Netherworld III: Final Judgment [Concluded]

**Earthling** · 09-02-2011, 09:12

I don't really trust that classical, plus you spent way too long before coming forward. Why don't you confirm some of the members and goals of the cult?

Also, extremely crazy theory inbound. And that's saying something, maybe I'm just too tired.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**classical_hero** · 09-02-2011, 09:20

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hekate

Hecate or Hekate (ancient Greek Ἑκάτη, Hekátē, pronounced /ˈhɛkətiː/, in Shakespeare /ˈhɛkət/^[1])

Do you believe me now?

**Earthling** · 09-02-2011, 09:30

It's not that, it's that I don't trust the host used an alternate spelling. Sounds cover-roley. Also zero things in the revival of Andres match wiki stuff for Hecate that I could find, snakes for hair, torches, the moon, none of it clearly referenced.

On the Janus issue I am one for missing the stupidly obvious possibility. That would be:

Should Janus be a dead scum after all, Chaotix took a real role of his dead teammate and claimed it for himself with townie reflavoring. Still huge issues for Chaotix to be the last scum here, but somehow something must add up.

So on top of explaining his roleblock targets it would be nice if he could explain very specifically how being Janus causes him to end up doing that.

If anyone living knows, or anyone dead is able to ask khaan and then hint, what was the actual god/goddess role of our dead town scanner? Especially if it's also Greek.

xpost edit - I should trust your judgment on the roleblock info, that sounds reasonable. I know I'm out of luck trying to convince living people not to lynch you. I still wouldn't, I can say you're not Hades till my face is blue but that's no helping. So the roleblock info I wouldn't object to personally but wouldn't delude myself it will help the town/lynch here.

how's the doppelganger theory look to you? Or just too wild of a guess?

Or, anyone from Netherworld I know of plot links/interaction with Hades? Stuff that could explain why everyone, or at least main town/mafia, seem to be Greek and Roman here (and neutrals other pantheons...seems like that should really mean something if true).

**Earthling** · 09-02-2011, 09:43

Nobody expects the host to explain every part of every god/character's identity in each writeup. But when a clue appears, have to ask:

Who else could the clue possibly be?

Or do we think the door thing is not a clue?

Any quick search clearly identifies Janus as a very good fit. Also for example I found one more thing:

Originally one face was always bearded, the other one clean-shaven; later both bearded

I'm still obviously willing to accept you personally are not scum Chaotix. It's the characters, and the one killer sounds way too much like Athena too.

Plus the appeal of the theory is it's a brilliant game setup, should the town gods appear like the killers role reveals would be incredibly dangerous, but at the same time if they die deprives the negaverse mafia of kills or something like that.

That's too much from me now and on a new topic that really would need attention from others. However, the take on the writeup clues I mentioned right at first there is something we could use from several players. I don't see how they can not be actual clues, even if they point to a better god/explanation in the end, it's much better than blind guessing.

**TheLastDays** · 09-02-2011, 10:31

Well Hades in Netherworld I was completely different. He started as a sk and after 4 killings was able to revive two players who then became his mafia buddys. In the end he won and became the new god of the underworld (formerly something-khaan). Now in this game he IS already the god of the underworld and he'd be with the invaders that want to stop Mayniu.

Anyway.

There's something I've been asking myself: If the cults sole victory condition is for Ishtar to "mate" with Mayniu to guarantee her own survival, that sounds more like a lover role than a cult leader. Why would she be able to recruit anyone for that reason? What does having a large group of followers do towards that goal? Nothing. Therefore I believe the cult has other agendas as well and we need to know what that is. Or we just blindly lynch who is very probably the cult leader (JHT) and lynch Hades tomorrow.

**Death is yonder** · 09-02-2011, 15:43

Well in the end all that is being said is this:

a) Chaotix cannot be seriously using the excuse that being a god = unrecruitable because classical has disproved this, and unless you want to propose with evidence that someone else did the revive, you basically cannot dispute that the fact is that being a god does not inhibit recruitment

[You might want to nitpick that it was claimed that Andres was recruited via the revive, but what I recall the fact of the matter being was that Andres was alive long enough to have been recruited following his revival in a night phase and thus Earthling cannot so easily discount it.]

b) The fact that he is unrecruitable irrelevant of possible godhood raises the only other power role available, scumbag

Irrelevant of any other nitpick with the details you may possibly have, fact of the matter is that:

1. A revive happened
2. There is no evidence to suggest that anybody other than classical did it, which supports his claim of godhood, especially makes sense because IIRC he claimed to be god of death or something
3. It thus cannot be the case that his supposed "pro-town god" status prevented chaotix from being recruited
4. The only other logical conclusion is that Chaotix is the mafia

In any case, what is being put on the table is a chance at a united joint win, it has already been mentioned that is part of the victory conditions.

To reiterate:
You may choose a definite lose scenario by prolonging the mafia's existence

OR

You may accept a shot at a united victory that is otherwise unattainable. Unless you would like to do the most foolish thing available at hand which is to attempt to trust the mafia.

What does having a large group of followers do towards that goal?

Well for starters you could realize that you can't force the lynch, even if you solicited the mafia's help, which is definitely going to go well from a townie point of view. It isn't even a third party offering "oh let us be your vigilante for suspects", this is a clear cut mafiosi plain and simple.

Then next you could realize that we want the mafia dead, and what better way to do that than voting.

I must admit I'm torn between humor and pity that Beskar has worked out through reveals and stuff that the only way for town to possibly secure a win is to trust us (and some aren't listening to him in the 'interest of pursuing victory' which is already essentially being offered), I mean, the offer here is to work together to eliminate the mafia, contrary to what might be expected, I fail to see how that can go wrong.

Essentially what some are proposing is that you leave the mafia alive, because evidently getting rid of the mafia is somehow unimportant in the grand scheme of having more townies alive.

**woad&fangs** · 09-02-2011, 16:08

The cult should reevaluate their membership including starting members. Hades may be a traitor planted in the cult like Lucifer in the first game. Secondly, the town needs to leave the cultists alone and lynch an unconfirmed role like Glyphz, Johnhughtom, or Warman.

**TheLastDays** · 09-02-2011, 16:20

The thing is, that it's possible that Chaotix is not the Mafia. It's not proven that he's the Mafia. It is perfectly possible that your little cult has been infiltrated by whoever is the last Mafia standing.

Because, IF what you say is true, what is this cult other than a forced pro-town network with a little side objective of "mating" their leader with Mayniu? Then, IF that's the case, what does our host love to do? Confuse pro-town networks. So, why in the world do you see the following as conclusive evidence: 1) We were able to recruit one pro-town role. 2) We can obviously recruit every pro-town role! - That's simply not enough evidence to declare Chaotix scum, simply because he wasn't recruitable.

Now here are a few other things, that we have no conclusive evidence for:

1) The cult's goal is the same as the town's goal, only the cult leader has to "sleep" with Angra Mayniu.

Well, you failed to provide reasnoning why Ishtar would need a recruiting ability for that. That's a simple lover role, nothing else. Why recruit massive numbers of townies? What does Ishtar need them for?

2) Angra Mayniu is a role in this game.

Now, that's your goal, right? You have to find him. Haven't found him yet, I suppose. Where's that power role? The writeups don't point to that at all. The role of the "lynchmaster" in Netherworld 1 + 2 was never a role in the game itself. Also, if you are so nice to offer the town help in defeating Chaotix, who is, or so you claim, the remaining Mafia, why have you not asked for a favor in return? Like, i.e., a personal reveal of Angra Mainyu to one of your esteemed cultlings? Because you aren't really looking for Angra Mainyu, are you?

3) You control the town's vote.

MRD himself doubted, in hs private conversation with me, that you have as many members as you claim to have. Also, if it's true, why do we even have this discussion? Why ask the town for their votes when you can simply go through them and lynch whomever you will?

Ladies and Gentlemen, the cult has been lying to the town all along. Beskar, if you haven't been recruited, only contacted, open your eyes and realise the truth.

It's very simple actually, I don't believe statement 1) and 2) and we can put statement 3) to a test. I believe the cult leader is johnhughthom. Everyone who is still in control of their own vote, vote JHT today and we'll see where it gets us! If he isn't the cult leader, the chance that he's Hades is as high as with anyone else. If he is the cult leader, we should have one problem less and face 2-3 more days to eliminate Hades!

**Riedquat** · 09-02-2011, 16:19

pff... if Ishtar can't recruit how do you explain Andres, MRD and classical claims? All were recruited by her...
All this is utterly confusing! And the mythology thing just blew up my fragile mind, I liked more when TLD was the most suspicious person around...

**Chaotix** · 09-02-2011, 09:29

The Green Robe Guy can't be Janus, for the simple reason that Janus has two faces. That's like his calling card, two faces- one looking into the future and the other looking into the past. There's a lot of stuff in ancient mythology that tends to be marginal and tangential. For example, Poseidon is the god of the sea, but also of horses.

Anyway Earthling, I'm perfectly capable of giving you the roleblock list, but it's also inherently a list of targets for Hades to kill. I made the mistake last round of mentioning who I was going to roleblock, and Hades jumped right on it. I give the town that list, and he'll be killing more people that aren't suspects- I'd much rather we be able to eliminate suspects by him killing them. The most prudent option, IMO, is for me to tell you when the town is heading toward a bad lynch, so we can change direction.

That said, if this is what you guys want from me to spare my life (say so), I'll give it to you.

Or, you know, we can continue down the path we're going and lynch the roleblocker and let the cult eat us. That works too.

**Beskar** · 09-02-2011, 09:39

Chaotix give the list to me, I can guarantee it will not fall into the hands of Hades (since I am not Hades and will not share it unless prompted by you in thread) !