why did the west commit to multiculturalism?

[Viking]

The more and more this thread goes on, the more and more it becomes painfully clear multicultralism is a buzzword for BROWN PEOPLE

On the Norwegian countryside, people of different ethnicities appeared long before immigrants did. They were adopted. If you see someone in my home municipality of a non-Norwegian ethnicity, then they are most likely adopted and are a part of local culture.

[Louis VI the Fat]

On the Norwegian countryside, people of different ethnicities appeared long before immigrants did. They were adopted. If you see someone in my home municipality of a non-Norwegian ethnicity, then they are most likely adopted and are a part of local culture.

TOLD YOU NOT TO FEED AND SHELTER THOSE SWEDES NOW YOU'LL NEVER GET RID OF THEM EVER AGAIN

[HoreTore]

TOLD YOU NOT TO FEED AND SHELTER THOSE SWEDES NOW YOU'LL NEVER GET RID OF THEM EVER AGAIN

Silly Frenchie, the Swedes are employed waiting our tables, tapping our beer and peeling our bananas



Got to love that youth unemployment rate in Sweden!

The last book on my shelf has a habit of falling down, and I'm thinking about hiring someone to keep it up. Ironside, you interested in this? Pay is one shiny coin per month, you'll live like a king back in your hometown!!

[Shibumi]

This discussion fall into the trap of, well, any other discussion on this topic.

It quickly derails from "why did the west comit to multiculturalism" to "why are you hating brown people" (Sorry if I stepped on your TM StrikeForTheSouth).

And that, this whole all, pretty much explains why I am against multiculturalism. I have by myself witnessed how society is worse of from it, I have however not seen one hint of any factors making up for it.

So to you all who are against those who are against a multi-culti society - why are you FOR it?

StrikeForTheSouth, you seem to be an avid defender of the browns right to citizenship in western countries, what are your arguments towards why this would be a good thing?

So, to derail this topic back to where it started.. Why would a society, feel free to use Sweden as an example, be better of for accepting Afghan and Somali refugees?

I for one have nothing against English or Spanish immigration. I even think we should accept a Somali or two. Maybe even a few thousands! But I see no gain in going OTT on the whole issue.

I would accept a few thousands because it is the right thing to do. And I would expect them to adhere to Swedish rules.
I would not accept several thousands. And I am not ok with them wanting to change society at large to their rules.

[HoreTore]

Why I'm for it?

Because we benefit economically. And so do they. Win-win to me.

And because I realize that it's basic human nature to seek a better life for yourself and those around you.

[Shibumi]

Why I'm for it?

Because we benefit economically. And so do they. Win-win to me.

Source? No really, do back that up. Might be true for Norway, you have about 1/10 of the immigration of Sweden. All I know is that this is very much false for sweden.

And because I realize that it's basic human nature to seek a better life for yourself and those around you.

Yes, hence I am for immigration as long as it does not start to hurt the nation too much.

[HoreTore]

Source? No really, do back that up. Might be true for Norway, you have about 1/10 of the immigration of Sweden. All I know is that this is very much false for sweden.

Have I ever cared about Sweden?

Europe as a whole have been riding on the single largest economic boost in human history. No other boom has ever come close to the upturn we have experienced since the 60/70's. In this time period, several things have been markedly different from what has been done before. Globalization and immigration has been a major feature of it. I can't see how it can then be a negative thing.

As for country-specific issues, Norway would've tanked a long, long time ago if we hadn't found a source of fresh bodies to fill up our vacant positions. Too low unemployment causes all kinds of trouble, you know. Even today, unemployment in the greater Oslo-area is +/- 0%, something you banana-peeling immigrant swedes currently take advantage of.

On a personal level, try adding up what it costs our society to make a newborn child into an 18-year old worker. His hospital bill for the birth, the doctor appointments he will have later in life, maternety leave for the mother and father, kindergarden, a monthly check from the state to the parents every month, education, etc etc. Then add in what the parents and family pay in food, clothing, housing, etc etc.

The number you have now, is the maximum amount(-1) we can give an immigrant which will still be an economic gain for our society. The number is huge, and much more than we give the vast majority of immigrants before they start working. And we could've given them even less, if only our immigration process wasn't designed to keep as many as possible out.

They should be given a job the minute they step off the plane. After all, that is what most of them are here for, yet we grind them into apathy by forcing them not to work and lay on the couch for a couple of years while we decide their fate. Any psychiatrist can tell you that recovering from a year or two of idleness is incredibly hard.

[Subotan]

This discussion fall into the trap of, well, any other discussion on this topic.

It quickly derails from "why did the west comit to multiculturalism" to "why are you hating brown people" (Sorry if I stepped on your TM StrikeForTheSouth).

And that, this whole all, pretty much explains why I am against multiculturalism. I have by myself witnessed how society is worse of from it, I have however not seen one hint of any factors making up for it.

So to you all who are against those who are against a multi-culti society - why are you FOR it?

I still haven't seen a definition by the critics of multi-culturalism of multi-culturalism at any point in this thread. Define it, and I'll answer.

[Fragony]

Multiculturalism = xenophilae

[Skullheadhq]

Multiculturalism = xenophilae

Xenophiloi would be the correct spelling, or Xenophiles if you want it part English.

[rory_20_uk]

Multiculturalism: where other, non indigenous people have come and transplanted all their own culture along with them, not to meld with the native culture, but to be a separate entity.

In its most extreme form different clothing, different language, no desire to intermarry and whose descendants do not view themselves as from the country they were born in either.

A simple example. I am English. Is that Viking, Saxon, Celt, Roman, French, Danish or one of possibly a dozen others? I neither know nor care. A colleague of mine defines herself as Tamil. Born in Slough. She has certainly integrated to a degree but she refuses to describe herself as English even though she is as English as I am, as we were both born here.

When she has spoken of finding a husband she would either look to other Tamils in the UK or go back to Sri Lanka (go back? She never lived there!) to find one.

It is this outlook that I am opposed to.

[Adrian II]

Multiculturalism: where other, non indigenous people have come and transplanted all their own culture along with them, not to meld with the native culture, but to be a separate entity.

In its most extreme form different clothing, different language, no desire to intermarry and whose descendants do not view themselves as from the country they were born in either.

A simple example. I am English. Is that Viking, Saxon, Celt, Roman, French, Danish or one of possibly a dozen others? I neither know nor care. A colleague of mine defines herself as Tamil. Born in Slough. She has certainly integrated to a degree but she refuses to describe herself as English even though she is as English as I am, as we were both born here.

When she has spoken of finding a husband she would either look to other Tamils in the UK or go back to Sri Lanka (go back? She never lived there!) to find one.

It is this outlook that I am opposed to.

My wife has an American lady friend who was born and bred a Roman Catholic, and I mean Catholic with all the trappings. She scoured the Interwebs, local Catholic organisations and summer camps for ten years looking for a nice Catholic boy to marry. I teased her: "Why don't you try a Jewish boy for a change? At least you'll eat well and laugh a lot." Her answer: "No, I can't, I'm looking for commitment."

Shees, as if Jewish boys couldn't commit.

AII

[Furunculus]

Multiculturalism: where other, non indigenous people have come and transplanted all their own culture along with them, not to meld with the native culture, but to be a separate entity.

In its most extreme form different clothing, different language, no desire to intermarry and whose descendants do not view themselves as from the country they were born in either.

A simple example. I am English. Is that Viking, Saxon, Celt, Roman, French, Danish or one of possibly a dozen others? I neither know nor care. A colleague of mine defines herself as Tamil. Born in Slough. She has certainly integrated to a degree but she refuses to describe herself as English even though she is as English as I am, as we were both born here.

When she has spoken of finding a husband she would either look to other Tamils in the UK or go back to Sri Lanka (go back? She never lived there!) to find one.

It is this outlook that I am opposed to.

good description of the problem; are you my familiy, with a commitment to me and mine, whom i can rely upon to act in a predictable and acceptable way in times of hardship? if "yes", it is worth my while extending the same commitment to you!

[Subotan]

Multiculturalism: where other, non indigenous people have come and transplanted all their own culture along with them, not to meld with the native culture, but to be a separate entity.

Ok, sure. I'm going to a pain in the arse, and ask you to be a bit more specific; how do you define "separate entity"? Is it on a group or an individual basis? Are, say, the British Chinese who live in various Chinatowns, despite identifying as British, examples of this? If so, why does this arrangement constitute a problem?

In its most extreme form different clothing, different language, no desire to intermarry and whose descendants do not view themselves as from the country they were born in either.

This is something which will change with time, I think and assume. If you look at the USA, throughout the late 19th and early 20th century, there are plenty of examples of nativist Americans who dissaproved of the Irish, Germans, Italians, Japanese etc. all bringing those traits over to the United States. Gradually, those differences have blurred and faded to the point where "hyphenated-American" is for the vast majority of Americans now a mere semantic expression.

The one thing which they did adopt was the United State's citizenship, as it was so easy to acquire. This helped speed assimilation and integration, and is why I think a tolerant approach would be more successful than any attempts at forced integration.

A simple example. I am English. Is that Viking, Saxon, Celt, Roman, French, Danish or one of possibly a dozen others? I neither know nor care. A colleague of mine defines herself as Tamil. Born in Slough. She has certainly integrated to a degree but she refuses to describe herself as English even though she is as English as I am, as we were both born here.

When she has spoken of finding a husband she would either look to other Tamils in the UK or go back to Sri Lanka (go back? She never lived there!) to find one.

Tamils are a special case, given that their sense of nationhood is particularly sensitive, occasionally to the extent of rather unforgivable apologism for the LTTE. Depending on the sensitivity of the person in question, prodding them about it can be a fun game. That said, I get your point. Modern technology helps keep those ties stronger, for better or worse. However, these differences will fade with time. I would be genuinely surprised if her kids, who would presumably grow up in the UK will feel the same way. After all, we've seen the same arguments used towards various immigrants to this country - Jews from Eastern Europe, Huguenots, Irish, German Lutherans, Africans, African-Caribbean etc. All have effectively assimilated into a British society that has changed to accommodate them.