night action.

[TheLastDays]

Well, tbh, there is a strong possibility that STPG is actually scum, but if he is... we're screwed anyway. We all handed him the game willingly.

But as for the Holmgang, as far as I understood the mechanics, it's up to the king to make his champion fight in his stead, not the champion who makes that call.

[Reenk Roink]

This is right up there with Reenk challenging Autolycus.

auto challenged me. So even if the Jotun didn't decide to kill me before, they would have clearly seen in the holmgang writeup that we were kings.

By the way, some patsy you were auto. You didn't get the Jotun off my back and you also got yourself killed. WHO IS YOU KING NOW ATPG?

Autolycus died by Reenk's hands in a fairly even matchup

Not even close

selling out other Kings

I sold out one, autolycus. At the end. Because I thought that the Jotun were going to kill me.

helping Loki kill a few

You have no idea what you're talking about here. Wish Andres was here to set this one straight.

Roink was either not one of the town-aligned Kings

I'm not sure if Roink could provide his Role PM now but someone else should, like White_eyes, if they can.

Please don't do it White eyes. For the sake of ALL we have built. For the sake of GHs untimely death. It will ruin any last hope.

don't lynch either of them unless we see the full Role PMs of glyphz, TinCow, and Roink (from White_eyes) and that confirms for sure a King must be Jotun.

ROLE PM CLAIMS MEAN NOTHING BECAUSE OF COVER ROLES. JUST LYNCH THE GUY YOU THINK IS WORST. ALL OF THEM LOOK BAD BUT WHATEVER.

or Reenk who's been exposing kings on purpose.

See above. Only one king was exposed. You were exposed due to a challenge, I merely pointed it out again and again so that the Jotun would have another person on their list before me. So imagine my surprise and disappointment when you're still alive and I'm dead.