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Hello, everybody!

I want to introduce myself. I'm a historian from Germany (recently I have published a book on the Peloponnesian War). I've been playing Rome Total War for several years and I think it is probably the best game I've ever seen. I've also started playing some modifications (for instance RTR). I like the idea of increased historical accuracy. But I was usually turned off by certain shortcomings, most of all regarding the campaign map, the regions and cities and the leader names. We have seen loads of new and very interesting combat units, but there are many other things to improve.

This is why I started creating a new map. It took me two years of research and edit work, but now it is ready and it seems to be stable. It is a complete rework of the original map going from Scotland to India. Everything is of unprecedented accuracy. You have a huge number of realistic mountain passes, river crossings, islands etc. Some rivers have even become partially navigable. The new rivers and mountain passes give lots of new strategic options that will make up for a completely new game feel. For example: once you could prevent any invasion into Italy by closing 3 passes over the Alpes. But ancient geographers actually knew 12 ways to cross the Alpes and now these have been truly represented in the game, giving any invader a huge number of options.

The number of regions is now 197 (the maximum) and most of them are historically correct with exact borders as far as known. In many other cases I used rivers, mountains and forests to define the borders. All the major cities of the ancient world are included and each is in the right location as well as their ports. Many city sites have been highly improved. Just take a look at Alexandria, where you can watch the city plant with the Mareotis lake, the harbor and the island of Pharos and the lighthouse obviously in the right place on the island above the harbor.

In this thread I will post a series of screenshot to show what I'm up. For anybody interested I propose this map for further development. Currently I'm still working on a few features like ressources, city buildings, rebel names, leader names, but most of the work is done and the map is waiting to be filled with life. Any help is welcome. Just let me know what you think about it.

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Here comes my first screenshot showing Lower Egypt with Alexandria and Memphis. Watch out in particular for the following features:
1. Alexandria with beautiful city plant, the Pharos in its correct position on the island and the Mareotis lake behind the city.
2. The improved Nile Delta.
3. The port of Tanis with its bay/lake
4. The city of Heliopolis as port to Memphis (here still a fishing village)
5. The Bitter lakes and the port of Arsinoe.
6. The irrigation canal and the lake/swamps of Fayum.
7. Two branches of the lower Nile have become navigable and a canal allows ships to reach the Red Sea (but the ports of Tanis and Arsinoe will close this passage).

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Here is another screenshot of Egypt, where all the ports have been build and the navigation options on the Nile are highlighted.

This is the provincial order of Egypt:

¬* I AEGYPTUS --------0+7=7
{Delta} Delta
{Alexandria} Alexandria
{Aegyptus_Inferior} Aegyptus Inferior
{Memphis} Memphis
{Aegyptus_Superior} Aegyptus Superior
{Ptolemais} Ptolemais
{Thebais} Thebais
{Thebes} Thebes
{Cyrenaica} Cyrenaica
{Cyrene} Cyrene
{Marmarica} Libya
{Siwa} Siwa
{Sinai} Sinai
{Pelusium} Pelusium

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Here you get another glimpse. This time it's Syria and southern Asia Minor. The map highlights the passages through Cilicia. Note also the position of Tyros on its former island, the double mountain chain in the Lebanon and the complicated passages from Tarsus into Syria (Antiochia) which allowed Dareius to outmanoeuver Alexander at Issus.

The provinces and cities in Syria and Asia Minor are as follows:

¬* II SYRIA ---------------7+15=22
{Syria} Syria
{Antiochia} Antiochia
{Coele_Syria} Coele Syria
{Damascus} Damascus
{Nabataea} Nabataea
{Bostra} Bostra
{Petraea} Arabia Petraea
{Petra} Petra
{Judaea} Judaea
{Jerusalem} Jersualem
{Phoenicia} Phoenicia
{Tyros} Tyros
{Libanensis} Libanensis
{Sidon} Sidon
{Cyprus} Cyprus
{Salamis} Salamis
{Cilicia} Cilicia
{Tarsus} Tarsus
{Commagene} Commagene
{Arsameia} Arsameia
{Osroene} Osroene
{Edessa} Edessa
{Palmyrene} Palmyrene
{Palmyra} Palmyra
{Parapotamia} Parapotamia
{Dura} Dura Europos
{Arabia} Arabia Felix
{Tayma} Thaema
{Maecene} Maecene
{Gerrha} Gerrha

¬* III ASIA -----------------22+17=39
{Asia} Mysia
{Pergamon} Pergamum
{Lydia} Lydia
{Sardes} Sardes
{Ionia} Ionia
{Ephesos} Ephesus
{Caria} Caria
{Halicarnasus} Halicarnasus
{Lycia} Lycia
{Phaselis} Phaselis
{Pamphylia} Pisidia
{Side} Side
{Lycaonia} Lycaonia
{Ikonion} Iconium
{Phrygia} Phrygia
{Pessinus} Pessinus
{Galatia} Galatia
{Ancyra} Ancyra
{Bithynia} Bithynia
{Nicomedia} Nicomedia
{Paphlagonia} Paphlagonia
{Sinope} Sinope
{Pontos} Pontus
{Amisos} Amisos
{Cappadocia} Cappadocia
{Mazaka} Mazaka
{Armenia_Minor} Armenia Minor
{Trapezunt} Trapezunt
{Armenia} Armenia
{Artaxata} Artaxata
{Sophene} Sophene
{Amida} Amida
{Corduene} Gordyene
{Tigranocerta} Tigranocerta

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Here comes one of the most detailed parts of the map: Greece with the Aegean Sea.

While the original map had 13 Greek islands, this one has over 50! Note the details: the exact position of the Colossus guarding the port of Rhodus, the finger of Knidos, the Cyclades with over 20 islands and the city of Naxos, detailed resources like the marble of Paros and the wine of Chios, the exact form of Lesbos with the city of Mytilene, the Marmara island, the peninsula of Kyzikos and the city of Byzantium with its port on the Golden Horne, the Rhodope mountains in Thrace, the port of Thessalonike, the snowy mountains of Olymp and Parnassus, Euboia with the city of Chalkis and the port of Eretria, the detailed bays of the Saronic Gulf with the islands of Salamis and Aigina, the port of Corinth, the peninsula of Argolis, ports like Gythium and Methone in the Peloponnes and last but not least the Ionian islands with the city of Corcyra.

What you don't see in this screenshot is that all mountain passes have become much more realistic giving more strategic options. I'll have more screenshots later to illustrate this.

These are the Greek regions and cities:

¬* V GRAECIA -------------------52+20=72
{Macedonia} Macedonia
{Pella} Pella
{Chalcidice} Chalcidice
{Therme} Thessalonica
{Nova_Epirus} Nova Epirus
{Apollonia} Apollonia
{Epirus} Epirus
{Ambracia} Ambracia
{Thessalia} Thessalia
{Larisa} Larisa
{Aetolia} Aetolia
{Thermon} Thermon
{Locris} Locris
{Delphi} Delphi
{Boeotia} Boeotia
{Thebae} Thebes
{Attica} Attica
{Athenae} Athens
{Achaia} Achaia
{Corinth} Corinth
{Argolis} Argolis
{Argos} Argos
{Laconia} Laconia
{Sparta} Sparta
{Elide} Elis
{Elis} Elis
{Messenia} Messenia
{Messene} Messene
{Creta} Creta
{Kydonia} Kydonia
{Rhodos} Rhodos
{Rhodes} Rhodos
{Lesbos} Lesbos
{Mytilene} Mytilene
{Euboea} Euboea
{Chalcis} Chalcis
{Cyclades} Cyclades
{Naxos} Naxos
{Corcyra} Corcyra
{Kerkyra} Corcyra

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this map is amazing... could you modify the vanilla map for RTW at all?

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Thanks for your comment. At the moment I´m on holiday. Much more, when I get back.

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This is by far the best map for RTW I've seen so far. Impressive!!

P.S: What's the name of your new book?

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Hi and thanks,

Sorry, but my book is in German language. It is a dramatic version of the Peloponnesian War. The title is "Die Demagogen. Der Untergang des Attischen Reiches" by Petreius Hyphantes.

Now I'll continue posting some of my recent work on the RTW map.

Here comes the kingdom of Pontus:

The ruler Mithradates I is in the capital Amaseia (not Amisos, which is the port; I corrected this from the list above).
You can easily recognize all the work on the rivers, fords, mountain chains and passes.

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Now, this is what I'm doing at the moment. Since I have to fill my map with life, I have decided to introduce only historical personalities in my families. I've already done the three Diadoch dynasties, Pontus, the Thracians, Dacians, Parthians, Carthaginians, Germans, Britons and part of the Slaves. Next will be the Gauls.
Here you can have a look at Carthaginian politics during the Punic wars. It was quite a mess with all those Hamilcars, Hannos, Hasdrubals and Hannibals, but I think I got it quite clear now and you can learn to distinguish them. As far as known, I represented original family relations, but certainly this was not enough for connecting them all to the family tree and so I had to integrate historical facts. Usually I did this by connecting to the female side. In some cases I had to compromise, f.e. the game allows only four children, but Hamilcar Barca had at least five, and thus there was no place for the second daughter. With the only exception of Sophonisba we don't know any of the Carthaginian wives or daughters, so their names are all fictious. Sorry, but this family tree is quite large, that's why some branches on the far left and right are cut off.

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This map shows how the extension to the north is working. Here you have the unexplored "islands" of Scandiae. Note the Danish, Swedish adn Baltic islands, the island of Rugen with its famous white cliffs, the Prussian and Baltic coast, but most of all take a look at those Norvegian fjords. Will your explorers be able to find the kingdom of Thule?

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Here is the family tree of the Antigonids of Macedonia. In this case even the female names are all historical.

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SWEET JESUS:D
BALLOON ATTACKKKKKKKKKKK

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Here you got another screenshot from my new map: This is Sicily with southern Italy.

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And this is northern Italy. Note the islands in the Adriatic Sea, the Gulf of Naples, The island of Elba, the lake of Verona and the smaller ones in Tuscany and the position of the ports of Ravenna and Venice in their respective lagoons.

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Maybe someone is saying: that's looking good, but what's the use? The following screenshot of northern Italy and the Alpes region puts in evidence the improvements on the game-playing level. In the vanilla map you had simply four large passages over the Alpes. If you closed them well, maybe with a fort, noone would ever be able to invade your country. In my map I have increased the mountain passes over the Alpes to a realistic number. Every major pass that exists in reality is now represented in the game and this gives you at least 16 different options to invade your enemy. On the other hand, however, prepare yourself that the passages have become narrower and more difficult. Good luck then, Hannibal!

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Ich find deine Map extrem gut!
Und ja, ich bin aus Deutschland.

Ist dein Buch ein historischer Roman oder ein Sachbuch?

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Hallo, prima, dass die Karte dir gefällt. Das Buch ist weder das eine noch das andere, sondern es handelt sich um drei historische Dramen und eine Satire. Jedenfalls ist es ziemlich spannend und im Prinzip wird der komplette Peloponnesische Krieg erzählt.

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i cant understand german! by the way your map and family trees will be great for the mod

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Philadelphos,when you dicede to blees us and release this mod,coud you create a thread at TWC?
It woud be a shame for someone not to see this...
Also,don't talk german...

Or elese...

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Potrei anche parlare in italiano ;-)
Well, I was just joking! I spoke German to answer a question about my book, nothing related to the game.

So when and how will I release this? A good question. I think I'll need your help before I'll be ready.
I tell you a) what I got, b) what I plan and c) what I need:

a) What I got:
The map is ready. It's a complete rework including Scotland and India. In runs on RTW v 1.5.
There are 197 regions. Someone assured me that the limit is 199, but my game crashed at 198, so it would be nice to include two more regions, but for the moment I stay with what I got.
Probably not every decision about regions and cities will be exactly useful for your plans and you might want to discuss it. In any case I reflected for a long time and there are little margins for changes. But sometimes I still change a few things. For example yesterday I decided to change the borders in Spain.
I got a complete regions and cities list (you've seen parts of it above). Just ask and I'll send you the complete list.

Four things still need to be revised and completed:
1. The cities specifications (especially the buildings, while population should be ok)
2. The resources on the map are ok, but they don't correspond to the ones in the cities list (I don't even know if this is a problem)
3. The rebels should be revised and specified. For the moment I stuck to the list of the Time map editor, but I'd like to introduce a different rebel name for almost every region.
4. The mercenary pools are still incomplete. But this is a point that can be decided only in collaboration with the developers of new units. For the moment my strat.txt contains only vanilla units. Military units are out of my range of competence (since most of you are military historians or skinners, I guess you'll be glad to hear that).

b) What I plan:
For the moment I'm planning to release this as vanilla as possible under every other point of view.
This means that I want to keep the original factions with only one exception. I want to keep even two different Roman factions (Populares=Julii and Optimates=Scipii) plus the Senate. Only the Brutii will be replaced by another Greek faction. This is needed to counterbalance the Greek cities which would otherwise occupy without any difficulty all those mini states like Elis, Delphi, Euboia, Messene, Mytilene ecc.
My plan is to call this faction The Greek Colonies. They should be led by Pyrrhus and Hieron II and at the start they should include the cities of Tarent, Syracuse, Croton, Ambracia and Massilia. In my first trial runs they often went to war with both the Greek cities and the Romans, so it looks like going in the right direction.
I know that these decisions sound delusive to all of you who want to get rid of the Roman factions and play the Illyrians or the Mauryans. But my decision is to postpone these issues. My personal point of view is that the game includes several quite useless factions. Some where historically not important enough, others are not interesting for the game.
One of the less important factions are the Dacians, but they are much fun, when you play the Macedonians. The Tracians were not very important historically and they are even less in the game. Most of the time they are just sitting there and you have to help them to survive. My opinion is that these two factions might be merged somehow.
The Scythians had no real state and they are quite useless in the game. So they might be assigned to the Slaves.
Hence my idea is that in a second stage we might introduce the Illyrians and the Mauryans.
In a third stage you might even get rid of the Roman factions and introduce whatever faction you like.

As starting year of the game I choose 280, but it might also be 300. Indeed I've come to the conclusion that time is relative in this game. If you look at it you see that this game combines political and military confrontation of at least three centuries. For instance you might even have Hannibal meet Vercingetorix or Caratacus. If we'd stick strictly to the year 280 we wouldn't have a single German, Spanish, Britain or Numidian leader and all the Gauls should be placed in Thessaly and Galatia!
So this is not going to be a simulation of the year 280, but a time warp adventure where to meet all of your ancient heroes.
This is why I created the family trees and I'm almost done. Still missing are the Romans and the Greeks. All the rest is complete, even the Illyrians and the Mauryans which are included in the Slaves family tree (I guess I still have to include the Bosphorans and some minor leaders there). I included even a number of important leaders who died shortly before 280. So if you want, playing the Antigonids or the Seleucids, you might even start the game with the battle of Ipsos in 301 BC. In the end all leaders will be historic figures and each of them will be placed in a region where he actually fought (with very few minor exceptions).

c) What I need:
To release this game I need help mostly on two points:
1. I need to create the faction of the Greek Colonies. It should be easy, just doubling the Greek cities, at least in the first place, but I don't know how to do it and it would take some time to learn it. Every help in this direction is welcome.
2. Recently, after introducing lots of leaders and units, the game has become unstable. Usually I get a CTD after one of the first turns. Hence I'd need help to debug it.

Now that's my programme. If anything doesn't sound convincing, I'd be glad to discuss with you. With a little help the rest of the work might be done in about a month. Once released, my map would be available even for what you are planning on the Historical RTW Vanilla v1.5. Just let me know what you think about it.

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Why you think Thrace is ussles?
And you coud merge daceians and thrace becose dacians where a Thracian tribe realy...

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Well, since my notobook started this morning up again, I would be glad to help you.
1. Creating the faction greek colonies, especially just as a copy of the greek cities, is no problem. However, if you convert a roman faction to the greek colonies you will inevitably have the Senate and Senate offices tab, and random missions of the senate. If you use a non-roman faction this is no problem at all.
2. I don´t know what the error is - but you can send me the map and maybe I find the error. But if I were to guess a region isn´t coloured right (or what do you say for this? Well, at least the error is somewhere there), because I know in the SPQR 8.0 Mod the modder made a settlement in the sea, didn´t want it to be captured and just made a (wanted) error in map_regions.tga, so that if any ship coming near the island would make the game ctd. It is probably a minor error, just a field big, but if a character walks on this field the game ctd´s.

And I really appreciate the work you did by making this campaign map.

@Skull and ahowl: I just asked him something about his book, and since I am the only one here who can read it I figured I might aswell speak german as I like it more.

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Don't missunderstand me. I like the Thracians. But I think they will always be squashed in the game, because Macedon, Pontus, Dacia and the Scyths are four strong neighbors. In my game they have even more trouble, because I strenghtened the Slaves in Byzantium and I added the Gaul storm of 280 with even a number of Egyptian units under Ptolemy Ceraunos. So you see there is little margin to strengthen the Thracian position, and that's the reason why I thought the same thing as you, that is, to unite them with another tribe. This might be the Dacians or else the Illyrians because they are both relatives of the Thracians.

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Thanks for your help.

First the good news: The game has become stable again. I don't know what it was, but after cleaning up the Britons, Gauls and Iberians (mainly reducing the number of units which had been copied on assembly line) I got no more problems.

Yesterday I played a bit as the Slave faction and there is huge action all over the map. After three turns I had a nice battle in the Caledonian snow between british hero Caratacus and Calgacus, the first Scot in history, the guy who told the Romans they'd made the world a desert and called it peace. When I saw those chariots arrive I thought my Braveheart would have been lost, but when Caratacus was slain the Brits couldn't wait to get back to the Lowlands. Unfortunately I had only triggered medium difficulty otherwise it would have been huge.

Well, I still don't know why I can't reach up to 199 regions, but that's a minor problem, maybe related to the Time Editor. I can fix this later.

In the meantime I'm making big progress with the families. Yesterday I added the Bosphorans and the Bactrians. Today it's the Epirots and the Syracusans.

Regarding the Greek Colonies, I've change the culture of the Brutii to Greek, but this is not enough to transform them all together. Indeed, as you said, I have noted that they keep receiving orders from the Senate. I'm not sure if I got your messagge right: Will this still be the case if we completely change the name of the Brutii? Do you say that the second slot will always receive orders from the Senate, even if we put maybe Nabataeans in the place? If this is the case, I should think of a faction for which this might be only a minor problem and then change positions.
In any case I have noted that the Brutii/Greek Colonies go to war with the other Roman factions (after changing their diplomacy settings).

Thank you very much for your offer, I'll come back on it very soon and then we'll create the Western Greek faction.

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Germany is a place where you can really get lost with your legions. The rivers, except for the Rhine and Danubius, offer little orientation or protection. Here you see the German leader Arminius north of the Moenus and you can easily realize that there are too many fords to controll them all. Better build a limes if you can!
The Rhine is navigable at least until Ara Ubiorum (Cologne). All the German rivers and mountains are in the right place. Have a look at those chains surrounding Boihaemum! Regions and city names are retrieved from the Ptolemaic Magna Germania map.

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My theory still holds, less units mean less probability of an army walking on a bugged field. But it is nice that it works.

Well, it is not about the second slot: I somewhere saw he pic where the brutii were changed to egyptian culture, and both internal and viewable faction name were changed to something else, while It still received Senate missions. And it doesn´t have anything to do with the order of the factions. I spent a few days trying to mod the Senate for HRTW, and believe me, you can´t do anything about it. There are 2 Options left: 1. You remove a non-roman faction like Scythia.
2. If you played with the slave faction you sure have noticed they are Roman Culture, but don´t have Senate and Senate Offices Tab. This is just a Theory: You can try to swap the brutii to be the slave faction while you use the old slave faction for the greek colonies. Both the Senate and Slaves Hardcoded attributes are based on the internal faction name, while the Senate Missions are for the 3 Roman Factions no matter what the internal name is called, it might work.

A bit additional Information about the Senate: If the Brutii/Greek Colonies attack a Roman faction now, the Missions stop. But you still have the Senate Offices tab, a very angry Senate in the Senate Tab and the other 2 roman factions get missions like "Attack Outlaw Faction".

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That's right, but I haven't so much reduced the armies, but only the units in each army. So unless they split (which doesn't happen too often) the impact on walking around should not be too great.
I discovered another reason for CTD. It also happens when one of the capitals is lost due to civil unrest. I gave the Cyclades to Egypt and since the Time Editor orders my regions from north to south, they became the Egyptian capital. Ath the time I had no army or temple in there and the game always crashed after the second turn, until I gave that city back to the slaves. Maybe something similar happened even this time and I corrected it by putting an army in the place.


Thanks, this is very important information that helps to spare a lot of time. I already thought about swapping Bruti/Greek Colonies and slaves, but your idea is even more complete.

This sounds really interesting. As a matter of fact, it might turn out a good boost for the developement of the Roman Empire. Indeed I think, if Rome wants to grow, Tarent and Syracuse need to be crushed. So the only doubt is whether lead them against the Slaves or the Greek colonies. For the elegance of the game it might be better to have them fight against the slaves. This would give Rome a huge conquest programme!

One point I wanted to correct is the Senate's military attitude. I found them always very timid. They never attack anybody and I wanted them to take a more active role in some area. Have you got some idea?
I also noted one meccanism that seems to make sure that no army attacks if they don't have a neighboring retreat city. For instance, I placed Gauls in Anatolia, but they did nothing there, until I gave them the region of Galatia. After I did they immediately started attacking neighboring cities like Pessinus in Phrygia.
In the same manner Brennus in Thessaly and other Gauls in Thrace never do nothing. I also placed a Senatorial army in Bruttium, suggesting that they'd take Rhegium, but they never did. How is it possible to overcome this problem? Is "preference for marittime invasion" a solution? There is such an option in the factions file, but I noted that all factions are triggered to "land invasion". So I changed the Greek cities, but to the moment I can't tell any difference.

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The Senate´s AI is hardcoded - However, if they have 2 Cities these Hardcoded parameters don´t apply anymore, and they will attack friend or foe like any other faction. Did you notice the Senate has no ships? Pretty illogical, one would think, till you give them ships and they start to blockade your ports out of no reason - somehow ships and a second settlement break the hardcoded AI. Why the other factions didn´t do anything I don´t know.
And to prefers_naval_invasions: Some of the factions are hardcoded for naval invasions, like the greek cities. If you give them a city in Italy they will invade Rome per naval invasions. However, most of the hardcoded AI is still a mistery.

And I like your idea - Campaigning as Rome could be much more fun.

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I have long given the Senate a second region. It was one of my first changes. But I can't confirm what you say, that they attack other factions. Yesterday I have seen that they aren't even at war with the slaves. They aren't at war with anybody, unless the other Roman factions are attacked. So it seems they will never go to war with the slaves and it's a pity, because if we can't change it the Senate armies are pretty useless and they will never expand anywhere. If it is hardcoded, it is really stupid. In any case a nation with only one region rarely attacks anyone. I've seen it with the Thracians.

These hardcode limits are one reason among many why the swap between Greek Colonies and Slaves won't work. The Slaves are not less hardcoded than the Senate. Most of all they got all those subfactions.

I can't confirm though that the Senate never has ships. If I remember well, in my first game as Julii (or was it the Greeks, maybe both) they had a huge fleet of 20 biremes and it cost me a lot of time and money to hunt them down.
But maybe you intended to give them a fleet from the start. Well, I'll try that out.

In the meantime I'll have to strenghten the Julli and the Scipii to get them into Balcan and Sicilian wars. Yesterday the Scipii at least managed to take Rhegium (with some difficulty), but they failed with Messana where Cios of the Mamertines turned out unbeatable.
I haven't yet edited the Roman armies, so they are still pretty weak and I had a lazy day as Pyrrhus.

After all the senate orders aren't too annoying. I earned 10000 denarii for capturing Apollonia and I think that's acceptable.
Btw, I have noticed that the Senate button has disappeared since I changed the Bruti culture to Greek. So this problem has been solved and the others are not so bad for the moment, especially since they all will disappear as soon as the Colonies and Rome go to war. Yesterday I had no fun doing so because I knew that the opposing armies were not ready. And the Romans had no reason to complain or didn't dare to.

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