Netherworld III: Final Judgment [Concluded]

[Earthling]

On the topic of me being off in my analysis: We all know I was wrong about Earthling. Believer was definitely something other than basic townie. I don't care if he has "proven useful" in some network, third party roles in Netherworld games have a bad reputation, especially when they claim to work for the town. I haven't extensively pursued anyone else, iirc.

It's not the fact that you were wrong, it's that you directly lied to the town for no discernable reason - if you're a vanilla townie there's no motive you could have had. The argument with Believer alone is worth a lynch but that's just a start. Even if Believer is anti-town, and there's no evidence he is, he's certainly not mafia, there's no reason you should have lied about what was discussed between you two in private.

In fact you're still purposefully trying to mislead people, right here and now, since in the first half of this game you repeatedly and loudly insisted that possible third party power roles should be left to live, based on your judgment of past games, because it's not worth the risk of losing power roles. Recently with the convenience of Believer, Andres, and GH's deaths I suppose, you are arguing the opposite of what you said earlier, that it's good to get rid of any and all power roles.

And of course there are the most important and obvious events that are worth a lynch several times over - multiple scum voted to save you from being lynched, you defended God_Emperor and kept insisting he wasn't scum which can't possible be a valid townie conclusion, and I count not two but at least FOUR people who you publicly and directly argued with or had votes against you that were attacked/murdered by the mafia - B_Ray, Yaropolk, Earthling, and Believer.

[TheLastDays]

At this stage, I don't buy this at all.

If you're repeatedly dodging the lynch and it seems like the town's never going to get around to throwing the noose at you, why would the scum continue to leave you around, if your townie claim is true? After all, you've served your purpose as far as being lynchbait goes, and the longer you're alive the more likely you are to uncover them due to your high level of activity.

It's not you who has to buy it. If the Mafia thinks they can get me lynched I'm lynchbait. You probably weren't Mafia and I ain't so maybe we shouldn't make quick assumptions about what they might do or not do.

This is either a pretty big assumption or some lovely PIS; how can you know that the mafia haven't killed in a while?

What I meant was 1 Mafia kill per night. I made a mistake though in saying they killed the roleblocker, that was GH/Axeguy. They killed Axeguy last night. Anyway, my usefulness as lynchbait might have decreased 2-3 days ago, I'll give you that. The last 4 night targets by the Mafia were you (resulting in the death of Earthling, your protector), you (resulting in your death and you were probably something important), Believer (who was some kind of power role) and GH (who was Axeguy). There were no other Mafia kills. These might just have been more important targets than a basic townie who talks a lot.

It's not the fact that you were wrong, it's that you directly lied to the town for no discernable reason - if you're a vanilla townie there's no motive you could have had. The argument with Believer alone is worth a lynch but that's just a start. Even if Believer is anti-town, and there's no evidence he is, he's certainly not mafia, there's no reason you should have lied about what was discussed between you two in private.

This is cow dung. I never lied about what Believer and I discussed in private. Period. And I'll be personally offended if you keep insisting I did.

In fact you're still purposefully trying to mislead people, right here and now, since in the first half of this game you repeatedly and loudly insisted that possible third party power roles should be left to live, based on your judgment of past games, because it's not worth the risk of losing power roles. Recently with the convenience of Believer, Andres, and GH's deaths I suppose, you are arguing the opposite of what you said earlier, that it's good to get rid of any and all power roles.

I have argued only in the case of GE, that we shouldn't lynch a possible pro town power role on Day 1! Please quote me if I argued that repeatedly in other instances throughout the game. I also never referred to past games as an indication we shouldn't lynch a possible pro town power role on Day 1 without giving him a chance to redeem himself, I only referred to common sense for this decision.

I have always said that, based on earlier Netherworld installments, third party roles are dangerous.

And of course there are the most important and obvious events that are worth a lynch several times over - multiple scum voted to save you from being lynched, you defended God_Emperor and kept insisting he wasn't scum which can't possible be a valid townie conclusion, and I count not two but at least FOUR people who you publicly and directly argued with or had votes against you that were attacked/murdered by the mafia - B_Ray, Yaropolk, Earthling, and Believer.

Which scums voted to save me from the lynch? Where? Don't just claim, prove! Also, yeah, go ahead and blame me for other people's voting patterns.
I defended GE on the reasons mentioned above. I'm still not sure he was scum, it could be though, as if you were never wrong. I'll have a big "I told you so" if he flips townie.
Also, I can't influence the Mafia's kill choices, sorry. According to the writeup of the night you died, you weren't a target though, you died while protecting.

[Earthling]

Your arguments here are rather bad and self-contradictory and I think you know it. You keep saying you think the mafia are down to one guy/one kill left. Yet at the same time you refuse to believe that anybody who is dead was a mafia, even the super obvious non-town. How do you reconcile that?

If you're trying so hard as a townie and had valid reasons for your past votes perhaps it's time to make a shift and start discussing those reasons then. The only thing that was enough of a distraction for you to blend in lately were the massively convenient past couple of lynches on supposed third parties.

So how about we try an exercise, and have you build a case? You must believe that some of the lynched people were mafia if you're a townie, yet you've never acted like you had any case you thought of, except of course the ones that weren't against mafia but people who later got killed at night by them. So instead I'll give you one to build on.

Given that Renata was mafia, who are the other mafia? As stated at the start there's a group of four of them so please list out to that many and provide your reasons.

[Diamondeye]

I like Sec's reasoning. Unvote; Vote: TLD

[TheLastDays]

Your arguments here are rather bad and self-contradictory and I think you know it. You keep saying you think the mafia are down to one guy/one kill left. Yet at the same time you refuse to believe that anybody who is dead was a mafia, even the super obvious non-town. How do you reconcile that?

When have I said that I don't think anyone who was lynched was Mafia? Or even implied that? I am simply voicing my doubts sometimes.

So how about we try an exercise, and have you build a case? You must believe that some of the lynched people were mafia if you're a townie, yet you've never acted like you had any case you thought of, except of course the ones that weren't against mafia but people who later got killed at night by them. So instead I'll give you one to build on.

Given that Renata was mafia, who are the other mafia? As stated at the start there's a group of four of them so please list out to that many and provide your reasons.

Alright, I'll play along.

So far we have seen four different killers who I think were/are the Mafia killers.

- Valkyrie (Lady with pearly wings)
- Lady in bronze scale
- Green robe man
- Hades (Dark sword, fire attacks)

Looking back I have to agree that GE was scum. The pearly lady never appeared again after his lynch. I mistook the other lady for her on one night later and didn't see that until now. There was something else that lead me astray in the night 1 writeup. In Netherworld 1, when a killer had killed and was then attacked himself he it was mentioned in the writeup. I guess he just didn't do it with GE because it would have given GE away to easily.

The Green robe man and the bronze lady disappeared on subsequent nights, after the lynches of Pizza and White Eyes so I guess Pizza and WhiteEyes were scum.

I don't think Renata was Mafia. Hades was the only Mafia killer, even before her death and he didn't disappear after her lynch. I think she might have been some kind of third party.

Based on some analysis, I don't have time for more at the moment, JHT is not Mafia with Pizza. He put him in the tie that eventually got Pizza lynched.

At the moment I'm waiting for the writeup. Given that these three were scum, Zacks voting is very interesting.

[Riedquat]

I like Sec's reasoning. Unvote; Vote: TLD

Now, it should be night...

Edit: Didn't noticed the bunvote! Deadline reached like 15 hours ago... more or less...

[Earthling]

Well that was very constructive. Really, thanks for the effort. Even if you're scum and are trying to use PIS/still mislead us you still put some substantial opinions into that and if it's honest good that you took a look.

That certainly gives other (living) people something to discuss, we've had a bit much of just dead people like me, Secura, and Ironside being the only ones talking about possible connections and alignments.

I do agree Zack's writeup will be rather interesting. Maybe we'll get new leads, and to lay off of TLD for one more thing:

I would ask Diamondeye, mister "no clue what's been going on except for lynching Seon" to do the same sort of thing that TLD did, he's not looking good in general and too active to be dismissed as not a potential threat, but then again maybe all the living people will step up discussion. Any townies should feel free to step up your activity really, we should have a lot of living townies, and most vanilla townies have little to fear, we should catch the mafia in time.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Don't be giving him ideas for even more complicated names! :P

To late!!

[Diamondeye]

I would ask Diamondeye, mister "no clue what's been going on except for lynching Seon" to do the same sort of thing that TLD did, he's not looking good in general and too active to be dismissed as not a potential threat, but then again maybe all the living people will step up discussion. Any townies should feel free to step up your activity really, we should have a lot of living townies, and most vanilla townies have little to fear, we should catch the mafia in time.

... What exactly are you asking of me here?

[Earthling]

Give your opinion on which of the dead (lynched) people was mafia, as really everybody should agree at least a couple of them got lynched at some point already, and what connections you see to anyone still alive.

Since you said you haven't been paying attention or following along much it must be a fresh start for you right? You can look at the writeups and end of day vote tallies and that ought to be enough to give your thoughts, nothing too fancy.

[Diamondeye]

Well, GH was clearly something. I tend to trust Andres despite his weird death/revival shenanigan.

[Beskar]

Well, GH was clearly something. I tend to trust Andres despite his weird death/revival shenanigan.

You was his recruiter?

[GeneralHankerchief]

[Reenk Roink]

I can't believe you killed me just because I kept voting you White eyes, I would have gladly joined your side...

[White_eyes:D]

I can't believe you killed me just because I kept voting you White eyes, I would have gladly joined your side...

Even if I was scum, you think I would risk trusting you after Midgard 3?(Where you helped kill your own side) Come on Reenk, you should know me far better then that.

I will comment here that I honestly hope you win "The Thing" mafia though(If that is you, of course). Anyone bold enough to taunt town before he jumps bodies has already won in my eyes.

[Reenk Roink]

Even if I was scum, you think I would risk trusting you after Midgard 3?(Where you helped kill your own side) Come on Reenk, you should know me far better then that.

I will comment here that I honestly hope you win "The Thing" mafia though(If that is you, of course). Anyone bold enough to taunt town before he jumps bodies has already won in my eyes.

I seriously don't understand how you interpret events.

[White_eyes:D]

Ok so, that whole revealed to a Known scum and dueled and killed a fellow King and revealed another one publicly to be killed was all just an act then?

What about the "don't lynch my daughter or Loki?" I admit I must be to short-sighted to see your plans.

[Reenk Roink]

Ok so, that whole revealed to a Known scum and dueled and killed a fellow King and revealed another one publicly to be killed was all just an act then?

What about the "don't lynch my daughter or Loki?" I admit I must be to short-sighted to see your plans.

Who was the known scum I revealed to? I revealed to TinCow yeah, was he known? No. He had a cover role as my daughter mentioned in my role PM. Not too hard to see why I revealed.

autolycus was the king I revealed so I wouldn't be killed first, and also the one I dueled. There weren't two of them as you imply. He also challenged me, not the other way around. Not my fault I was just too much for him. Oh I guess I kept mentioning glyphz too after he was exposed, but he was publicly exposed.

Except for Nightbringer and TLD, we all trusted Loki. And why not at that point?

So yeah, your interpretations baffle me. Can you tell me why you killed me now?

[Zack]

Round over, writeup in progress.

What happened?

[Choxorn]

You died? :p

[Zack]

No, what happened to khaan.

[Believer]

It's not the fact that you were wrong, it's that you directly lied to the town for no discernable reason - if you're a vanilla townie there's no motive you could have had. The argument with Believer alone is worth a lynch but that's just a start. Even if Believer is anti-town, and there's no evidence he is, he's certainly not mafia, there's no reason you should have lied about what was discussed between you two in private.

QFT, lynch TLD please.

[Beskar]

I just realised what Warman's name actually is... "Gingy Bread Men Milk"... could be read as having some homoerotic undertones to it.

[seireikhaan]

What happened?

Severe case of passed out in my chair at 1 am from tired, followed by 9 hours of class. My apologies, on it.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Severe case of passed out in my chair at 1 am from tired, followed by 9 hours of class. My apologies, on it.

Oh wow, had no idea you were back at class already.

[seireikhaan]

"Now, the next day, when they found two had been slain, there was a great murmur amongst the crowd that their progress had been nothing but an illusion. That, just like this," the old man said with a snap of his fingers, "they would find out they'd been had the whole time. But still, they moved onwards, with a rally by their leader. It didn't take very long before they threw their suspicion at Zack, for having not succumbed to an attack much earlier. Despite his pleas, very near a majority grabbed him and tossed at the steps before their lord. Two guards held blades to his neck as he was forced down before Angra Mainyu.

Mainyu stood from his throne, and waited for a second before speaking. "I believe you're missing another as well. He leveled a pointed finger at Khazaar, who began to panic. Several of the entourage grabbed him and forced him next to Zack. One for cowardice and laziness, the other for treachery,' Mainyu declared. 'Both sins against the great, one future! So we shall prune the unfit from our ranks, so that the mighty and glorious may create a better future!'

And so, he held out his hands, an intense red energy bouncing back and forth between them. They burst in a flash, and both the condemned vanished, leaving only a black scorch mark where they were. With his task completed, Mainyu sent the remaining followers back. As they left, some began to wonder just how many needed to be pruned before this glorious future would be at hand..."




Zack 8 (Glyphz, Beskar, TLD, autolycus, Riedquat, Chaotix, Choxorn, woad&fangs)
Chaotix 3 (warman, DiY, Diamondeye)
Choxorn 1 (Zack)
TLD 1 (Captain Blackadder)

Abstain 2 (Dcmort, MRD)

Not Voting 3 (Classical Hero, Khazaar, JHT)






Alive: 16


Autolycus
Beskar
Captain Blackadder
Chaotix
Choxorn
Classical Hero
Dcmort
Death is Yonder
Diamondeye
Johnhughthom
Glyphz
Major Robert Dump
Riedquat
TheLastDays
Warman
Woad&fangs



Killed: 14

TinCow (N1)
Tratorix (N1)
Visorslash (N1)
B_ray (N2)
Reenk Roink (N3)
Andres (N4)
Ironside (N4)
Romanic (N5)
Double A (N5)
Earthling (N6)
Believer (N7)
Secura (N8)
Yaropolk (N9)
GeneralHankerchief (N9)


Lynched: 9

Arjos (D1)
God Emperor (D2)
Fluffy (D3)
Askthepizzaguy (D4)
White eyes (D5)
Renata (D6)
Seon (D7)
Andres (D8)
Zack (D9)

WoK: 2

SoulBlade
Khazaar

[TheLastDays]

Alright, we need to analyse voting patterns in regard to the fact that GE, Pizza and WhiteEyes were scum. I think that's the most likely situation, unless the sentence in the writeup, about our progess being "nothing but an illusion" is a hint that the killers are still alive but simply not killing, whoch would suck.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Alright, we need to analyse voting patterns in regard to the fact that GE, Pizza and WhiteEyes were scum.

Incorrect on at least one point: I was never scum. I am in fact still a townie.

The streak of leaving me alive as mafia and lynching me as townie continues.

[TheLastDays]

It's possible. Still the green guy vanished after your death so until he reappears I'm inclined to believe you were him. Anyway, we need to lynch Hades now and if the Mafia's not down after that we can go back looking at who among the three of you wasn't actually scum.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's possible. Still the green guy vanished after your death so until he reappears I'm inclined to believe you were him.

Who else died around that time? If the green guy died the night before, it would appear the exact same way.

I know for a fact I am not the green guy, I was townie.

It doesn't really matter, even if you assume I'm guilty that shouldn't impact the game too much. I'm not going to try to influence lynches or offer opinion on suspects as I have not been following closely, but if it does matter, I object because I was in fact townie, still am, albeit slightly deader.