Netherworld III: Final Judgment [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Every indication is that lynching woad&fangs was worse, and several other past lynches it would have been better to have another townie not die in place of TLD.

He's dead now. So that just saved you from lynching him, and it spared everyone else who was more valuable to the town.

You lost this point. This point is MINE.

The cult is claiming you were a cultist, any thoughts on that?

Sure, I have thoughts on that. Except I'm dead.

My loyalty has always been to the town. Revive me and I'll say more. Otherwise, leave me dead. I've said everything I know of which will assist the town. All I had info on was TLD, he's dead now. Therefore I have no further info, and I've saved you from one terrible lynch.

I've done my duty to the town. Now you guys must lynch Hades.

Further debate about myself and TLD is pointless, focus on Hades.

[Earthling]

Further debate about myself and TLD is pointless, focus on Hades.

If TLD was lynched and anyone else killed at night than w&f or Chaotix, the town would be better off. Losing woad&fangs as a townie was absolutely worse than lynching TLD would have been.

Knowing what you were is important to determining what the writeups indicate. Your death showed you were not a townie, if you were cult it helps us determine who else was cult based on independent evidence.

Chaotix is not Hades and the evidence for that is better than any evidence you ever had about anyone. So get talking to people about that if you really want people to pursue Hades.

[Beskar]

The cult claims all members retain their normal victory conditions, such townies are still townies, as the cults victory conditions (get rid of the mafia, etc) is the same as the towns. So Pizza invited to the cult would still retain his township, and thus, he would still be working in the interests of the town regardless of that.

Edit:
Major Robert Dump gave us more information on that here:

My goal, according to my cult PM, is to eliminate the mafia and keep the cult alive.

[Earthling]

The cult claims all members retain their normal victory conditions

Yeah, MRD's post literally just contradicted that.

I get that cultists are going to vote with the cult. They think they have little to lose, and they're probably wrong, but it makes sense. When it gets down to 4 or 5 people left and Hades was one of the members of their cult all along they at least have another lynch or so to have a chance at it.

What is a terrible move at this point is townies going along with the cult. That cuts down on our chances of winning in every single way, and not all of you can be converted by the cult in time if that's what you're hoping for. It's like folding a pair of aces because the other guy might have a straight draw.

It could turn out to be a winning move if Hades is later lynched by sheer luck, or Hades kills the cult leader for us, or something improbable, but it's still a bad move.

[Diamondeye]

Why is Classical Hero still alive.

[classical_hero]

Why is Classical Hero still alive.

Cry me a river.

[Chaotix]

Ok, if I get lynched by the cult because the townies would rather sign their own death warrants than vote with me, then I'mma be pretty pissed.

Being lynched because you're all cultists is fine. Being lynched because the ones who aren't can't be arsed to make an intelligent vote is another.

Unvote, Vote: johnhughthom

Please, let us kill the cult leader so that they can stop taking over our lynches. Beskar, you wanna lynch me, save it for tomorrow and bring it back up then. Right now if you vote me out, whether I'm pro-town as I say or scum like you think, we're all going to lose if that cult doesn't die.

[Major Robert Dump]

I don't claim to know all the cults victory conditions, just my own. Unsurpers within an organization are not uncommon in mafia games. I was recruited on my 2nd night in the game.

[Earthling]

Wow, I've come across a really crazy coincidence.

please read this people, it's extremely interesting no matter what

Had to play Devil's Advocate, the rational thing to do. So looked at some writeups, trying to figure out who mafia killers were:

Who was the green robed killer?

He does appear to be a man. Much more interesting is an extremely unusual power

A second round of knocks came, a bit more forceful this time. Still, he stayed put. Maybe twenty seconds later, a faint light shone through the bottom of the door. The door shifted colors, from dark brown to a pale yellow. A similarly colored mist began seeping into the room, blocking the door frame from view. Yaropolk heard footsteps. A oddly foreign man stepped into the room, dressed in a glittering, dark green robe, with a dark moustache and beard hanging from his chin.

Regardless, he inserted his key into the door, and twisted. The key stuck in place. He jangled it more, but to no avail.

“Having trouble?” Ironside whipped around. A bearded man, in a strange green robe was only a foot behind him.

“How? What?” Ironside stuttered out. He hadn't heard anyone approaching.

“Your door won't open, will it?” Ironside shook his head. The man nodded in response. “Good, it seems everything's in order.

It's an extremely hard to disregard clue.

Here's the ridiculous part. It kinda matches both the roles of Chaotix and classical. Especially if one of them is actually a different god/goddess and lied/has a cover identity.

From wiki:

Janus was also involved in the spatial aspect of transitions as that of presiding over home doors, city gates and boundaries

As a goddess expected to avert demons from the house or city over which she stood guard and to protect the individual as she or he passed through dangerous liminal places, Hecate would naturally become known as a goddess who could also refuse to avert the demons, or even drive them on against unfortunate individuals.[66]

It was probably her role as guardian of entrances that led to Hecate's identification by the mid fifth century with Enodia, a Thessalian goddess. Enodia's very name ("In-the-Road") suggests that she watched over entrances, for it expresses both the possibility that she stood on the main road into a city, keeping an eye on all who entered, and in the road in front of private houses, protecting their inhabitants.[67]

This function would appear to have some relationship with the iconographic association of Hecate with keys,

I was going to ask Chaotix about one other thing but that can wait, finding the second passage on Hecate made me really reconsider what's up here. Hecate also had some associations with Hades but I'm by no means a mythology expert here.

If anybody else can find mythological connections - a lot of things about both these gods are lacking. But anything about doors/keys that explains green robes and bearded man. It wouldn't be inconceivable the player just looked up and chose a different god to use as a cover role then.

[Earthling]

No, actually, forget classical/Hecate on this point. It seems far too strong of a clue related to Janus.

This leaves us with so many massive problems that I can't follow up on tonight. Or it could be false, but really confusing.

Any scenario with Chaotix as another scum leaves someone else alive as Hades to start.

And so many things he's done all game would be astoundingly ridiculous and bold moves as a scum, forgoing kills, fabricating info to make townies look Innocent, not killing off the cult which would obviously defeat him.

Still if he could explain more about who he's roleblocked and everything he knows about being Janus that would be nice.

[Earthling]

...and classical spelled Hecate wrong for no obvious reason I can imagine plus the revival of Andres doesn't really seem to mesh with her at all.

However I'm now very certain we've missed some large clues in the writeups that could help figure out what gods might have been involved in some instances.