Netherworld III: Final Judgment [Concluded]

[Beskar]

unvote; vote: Renata

I have been lead to believe that Renata isn't part of the town faction, so either independent or mafia.

Which are you?

[glyphz]

Secura appears to be voting for Renata because she thinks she was metagamed, and she wanted to know what Renata's actions were. Apparently Renata is a scanner (or claims to be one), but that hasn't stopped everyone else from hopping on a bandwagon.

So what makes Renata a good choice for the lynch? Why is she a better candidate than glyphz? Because, as far as I can tell, this lynch is about whether we trust one's word or the other's, because one of them has to be lying. But from where I'm standing, it looks like neither of them are guilty if they've been roleblocked and incapable of killing for several nights.

Renata says that she scans. It looks like she did not scan White_eyes:D.
Secura confirms that Renata was not the one who scanned White_eyes:D, and thinks not too highly of which faction she's w/.
I have to come to a similar conclusion as well.

[Chaotix]

Renata says that she scans. It looks like she did not scan White_eyes:D.
Secura confirms that Renata was not the one who scanned White_eyes:D, and thinks not too highly of which faction she's w/.
I have to come to a similar conclusion as well.

Well, I'm not inclined to listen to much of what you say until you admit that you were active at night, whether publicly or privately.

I have no doubt that you're not a killer, but still. I have no reason to believe that Renata is not a scanner, beyond WIFOM arguments.

[Secura]

Secura confirms that Renata was not the one who scanned White_eyes:D, and thinks not too highly of which faction she's w/.

I didn't debate whether she tracked WE or not, merely that her alignment should be questioned if she is making such a claim.

[glyphz]

I didn't debate whether she tracked WE or not, merely that her alignment should be questioned if she is making such a claim.

sorry.
what I meant was your earlier statement confirmed it for me that Renata was not the one who checked WE_:D.

As for the matter of multiple scanners, I have reason to believe Renata is not of the pro-town kind, but a 3rd-party, at worse scum (esp. since you're not aware of each other).

[dcmort93]

I'm moving up to Indiana from Texas tomorrow for school, so I will be with limited internet access. I'll try my best to keep pu with the thread on my phone and when I get there, but I make no promises. I should be back Tuesday night.

[Yaropolk]

Here is some food for thought: I had Glyphz blocked on Nights 2, 4, and 5, initially because I thought he was the Axe guy. This means he cannot possibly be the Axe guy, the pearly wings lady, the scarlet dress lady, or the green robe guy. I was 100% sure he was innocent so tonight he went unblocked and the dark sword killer showed up.

Glyphz swore up and down via PM that he's a plain vanilla townie. Yet I have a claim from white_eyes (who claimed to be Prometheus, a vote switcher) that his power failed to work on Glyphz, and now Renata claims he's active.

This means either glyphz is lying about being a vanilla townie and is either the black sword killer or some other role. Or both Renata and White_Eyes are lying / mistaken.

I'll take my chances with voting off glyphz, and if dark sword killer shows up, Renata is next.

On a more personal note, Earthling, my protector was killed off last night. If any other doctors are out there, I would appreciate some coverage.

[Yaropolk]

Almost forgot:

unvote; vote: glyphz

[Choxorn]

Here is some food for thought: I had Glyphz blocked on Nights 2, 4, and 5, initially because I thought he was the Axe guy. This means he cannot possibly be the Axe guy, the pearly wings lady, the scarlet dress lady, or the green robe guy. I was 100% sure he was innocent so tonight he went unblocked and the dark sword killer showed up.

Glyphz swore up and down via PM that he's a plain vanilla townie. Yet I have a claim from white_eyes (who claimed to be Prometheus, a vote switcher) that his power failed to work on Glyphz, and now Renata claims he's active.

This means either glyphz is lying about being a vanilla townie and is either the black sword killer or some other role. Or both Renata and White_Eyes are lying / mistaken.

I'll take my chances with voting off glyphz, and if dark sword killer shows up, Renata is next.

On a more personal note, Earthling, my protector was killed off last night. If any other doctors are out there, I would appreciate some coverage.

This is the best case I've seen so far.

Unvote, Vote: glyphz

[glyphz]

Here is some food for thought: I had Glyphz blocked on Nights 2, 4, and 5, initially because I thought he was the Axe guy. This means he cannot possibly be the Axe guy, the pearly wings lady, the scarlet dress lady, or the green robe guy. I was 100% sure he was innocent so tonight he went unblocked and the dark sword killer showed up.

Glyphz swore up and down via PM that he's a plain vanilla townie. Yet I have a claim from white_eyes (who claimed to be Prometheus, a vote switcher) that his power failed to work on Glyphz, and now Renata claims he's active.

This means either glyphz is lying about being a vanilla townie and is either the black sword killer or some other role. Or both Renata and White_Eyes are lying / mistaken.

I'll take my chances with voting off glyphz, and if dark sword killer shows up, Renata is next.

On a more personal note, Earthling, my protector was killed off last night. If any other doctors are out there, I would appreciate some coverage.

I'm vanilla as vanilla gets.


Dude, you need to get more info/confirmation & have your bases covered, before you jump into a conclusion and stick your neck out like that...
Just because a new killer (flame guy) showed up the night I was not blocked does not mean I'm it (&you just said I can't be any of the other killers). This killer looks important. Do you think I'd act the way I did D3 & D4, and try to help lynch myself, if I were the flame killer?

Do you know what night WE:D made an action on me?
Was it on a night you blocked me as well?
Can there be other roles that we're not aware of that could cause the mess we've had. You know well I'm pretty popular night action target.
Are you sure Renata ain't lying or scum? I'm sure you, yourself was not aware of Renata's scan power, esp. when you're aware of someone else being able to scan?
You thought she may well be third party (you voted her yourself).
If you think both lynch candidates are possible scum, you don't need to reveal just yet. (at least, have one of us lynched today, and encourage others to vote off the other the next day.)

You just revealed yourself on a possibility not an assured find, and on a townie no less.
What a fiasco this is...
*sigh*

[Earthling]

I have no reason to believe that Renata is not a scanner, beyond WIFOM arguments.

Renata is basically guaranteed to be lying about how she was roleblocked, targeted by a cult, and other events she claimed happened to her. Especially scummy is that she directly claimed she was not active when she was scanned active according to others, so you'd have to say that not only glyphz is lying but Secura as well, or else disbelieve previous results on people like fluffy and white_eyes which are again claimed due to a second non-Renata, scanner.

So at best you could Renata might be a scanner, and neutral, but she really can't be a second town-aligned scanner identical to another town-aligned scanner that already provided pretty much verified results.

It is worth noting she really has claimed almost nothing at all that actually indicates she is a really a scanner anyway! A shame none of the living seem to have brought this up yet but everything Renata claimed could easily, easily be sponging some ally's info or lying to the town. We have a refusal to claim a couple of scans or she says she missed orders, the scan on God Emperor is ridiculously easy to fake because just about everyone would agree he was an active scum by now. Furthermore, her behavior is extremely contradictory to believing that God Emperor was a scum - if Renata had certain proof she herself had seen and knew GE was a scum, why did she not follow up on supporters and possible allies of GE in any future actions or lynches?

So in the end, the only thing with any meaning Renata claims she's done the entire game is scan glyphz, who is conveniently her rival for a lynch today.

Regarding the cult business as an addendum, it's both worth discussing and pointing out we probably have little reason to believe a cult exists now. Apart from one writeup, they haven't shown back up and the vote progression doesn't seem to indicate enough activity given the size the cult wuld be expected to be. Vote-switching seems like a better explanation now for the one person "seduced" N3, and anyone who still believes otherwise should provide much better explanation, but that's just food for thought.

[Earthling]

I'll take my chances with voting off glyphz, and if dark sword killer shows up, Renata is next.

This is a really inefficient way to go about things. As you said, the roleblocks if true pretty much exonerate glyphz from being nearly every scum killer out there. Just because he wasn't blocked last night doesn't guarantee he's the new killer, that is certainly a poor assumption to make.

But even if you really think this needs following up, the correct answer is to not kill glyphz yet but roleblock him again, or send Axeguy after him or something like that. I suppose if glyphz really worries that many townies so much that they are likely to try to lynch him again then he could also be a good call for Axeguy, but anyway that would save the town from wasting lynches and other townie's night actions.

If he's roleblocked or caught up with Axeguy or whatever and the killer shows back up, glyphz is clear for good.

And if the dark sword killer is tries to frame glyphz he'd have to not send in kills of his own which is also a massive benefit to the town! Whereas killing glyphz if he is a townie now wastes a day and the real killer could be anyone out there.

Also, there's one more good reason to get rid of Renata today. We collectively really need to obtain solid proof of what the writeup looks like when a known neutral is lynched. See khaan's post here:

I won't reveal if a major town role was lynched, and I generally won't reveal whether a mafioso was lynched until its the last one. Note that this game could, possibly, seem to run differently than that, based on player actions. Neutral roles I will always show as having been "different".

So far we have, with what's pretty certain about alignments
Arjos (townie) - immediate execution, no details
God Emperor (mafia) - immediate execution, no details
fluffy (non-basic townie due to night activity) - execution with speech/weirdness, indicates neutral?
ATPG (unknown) - execution with speech/weirdness
white_eyes (non-basic townie due to night activity) - silent before his execution but more extensive writeup

[Romanic]

glyphz is right about him being roleblocked not meaning anything.

If the mafia can perform 1-2 kills per night and get to pick the killer, then it makes sense that we will see a new killer after getting a mafia - I'm assuming White Eyes was mafia here, signs are good about it.

Again, you should be listening to Secura - She lead you to WE, and she was immediately attacked for it. I really can't see why you wouldn't lynch Renata here. Her explanation/claim is unacceptable, if Secura says Renata was active, and she denies it, then someone is lying and it must be Renata.

Also, and this is important, when she is Town, Renata is everywhere in the thread, looking for scum. Believe me, she's not the same Renata here. She isn't really looking for scum.

Lynch here please.

[Riedquat]

unvote; vote: Renata

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, I'll trust Romanic on this one, since it's clear that auto is MIA anyway.

Unvote: autolycus
Vote: Renata

[seireikhaan]

Apologies for my absence. Big thanks to GH for saving the writeup from formatting hell. Round will go another two hours, and then voting will be closed.

[Zack]

Vote: Renata

Sorry, I've been gone all weekend.

[Renata]

I don't really have time to catch up, but it seems someone thought I was the same scanner as who scanned white_eyes? I'm not.

Glyphz was active. He's lying, or some non-town power is messing with me. (The result actually said "glyphz was active", though.) Based on his behavior thus far, which I would have pointed out earlier if not for trying and failing to get the scan in over and over again, I do think that he is lying. I'll make that case tomorrow if I die and he lives, regardless.

If he is vanilla, there's worse problems out there than me getting lynched instead of him.

[Renata]

Vote: Renata

Sorry, I've been gone all weekend.

Why did a scan aimed at you return a result that looked like it hit me? Or is Secura lying?

[Yaropolk]

Meh Earthling, you convinced me to give glyphz a chance. Glyphz if you turn out to be scum you're the luckiest scum out there.
Unvote: Glyphz; Vote: Renata

[Zack]

Why did a scan aimed at you return a result that looked like it hit me? Or is Secura lying?

How should I know?

[Secura]

Why did a scan aimed at you return a result that looked like it hit me?

I don't know how it happened (and the result PM insinuates as such), but you were the target of the tracking rather than Zack, and it said that you were active. I'm not allowed to quote the chatlogs/PMs, so that's the best I can say in the confines of the rules.

[seireikhaan]

Round over, configuring tally.

Renata was lynched. Writeup in progress. Orders may be sent beginning now.

[Earthling]

If he is vanilla, there's worse problems out there than me getting lynched instead of him.

If this is that big of a deal to multiple people, and glyphz continues to claim he's wholly expendable, I'd say we go for an easy compromise and do something that should be acceptable to everyone. Town has time and lynch opportunies to use elsewhere when we can settle this distraction here.

So I'd say an obvious and easy answer is for Axeguy to attack glyphz.

This is reiterating what I said earlier, but I fail to see how this is generally a bad idea, and people should comment on it anyway. Really living townies should be suggesting ideas for Axeguy regardless (unless that's already sorted out and he revealed in private).

That accomplishes at least 50% of the problem there anyway, even if glyphz dies as a townie, which is to get Axeguy to follow the town's collective advice and not kill purely random people and then see what another Axeguy kill looks like.

Still I think the Renata writeup here will be very interesting.

[seireikhaan]

"So the story's almost done, granpa?" the girl asked, eyes drooping a bit. "I'm still not tired!"

"Oh, pumpkin, that was just to get daddy off my back," he cautioned, hands raised from his lap. "Of course, I can't tell you when its almost over. That would make the ending boring, wouldn't it?" The girl nodded her head fervently before crouching down into her blankets once more, holding them just over her nose.

"Coming back to Angra Mainyu's great palace, his followers once more claimed certainty in finding one of the secret agents of the Heavens and Netherworld. Once more, a great accusation was leveled by Secura, who was reputed to have narrowly survived an attack the night before. This time, it was pointed at Renata. Renata herself said she witnessed Glyphz stalking the night in an unsavory manner as well. It was tightly contested at first, with both wondering whether it was Glyphz or Renata who presented the true threat. But in the end, a late of surge of support for Secura urged people onwards to voting for Renata. When the sun began to set on the horizon, the bell ringer gave a mighty clang to indicate the time was come for a decision to be made.

'Step forward, Renata and Glyphz,' Mainyu called, standing in front of his golden throne. 'Support for the death of Glyphz?' A relatively small handful of supporters stepped forward. 'Support for the death of Renata?' A much larger group of supporters stepped forward, defiant glares aimed at Renata. 'And so it is. Renata, step forward. Renata aimed a glance at the group, a small raised eyebrow all that indicated displeasure, before advancing before Mainyu. 'Last words?' Renata merely shot a sideways glance once more at the anxious group who had put her forth.

'Fools...'

Mainyu looked displeased at the address, and did not wait for his sword bearer. He raised his hands high, a caustic red lightning filling the air between them. He crashed it down on Renata. On impact, the lightning struck all the way through her, and she disappeared into a fine, crimson mist.

'And on a similar note...' he said, turning back to the crowd. 'Bring me SoulBlade.' He was shuffled forward by a pack of nervous onlookers. 'The glorious future has no place for the idle. You've done not nearly enough to stake your place in my new world.' And so, Mainyu brought down his wrath on SoulBlade, who was likewise vaporized on the spot.

Turning back to his supporters, Mainyu issued them a last farewell for the night. 'Well, fortune on your hunting tonight, my soldiers! I am confident the noose is tightening still!'




Renata 11 (Yaropolk, Zack, GH, Riedquat, Beskar, Captain Blackadder, Secura, johnhughthom, Deathisyonder, TLD, glyphz)
glyphz 6 (Khazaar, Renata, Believer, dcmort93, Diamondeye, choxorn)
TheLastDays: 2 (warman, robbiecon)
Choxorn 1 (Classical Hero)
GeneralHankerchief 1 (Chaotix)

Not voting: SoulBlade, autolycus, woad&fangs, Seon





Alive: 24

Andres
Autolycus
Believer
Beskar
Captain Blackadder
Chaotix
Choxorn
Classical Hero
Dcmort
Death is Yonder
Diamondeye
Johnhughthom
GeneralHankerchief
Glyphz
Khazaar
Riedquat
Robbiecon
Secura
Seon
SoulBlade
TheLastDays
Warman
Woad&fangs
Yaropolk
Zack



Killed: 10

TinCow (N1)
Tratorix (N1)
Visorslash (N1)
B_ray (N2)
Reenk Roink (N3)
Andres (N4)
Ironside (N4)
Romanic (N5)
Double A (N5)
Earthling (N6)


Lynched: 6

Arjos (D1)
God Emperor (D2)
Fluffy (D3)
Askthepizzaguy (D4)
White eyes (D5)
Renata (D6)

WoK: 1

SoulBlade

[Major Robert Dump]

Hi can someone sum up this game for me in 14 words or less? KTHNX

[Renata]

I'm dead. Boo-yeah. Good luck town, I do believe you're gonna need it.

[Diamondeye]

I'm dead. Boo-yeah. Good luck town, I do believe you're gonna need it.

Is that 14? I think it's an appropriate answer.

[Choxorn]

It's 14 if "Boo-yeah" is 2 words, 13 if it's only one word.

[seireikhaan]

20 minutes to get orders in.