Westeros: A Game of Thrones.

[Beskar]

You know that they would have to march an extra 400-500 miles to go "around" using the King's Road, straight into Tywin Lannister's army which was stationed there, compared to going over the twins, cutting 400-500 miles from their journey to relieve Riverrun?

[Greyblades]

Surely im suggesting no such thing. More likely that you now just have to live with it.

Well, anyway, I need not thier sympathies just the trial, if he refuses he comes off as not respecting the law of the land.

[Kagemusha]

You know that they would have to march an extra 400-500 miles to go "around" using the King's Road, straight into Tywin Lannister's army which was stationed there, compared to going over the twins, cutting 400-500 miles from their journey to relieve River-run.

I got that from a 2 second glance at the map, it is quite glaring, I am surprised you couldn't see it at all.

And you are saying that march on broken terrain would be faster then via road? Marching first some 100 miles offroad to Twins and then some 400 miles at broken terrain towards South with also in mountaneus terrain.So in total about 500 miles in offroad and broken terrain, compared to 700-800 miles via major road. Ive marched enough during my military service to understand the difference between marching at road and marching at offroad terrain.

[Beskar]

Was going to edit my post but you beat me to it by replying.



This is the situation, in the book, Rob sent a diversion to Tywin's Army, whilst going to relieve Riverun from a Seige. If he succeeded, he would have gained the support of the Riverlords (So more armies). Delaying time would mean the seige has progressed further, so it is a count down there. Plus, Robb doesn't have the forces to defeat two armies. Each Lannister army is composed of 30,000 men each, Robb only has 18,000 at his command, and he just sent 2000 of those as a diversion, so he is currently facing Jamie's 30,000 with 16,000. What he has is the elemental of surprised and the fact they are seiging. He needs to act quickly and put the situation to his advantage.

He ultimately did the best course of action and the results in the book reflected that. What stood between that is the Twins.

Orange Line:
Fastest Route to Riverrun
Requires the Twin's
Element of Surprise

Pink Route:
Slower Longer Route
Facing 60,000 men with 18,000
No Element of Surprise

[Montmorency]

Eh, this really doesnt matter, riverrun is not under siege and we're not even at war yet. What does matter is the starks response to Tywin's summons, should they back out when challenged or throw away any attempts for compromise without consideration, well, I think quite a number of lords would start wondering if the Stark's claims are legitimate.
Hint, hint.

I wouldn't.

[Kagemusha]

Yes you are right, but in my post i was only referring to the actually fastest route and also pointed out that like White_eyes pointed in the text, what Rob did was the best move in Strategic sense.I am not though quite sure which of my posts are you referring into in your original post?

[Greyblades]

I wouldn't.

Sheep wouldn't eat meat, that doesn't mean the wolf should go hungry.

[Montmorency]

Wolves have been extinct in the south for centuries.

[Kival]

Well, anyway, I need not thier sympathies just the trial, if he refuses he comes off as not respecting the law of the land.

I could answer that now... but why are we again having this semi-ingame dialogues here? That is really awkward. Is that usual here?

[White_eyes:D]

I could answer that now... but why are we again having this semi-ingame dialogues here? That is really awkward. Is that usual here?

The game thread is more for official announcements for your faction. Here is more for playful criticizing or information/etc.

I am kinda happy about it all though, now I know I never need to move though the Twins.

@Greyblades: I think the North would be surprised if Robb didn't declare war after that. Maybe even accuse him of not doing his duty and being involved with his fathers death.

You somehow keep thinking that the Iron throne is a Absolute Monarchy title or something. Truth is that this a Feudal Monarchy system in which the Vassal provides troops and money to his lord in exchange for protection. Killing a head of house is always cause for Civil war in that kind of government.

[Kival]

The King in Westeros has formidable powers though and a strong centralized law for a feudal monarchy - the problem is just, that Joffrey is not the rightfull king ;-).

[Greyblades]

...I'm sorry, but I generally assumed that accusations against a Prince would generally come under the jurisdiction of the Kings justice.

Anyway I'm giving you a chance to get justice in a fair, honorable and, in comparison, bloodless way. Yet you seem to be refusing without so much as an attempt at negociation.

You call for justice, but when justice beckons for you to come forward and state your claim you hide behind your armies and say no, and when you call for others to seek justice you do not so much as give them even a small chance to defend themselves in a court of law. Heck the one time you do so much as pay lip servce to the Laws of the land you kidnapped the defendant and dragged him infront of a biased judge, one I might add who was so struck with grief she would have killed anything that moved if you so much as implied it had something to do with her husbands death.
Heck I'm not even in character anymore, the starks repeatedly demand justice under the laws under the land, joffrey's supposedly a bastard, tyrion's implied to have tried to kill Brandon etc. Yet they sieze innocents on the roads, attempt coups, hold sham trials and when things dont go thier way they throw a tantrum and send an army. They are not coming off as seeking justice, they come off as seeking blind vengance and having no respect for the Laws and traditions thier former head of house held so dear.

[Ishmael]

OOC: Do the Lannisters have Arya in their control at present?

[Double A]

I think the two routes would take roughly the same amount of time, but why is everyone arguing about how long it would take Robb to go southwest when he's going to head southeast?

[Greyblades]

OOC: Do the Lannisters have Arya in their control at present?

If we do we would be parading her around and telling the starks to attend court or she dies, if we dont we would be keeping quiet about it.
Which do you think?

[Beskar]

I wonder where Jyane Poole has disappeared to.

[Greyblades]

Huh, I had forgotten about her, she didnt seem important enough to bother with, I suppose if she didnt go with Sansa she's still in KL somewhere.
I wonder where Beric dondarrion went, he was supposedly on the way to take Gregor Clegane's head yet I didn't get any messages about it.

[White_eyes:D]

The more I look at it, the more it seems apparent to me that you need Dragons to hold the Iron throne and the Seven kingdoms together. That's where the Strong centralized authority comes from, because when all else fails "unleash the dragon" and that fear keeps the nobles in line.

Without them though....

[Greyblades]

If that was true Robert's reign should have been one long disaster.

[Ishmael]

If that was true Robert's reign should have been one long disaster.

...and it wasn't? I can't recall the exact Crown debt at the start of GoT, but it was a lot (note to claimants: you'll be assuming this if you take the throne). And then there's the fact that the court at King's Landing became full of sometimes murderous intrigue, with Houses like Dorne plotting rebellion to top it all off.

[Greyblades]

So? Even with dragons, kings caused debt, houses rebelled and a court full of murderous intrigue was standard.

[Ishmael]

True, but the creditors wouldn't have pressed too hard on the issue of their owed money....

That, and I doubt the assassination of a king would have occurred if he had relatives with dragons waiting in the wings (no pun intended :D). Ditto houses rebelling and engaging in civil war.

[Greyblades]

Well there was the faith millitant uprising that tried to do so, Maegor I was killed on his throne through mysterious circumstances. Jaehaerys I paid for the building of the Nightswatch castle Deep Lake by paying with his wife's jewels, which suggests he didnt have the money to do it himself and didnt want to take out a loan for various reasons.
Anyway this is not the point, the Starks are wussing out of going through legal means and diverting the subject when called on it: discuss.

[The Stranger]

Was going to edit my post but you beat me to it by replying.



This is the situation, in the book, Rob sent a diversion to Tywin's Army, whilst going to relieve Riverun from a Seige. If he succeeded, he would have gained the support of the Riverlords (So more armies). Delaying time would mean the seige has progressed further, so it is a count down there. Plus, Robb doesn't have the forces to defeat two armies. Each Lannister army is composed of 30,000 men each, Robb only has 18,000 at his command, and he just sent 2000 of those as a diversion, so he is currently facing Jamie's 30,000 with 16,000. What he has is the elemental of surprised and the fact they are seiging. He needs to act quickly and put the situation to his advantage.

He ultimately did the best course of action and the results in the book reflected that. What stood between that is the Twins.

Orange Line:
Fastest Route to Riverrun
Requires the Twin's
Element of Surprise

Pink Route:
Slower Longer Route
Facing 60,000 men with 18,000
No Element of Surprise

yup. tho kage is no doubt right about what he said of marching on road and off road. though i think he is mistaken that there are no road between the the Twins, Seagard and Riverrun. so even though they might not be as good as the Kingsroad they are still traveled roads so the orange line of Beskar would still be the fastest, even if you take into account a slower marching speed due to poorer roads.

and iirc there was also mention in the books of heavy (autumn?) rains which made the river swell to bigger proportions which had already swept other crossings over the forks.

[White_eyes:D]

Anyway this is not the point, the Starks are wussing out of going through legal means and diverting the subject when called on it: discuss.

I recall reading why it would have been impossible to hold the North without Dragons, take a look if you want.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The North was one bad decision away from being BBQ'd as well. Torren - the King who Knelt -had brought his forces South; he had them concentrated near the Trident when Aegon came up with his Dragon and informed the Stark King of EXACTLY what would happen if Stark went through with his plan. King Stark listened to his plan and decided, "You know what? It would be SUICIDE for me to continue like this; let's make peace with our conquerors." Torren Stark Knelt and the North was secured without any bloodshed.

Thus marked the very last time a Stark listened to the reasonable warnings of his opponent.

Now, the one problem Dragons would have would be in dealing with guerrilla-type warfare or what we now call "asymmetrical combat forces." See Iraq insurgence, etc. The ability of dragons to fight dispersed enemies that engage in hit-and-run tactics would be severely limited, if not eliminated. This is again analogous to fighting guerrilla fighters with a B-52: yeah, they could destroy the forest, but the enemy may be gone. Here, the case-in-point was Dorne, which was conquered by the Young Dragon (presumably with dragons) but could not be held with dragons. So, in this area, dragons are NOT a cure-all or ultimate weapon.

But by-in-large? They would own Westroes.

The Kings hand was killed with the highest legal protection available, I don't think "guest right" would make him feel any safer. I keep thinking if Tywin found out Joffrey killed a King's hand before he was crowned without a trial, he would have a had a aneurism and died.

[Greyblades]

OK,
1. this is completely pointless.
2. Source?
3. You're not even considering it.

[White_eyes:D]

1. Better then this boring and smashing head against wall topic.
2. Mostly The Westros RTS game/Video game thingie.
3. Not my call.

[Greyblades]

1. Better then this boring and smashing head against wall topic.

*bang*bang*bang* What? *bang* I cant hear you *bang* I think I'm nearly through *Bang* I can feel the concrete getting softer *bang* I taste yellow. *Bang*bang*bang*
thud

2. Mostly The Westros RTS game/Video game thingie.

Oh.

3. Not my call.

Oh come on, Robb's a momma's boy and you're his mother, get influencing.

[The Stranger]

that game looks so bad and totally rushed to be out for christmas and to lift on the wings of the succes of the series.

[Greyblades]

Yeah, it doesnt help that there arent any good SOIAF mods for the total war games.