Westeros: A Game of Thrones.

[Kival]

Stannis

You conjour monsters of darkness and consort with False gods, and you are accusing me of trickery?

Tywin.

How do you want to know that? As far as I know at this moment nobody knows about Melissandre.

[Greyblades]

There are rumours of Lady Seylise abandoning the Seven for a foreign god, Tywin is familiar with priests of R'hilor through witnessing Thoros of Myr fight in afew tourneys (and maybe at the battle of Pyke I'm not sure if Tywin was there or not) and after hearing of the great smoke monster that showed up during Eddard's failed escape while thoros was supposedly away chasing Gregor Clegane he put two and two together.

[Kival]

Aha, I don't know if such rumours really exist; I just had the impression nobody knows about Melissandres preaching and her presence at all at this point. Just to remember: We're not allowed to use knowledge out of the books our characters can't possess.

[Beskar]

Thoros of Myr basically put Wildfire upon his sword, and ran around with it. He has no actual powers until the birth of the dragons and when "magic reawakened" within the world.

Tywin most likely thought the goldcloaks to simply be drunken fools than actually believing there is any kind of supernatural powers at work.

[Greyblades]

Except Varys, Sandor clegane, Cercie and even Joffrey were present and corroberated the story.

[Double A]

Varys lies a lot, Sandor will follow Joff's instructions, Joff will follow Cersei's instructions and is crazy, and Cersei is crazy.

[Greyblades]

...Yeah, and?

[The Stranger]

cmon dont make a problem from nothing. he didnt even say something about melisandre, he only said false gods, which can be known for the reasons greyblades stated and he said conjure dark arts which can also be known because of what was witnessed. if tywin would truly believe it or not is debatable but he would definitly use it against stannis if he saw some benefit in doing so. also this is a game so he doesnt have to be like tywin if he doesnt want to.

[Secura]

The fact of the matter is that the post is a problem because it's incredibly metagamey, something that we're trying to avoid slipping into by taking the game in our own strides. Now, I've largely kept quiet in these threads because there should be absolutely no knowledge of Melisandre's existence or anything to link her activities back to Stannis Baratheon, thus I should be keeping to the shadows for the time being, but I find that I have to say something in this instance.

The accusations of sorcery don't annoy me so much, since it's an easy claim to make and it could be falsely interpreted as being the fault of the Starks/Dragonstone's/-insert Lannister enemy here- , but claiming that the nobility are worshipping a 'false god' when there's absolutely no basis for doing so outside of metagamed knowledge? That's a problem.

There are currently no other worshippers of R'hllor in Dragonstone besides Melisandre at this point, so implying that Lady Selyse has converted is utterly unfounded unless one bases their claims on knowledge from the novels. This leads me to wonder; "where are these supposed 'rumours' even coming from?" How is Tywin Lannister hearing about 'false gods' when there's no mentions of such a thing even within Dragonstone itself?

Honestly, every time I see "there's a rumour...", I roll my eyes and sigh heavily because I know it's going to be something metagamey. I signed up to this game because I thought it was an opportunity to engage in a fascinating world and play events entirely differently from the novels, not for information/tactics to be generated from them.

[Kival]

Honestly, every time I see "there's a rumour...", I roll my eyes and sigh heavily because I know it's going to be something metagamey. I signed up to this game because I thought it was an opportunity to engage in a fascinating world and play events entirely differently from the novels, not for information/tactics to be generated from them.

I cannot completly agree here. Yes, nobody should use informations he cannot have in person from the books. But I see no problem in using information, a character has and base tactics or whatever on it.

[Greyblades]

I really dont know why you're going on about it, I only have to persuade JHT that Tywin had the knowledge to make that message, not my opponents.
Heck for all you guys knew I'm making insinuations that Stannis worships the flying spagetti monster.

[Double A]

There's a rumor that Tywin shaves his head because his hair is made of snakes.

[Greyblades]

Yessss, now come here and ssshow me your eyesssssssss!

[White_eyes:D]

Thoros of Myr basically put Wildfire upon his sword, and ran around with it. He has no actual powers until the birth of the dragons and when "magic reawakened" within the world.

Tywin most likely thought the goldcloaks to simply be drunken fools than actually believing there is any kind of supernatural powers at work.

The Goldcloaks wouldn't even tell him, think how it would look...."I couldn't catch him because I was scared of a giant smoke monster that was not even there". They didn't even mention that swordsman from Braavos that schooled them in swordplay because it was too embarrassing.

Tywin doesn't put stock in rumors anyway....where the heck is Greyblades even getting this info from?

[Greyblades]

Must... resist... spilling... beans...

...Actually now that I think about it, we didnt encounter Syrio Forell. Even though we sent ser Barristan to capture Arya. Huh.

[White_eyes:D]

Kinda funny that he defected to....MUST RESIST SPILLING BEANS.

[The Stranger]

The fact of the matter is that the post is a problem because it's incredibly metagamey, something that we're trying to avoid slipping into by taking the game in our own strides. Now, I've largely kept quiet in these threads because there should be absolutely no knowledge of Melisandre's existence or anything to link her activities back to Stannis Baratheon, thus I should be keeping to the shadows for the time being, but I find that I have to say something in this instance.

The accusations of sorcery don't annoy me so much, since it's an easy claim to make and it could be falsely interpreted as being the fault of the Starks/Dragonstone's/-insert Lannister enemy here- , but claiming that the nobility are worshipping a 'false god' when there's absolutely no basis for doing so outside of metagamed knowledge? That's a problem.

There are currently no other worshippers of R'hllor in Dragonstone besides Melisandre at this point, so implying that Lady Selyse has converted is utterly unfounded unless one bases their claims on knowledge from the novels. This leads me to wonder; "where are these supposed 'rumours' even coming from?" How is Tywin Lannister hearing about 'false gods' when there's no mentions of such a thing even within Dragonstone itself?

Honestly, every time I see "there's a rumour...", I roll my eyes and sigh heavily because I know it's going to be something metagamey. I signed up to this game because I thought it was an opportunity to engage in a fascinating world and play events entirely differently from the novels, not for information/tactics to be generated from them.

i understand this, but it only becomes a problem if everyone starts to make a problem of it. i think john will judge fairly about what someone can know or cant use because he couldnt know. in itself that single accusation of heresy wont mean much.

tywin does have access to varys and varys knows much... lets just leave it a that?

[White_eyes:D]

i understand this, but it only becomes a problem if everyone starts to make a problem of it. i think john will judge fairly about what someone can know or cant use because he couldnt know. in itself that single accusation of heresy wont mean much.

tywin does have access to varys and varys knows much... lets just leave it a that?

The fat man????

I think you better get off the egg nog, he puts even less stock in rumors and is more of a "black hole of information" as far as Tywin knows/cares.

Plus these people that you guys are mentioning have EVERY REASON to hide the truth and are only feigning loyalty for their our gain.(Not that we would know this but come on? why would the fat man and LF be loyal to Tywin like lackey's)

[Kagemusha]

It is a mild suggestion.Maybe Tywin heard from a spy at Dragonstone of such things, who knows, who cares? I dont think it is a major issue.

[Montmorency]

Stannis has a mage?

How did Tyrell learn this? He must have mages too.

House Martell cannot condone this mage gap!

We will respond by hiring FIRE MAGES FIRE MAGES FIRE MAGES.

[Greyblades]

The fat man????

I think you better get off the egg nog, he puts even less stock in rumors and is more of a "black hole of information" as far as Tywin knows/cares.

Plus these people that you guys are mentioning have EVERY REASON to hide the truth and are only feigning loyalty for their our gain.(Not that we would know this but come on? why would the fat man and LF be loyal to Tywin like lackey's)

Well he does loaths magic users. Sheesh, its like you think I'm dumb enough to trust anyone for no reason.

[White_eyes:D]

The thing is that it was going to be true but not just yet. It's like saying he knows what Mel is going to do even though she hasn't done it just yet. How does he know she even has "powers" or even that she is going to try and convert everyone to R'hllor or even that she succeeded?

I might as well start predicting what well happen to Robb if he goes to KL's under the Lannister's "guest right" but that is from me reading the books, so better not to say it if it's not confirmed knowledge.

Edit:BTW Greyblades, your playing your Tywin role "Like a Boss".

[Greyblades]

Did I ever say he knows about mel?

[White_eyes:D]

Then how does he know about false god's that Stannis is going to worship(Perhaps) and that Stannis used Witchcraft(I didn't see anything in the write-ups that links him to it just the books, thus I act like I saw nothing)?

[Beskar]

I might as well start predicting what well happen to Robb if he goes to KL's under the Lannister's "guest right" but that is from me reading the books, so better not to say it if it's not confirmed knowledge.

That isn't in the books. He goes to place x for totally unrelated reason.

As you saw in my own message, I said it will be a repeat of Aerys the Mad King. This isn't in the books and it just a pure speculation.

[Greyblades]

Then how does he know about false god's that Stannis is going to worship and that Stannis used Witchcraft?

Come on, you can figure it out. You'd be the first to figure it out, but maybe 35th time a charm.

[White_eyes:D]

It's rather obvious to anyone who reads the books, but what if I didn't? I would guess that it was you or Joffrey with his hired lackeys. Stannis wouldn't admit to doing it as it shows his hand.

@Tiaexz: It parallels the books almost exactly so far, maybe not the Greyjoy thing but you know what I mean. Kinda hard not to think of what is going to happen.

[Diamondeye]

I agree completely with Secura... So far, this game feels incredibly "meta-gamed". I feel like if you consider doing something, ask yourself "is there any of motivation to do this that stems from in-book knowledge?" If yes, don't do it. I'm not here to act out the books.

[Greyblades]

It's rather obvious to anyone who reads the books, but what if I didn't? I would guess that it was you or Joffrey with his hired lackeys. Stannis wouldn't admit to doing it as it shows his hand.

You know, I'm going to tell you when stannis dies and you are going to be so annoyed at how simple the answer is.

[Beskar]

There is a difference between roleplaying and metagaming though Diamondeye.

Stannis will never ever work with the Lannisters, pretty much period. What can be metagamey though is if I would completely ignore my character to do such a thing. In the same light, the orders "Look throughout the city for caches of Wildlife" is metagamey for using knowledge not even possessed by your character to do something you only know from reading the book.

But then there is the other line, where you can act if your character does know something and this is evidenced by the book. For example, Stannis was at king's landing working closely with John Arryn and knew Gendry was Robert's bastard, I could use that knowledge to say Gendry is Robert's bastard.

The books should only be a guide as to what you can know and how your character behaves, outside of that, you might as well throw it on the fire.