US gubmint shutdown + default + subprime sequel?

[rory_20_uk]

Taxes should be as simple as humanly possible, both for the individual to understand and the state to enforce.

The UK has a hideous system. The biggest recent tinkerer was dear old Gordon, but he's not alone.

Everyone should start off being theoretically paid a sum of money. If you earn nothing this is pretty much all you get. You'd be very limited to where you can live and your disposable income is close to zero. You probably won't have enough money to have kids. Want to prosper? Do some work.
There is certainly no unemployment allowance. Everyone is effectively paid that - and we can scrap all the infrastructure that is employed in doling it out and ensuring people get the right amount. Want to work? Great. Go to a recruitment agency or online.
Then there is a period where tax is zero. Earning is always worthwhile. The most menial jobs mean you earn that much more money.
Then you collate all money that is coming in from basically all sources and whack it into a calculation that taxes on a slowly increasing scale.

No nasty jumps where earning more can mean getting less
No cunning "earn little and then get the money as dividends from your own company" crap. If you get the money you sum it up.

Very simple to instigate.
No complex forms to complete to work out what exactly one is going to get. The cost of instigating and sorting out the system would be a lot less.
No "incentives" not to work as the benefits lost are greater than the money earned. No U shape where people get stuck as to bother isn't worth it.
A hell of a lot less bureaucracy at the other end.

Needs fine tuning? I'm sure. The payment to everyone would have to be monthly as those that need it both will generally be poor at budgeting and not be able to wait until the end of the year.

There are few countries that need such a radical overhaul. With clarity it will be a lot easier to see how exactly to go about balancing the budget.

[Adrian II]

There is certainly no unemployment allowance.

Certainly not. Out of work? Sorry, you have to die.

If people have kids and then lose their job, well, it's like driving while drunk. They all die.

I can see this idea going very far.

AII

[rory_20_uk]

Did you bother to read the part that everyone gets off with money to start with? I know it was a very long bit I wrote... Third sentence in? Skim that bit to get to something to bash?

The point was that to ensure that there is no effective tax of 80%+ when one starts work one keeps one's benefits and then earns more. If you earn a large salary obviously you get taxed a lot more than this and so you still PAY net taxes. The point of giving it to everyone is for simplicity.

[Adrian II]

Did you bother to read the part that everyone gets off with money to start with? I know it was a very long bit I wrote... Third sentence in? Skim that bit to get to something to bash?

The point was that to ensure that there is no effective tax of 80%+ when one starts work one keeps one's benefits and then earns more. If you earn a large salary obviously you get taxed a lot more than this and so you still PAY net taxes. The point of giving it to everyone is for simplicity.

I see. Sorry, but that isn't formulated very clearly there. You didn't say who provides the basic income.

The source of basic income would be the state?

What you are talking about is a popular notion in many European countries, the "shared base income", no? In that case I totally agree. It would cut a humongous amount of red tape, and more importantly it would cut a lot of hassle and worries for individual citizens.

AII

[rory_20_uk]

I'm probably using the wrong terminology, but yes, basic income would be from the state. Good to hear that lots of other countries manage to instigate this. What a shame the UK isn't amongst them.

[Adrian II]

I'm probably using the wrong terminology, but yes, basic income would be from the state. Good to hear that lots of other countries manage to instigate this. What a shame the UK isn't amongst them.

No no, it's just popular among the perverted pinko commie Left. It hasn't been introduced anywhere yet, not that I know of.

AII

[rory_20_uk]

Odd that it's pinko. With a defined payout it can be easily adjusted as is a lot more difficult to cheat than the current system, plus has far fewer overheads, allowing for a small state. Few systems let people literally starve to death, and this seems to be the simplest way to both prevent starvation and encourage work. The fast efflux of workers from non-jobs in the state bureaucracy would also help make the country more economically effective, as the labour market would be expanded and less overheads to pay their state wages.

But then what Civil Servant is going to put forward a plan to sack probably thousands of their colleagues and make some powerful enemies in the meantime?