Phalanxes seem kind of... pointless

[I_damian]

All good advice. I've got plenty to try and will be firing up a Seleukid campaign very soon. Thanks everybody.

Edit - Nope, still totally pointless. I've had many battles, but one in particular I just got done fighting, I had 8 units of phalanx all side by side forming a solid line, on the flanks but a bit back (as Randal suggested) some Thureophoroi and Peltasts and behind those - Cavalry. 2 units of slingers in loose formation in front of the phalanxes. Enemy just bypassed the entire front line, marched AROUND my army, and engaged the very end units of thureoph/peltasts. Half way through the battle not a single unit of Phalanxes had been touched by missiles or infantry or anything else, so one by one I started taking them out of phalanx and off guard mode and using them like legionnaires. By the end of the battle I'd used every single one like legionnaires. Not one pike had been jabbed at the enemy, lol.

And in attack they're terrible. Shift + right click behind the enemy results in them doing some very, very strange things when they actually engage the foe. And right clicking to attack the enemy whilst in phalanx mode is just hilarious. 50% of the time they engage the enemy with the pikes, then TURN AROUND and point their pikes AWAY from the enemy, and let the enemy hack them to pieces from behind.

I'm going to have to go back to playing as Carthage and Rome. This absolute refusal of the AI to march its army toward mine and attack is just too much for me. I don't want to have to engage individual units for an entire battle, I want armies to meet and fight.

[Ibrahim]

All good advice. I've got plenty to try and will be firing up a Seleukid campaign very soon. Thanks everybody.

Edit - Nope, still totally pointless. I've had many battles, but one in particular I just got done fighting, I had 8 units of phalanx all side by side forming a solid line, on the flanks but a bit back (as Randal suggested) some Thureophoroi and Peltasts and behind those - Cavalry. 2 units of slingers in loose formation in front of the phalanxes. Enemy just bypassed the entire front line, marched AROUND my army, and engaged the very end units of thureoph/peltasts. Half way through the battle not a single unit of Phalanxes had been touched by missiles or infantry or anything else, so one by one I started taking them out of phalanx and off guard mode and using them like legionnaires. By the end of the battle I'd used every single one like legionnaires. Not one pike had been jabbed at the enemy, lol.

And in attack they're terrible. Shift + right click behind the enemy results in them doing some very, very strange things when they actually engage the foe. And right clicking to attack the enemy whilst in phalanx mode is just hilarious. 50% of the time they engage the enemy with the pikes, then TURN AROUND and point their pikes AWAY from the enemy, and let the enemy hack them to pieces from behind.

I'm going to have to go back to playing as Carthage and Rome. This absolute refusal of the AI to march its army toward mine and attack is just too much for me. I don't want to have to engage individual units for an entire battle, I want armies to meet and fight.

I'm going to have to see a video of that battle. that just doesn't sound right. maybe the computer is affecting the engine?

[YD23]

Are you playing on a mac by chance? I've been playing EB on my macbook pro on my summer vacation and phalanxes have major issues on the mac rome port. (for example 1 on 1 phalanx v phalanx will just stand in front of each other and go in and out of fight mode. Basically not attacking unless you make one walk through into the enemy unit)

[MButcher]

Have you tried alternating between phalanxes and support troops in the same line? Like this:

----Peltast----Phalanx----Peltast----Phalanx----Peltast

In my experience this always draws the enemy phalanxes toward the line. They still don't attack your phalanxes, but it is an improvement.

[Sapper]

All good advice. I've got plenty to try and will be firing up a Seleukid campaign very soon. Thanks everybody.

Edit - Nope, still totally pointless. I've had many battles, but one in particular I just got done fighting, I had 8 units of phalanx all side by side forming a solid line, on the flanks but a bit back (as Randal suggested) some Thureophoroi and Peltasts and behind those - Cavalry. 2 units of slingers in loose formation in front of the phalanxes. Enemy just bypassed the entire front line, marched AROUND my army, and engaged the very end units of thureoph/peltasts. Half way through the battle not a single unit of Phalanxes had been touched by missiles or infantry or anything else, so one by one I started taking them out of phalanx and off guard mode and using them like legionnaires. By the end of the battle I'd used every single one like legionnaires. Not one pike had been jabbed at the enemy, lol.

And in attack they're terrible. Shift + right click behind the enemy results in them doing some very, very strange things when they actually engage the foe. And right clicking to attack the enemy whilst in phalanx mode is just hilarious. 50% of the time they engage the enemy with the pikes, then TURN AROUND and point their pikes AWAY from the enemy, and let the enemy hack them to pieces from behind.

I'm going to have to go back to playing as Carthage and Rome. This absolute refusal of the AI to march its army toward mine and attack is just too much for me. I don't want to have to engage individual units for an entire battle, I want armies to meet and fight.

I agree with Ibrahim, this just doesn't sound right. Regardless of my previous post on this I never experience anything as bad as you obviously do. In fact I suffer from the stupid AI impaling units on my sarissas, including enemy FMs, much more often than having the phalanxes ignored. Obvoiusly there are times when the AI marches off to a flank and I have to swing my whole line around to face the enemy but then they will usually attack my line, phalanxes and all. I really have no idea what is causing your problem, and as a fan of the Diadochi and their way of fighting I am sorry for you.

[I_damian]

I can't get any videos, I can try to get some screenshots though I guess. I'm not playing on a mac, I'm on PC, RTW 1.5.exe.

[Randal]

I do notice the AI sometimes manoeuvring strangely, particularly if they sally from a settlement or if they bring reinforcements.

While they're going around your army, do you try to turn your army to keep facing their centre? If not, why not? If on the defensive you can usually redeploy much more quickly than the enemy can go around you. If need be, take your troops out of phalanx mode temporarily and make them run to the new position. This didn't happen historically, but neither did armies walk in circles around eachother on the battlefield.

Attacking with phalanxes works fine for me. The facing backwards thing is a guard-mode bug and also happens to my legionaries. You can fix it (as shown in this invaluable thread among many other things.) but it's annoying.

The right-click behind the lines thing works best for me when I'm attacking and the enemy line is being nicely immobile. I send my phalanx in first, keeping my other troops back to plug any gaps that might appear while attacking. I also pay close attention to stop the phalanx at the right moment, sometimes they keep walking too long.

When I have unengaged phalanx units I do not use them as legionaries, instead I draw them up behind/to the flank of the enemy facing the right direction via the right-click-drag method and then have them move forward "behind" the enemy to attack. Works fine, especially against outnumbered enemy phalanxes in siege-battles and such. The enemy gets stabbed to death from all sides.