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  1. #1
    Retired Senior Member Prince Cobra's Avatar
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    Default Byzantine scent

    The 22nd International Congress of Byzantine Studies is in my homeland Bulgaria. Apart from shamelessly promoting this event, I want to open this topic. What does the word "Byzantine" call in your memory?

    In my early teenage years, some of my classmates joked I looked slightly creepy "like a Greek" (Bulgarian idiom that probably came from the century old rivalry between the Bulgarians and their Southern neighbour). At the same time, I got a book on world history that had a fantastic resume of several hundred pages on the Byzantine culture, politics and etc. A bit of gaming interferred as I was familiarised with AoE II and since there were no Bulgarians, I picked the closest civilisation (albeit a mortal enemy but a cultural pattern ). You see how it all summed up. The more I read, the more interested I got. At the same time I developed some taste for XI-XIV century history of Southeastern Europe.

    Well, maybe it will partially fit the cliche but actually, that's my point of view for "Byzantine": rich culture, refined ceremonial, diplomacy, treasures, ability to survive. I would not reserve the intrigues and treachery only for the Byzantine court: they actually existed in every single court around the world. Reasons for the term "Byzantine" to become a synonym of insidiousness was the contrast between the "barbarians" (who set in formerly Roman territories) and the Roman feeling of superiority; this was later enhanced by the difference between the Western and Eastern Christianity and the search of an excuse to sack the riches of the Empire. Actually, one can easily see how intrigues dragged the Byzantine Empire to its bottom. From Manzikert to the sacking of Constantinople by the Crusaders lightly invited by Alexius IV who wanted to reclaim his father's crown. And of course, there are always the Civil wars of the 14th century, which finished what was left of the Byzantine vitality.

    The biggest problem of the Byzantine Empire, which was also its blessing, was its position between East and West. In many ways, it suffered the same trends the West did but it could not afford because of its geographic location.
    Last edited by Prince Cobra; 07-27-2011 at 17:03.
    R.I.P. Tosa...


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    The Rhetorician Member Skullheadhq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantine scent

    The first thing that comes to my mind is Basileios II Boulgaroktonos, who knew how to handle them Bulgarians
    But some other things that come to mind is of course Justinian the Great with Belisarius and Narses, Iconoclasm with Leo III, Alexios Komnenos, the Theme system, John Palaiologos and of course the great hero-emperor Konstantinos XI Drageses-Palaiologos.

    Oh oh, I really am a Byzantophile :)
    Last edited by Skullheadhq; 07-29-2011 at 13:44.
    "When the candles are out all women are fair."
    -Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46

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    Retired Senior Member Prince Cobra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantine scent

    Quote Originally Posted by Skullhead View Post
    The first thing that comes to my mind is Basileios II Boulgaroktonos, who knew how to handle them Bulgarians
    Oh, that was very impolite.

    On a more serious matter, Basil II is really remarkable but I blame him for the decline in the following decades. He failed to put order in his family affairs. He failed to marry and produce an heir. That's actually not such a big drama if he had managed to arrange a suitable marriage of at least one of the daughters of his brother Constantine VIII. Unfortunately for the Empire, Constantine VIII decided to marry his daughter Zoe on his deathbed when she was too old (and her husband was also a bit senile). The other daughter of Constantine Theodora refused to marry and even reigned as the second female monarch of Byzantium for a brief period of 2 years.

    And actually, today (29th) is the date of the battle of Kleidon that was decisive for the conquest of Bulgaria. I actually think the monstrous blinding of 14 000 Bulgarian prisoners was a sign of desperation of Basil II (he died of old age only about 10 years after that) but produced an unexpected effect on the health of the Bulgarian Tzar Samuel. That was actually an epic war between two Empires that lasted for about 50 years. Byzantium had the advantage of a secure base such as Asia Minor and the riches of Constantinople whilst actually, almost none of the Bulgarian lands were spared by a Russian/Hungarian and later Byzantine invasion.

    But Basil II is truly one of the greatest statesmen and generals of the Byzantine Empire, one of the few real warrior Emperors and it's not surprising that's the first association for him.

    I could not resist decribing all the things above and let's hope I have not been very boring.



    Quote Originally Posted by Skullhead View Post
    But some other things that come to mind is of course Justinian the Great with Belisarius and Narses, Iconoclasm with Leo III, Alexios Komnenos, the Theme system, John Palaiologos and of course the great hero-emperor Konstantinos XI Drageses-Palaiologos.

    Oh oh, I really am a Byzantophile :)
    Actually, talking of Byzantine rulers, my association would also include some rulers such as John II Comnenus (1118-1143) for his balanced rule, John III Vatatzes (1221- 1254) who prepared the reconquest of Constantinople (ironically, this was exploited by another person from another dynasty Michael VIII). These were not that spectacular but did a lot to strengthen the Empire from inside. And apart from the theme system, Alexius I did a major reform making the pronoia as the basis of the imperial military. I still think the Empire needed time and relative peace to make it work but that did not happen.
    R.I.P. Tosa...


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    The Rhetorician Member Skullheadhq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantine scent

    The Palaiologoi-dynasty was pretty good, since in the relatively short time it was in power it produced many great and wise emperors, one of them created controversy to this day, Manuel II Palaiologos. He said "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached", when the pope quoted this in 2006, rage in the muslim world ensued. So funny.
    "When the candles are out all women are fair."
    -Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46

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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantine scent

    Things that come to mind: (i.e. do not require a visit to wikipedia)

    - a generally well-run state that preserved Roman and Greek traditions, while western kingdoms struggled to imitate them
    - an empire that, despite popular perception of being weak and fragile, managed to last a millenium against Persian, Arab and Turkish invasions
    - intrigue and deception; not because I'm particulary familiar with their politics but because some older works of fiction use the terms "Byzantine" in that sense.

  6. #6
    The Rhetorician Member Skullheadhq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantine scent

    Intrigue and deception yes. They used to blind or castrate emperors/pretenders so that he couldn't be emperor anymore. And Anna Komnenos is of course infamous when it comes to intriguing.
    "When the candles are out all women are fair."
    -Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46

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