Clan mons historicaly correct?

**Hamata** · 08-18-2011, 15:59

Are these historicaly accurate i'm talking about the faction symbols here as I allways wondered myself

**NightwindKing** · 08-18-2011, 16:48

Yes.

Couple things to keep in mind though:
A Clan's kamon was not set in stone...I mean, the general aspects of it were (three lotus leaves, in red). But the details not so much. A Daimyo would have the Kamon of his family (the clan's kamon), as well as his own personal one. Which would probably be a variation of the family one. Then his son would have his own variation, and so on.

In addition, armies and batallions had their own kamon, and towns had their own, and prefectures, and businesses.

So the flags in Shogun 2 are accurate, in that the clan's/general's kamon goes at the top, below that would be the unit/batallion kamon (an arrow, for example), and below that the captain's or town's kamon that the troops are from.

As to the accuracy of the actual kamon, they appear to be accurate to the 'generic' or most commonly used ones for those clans.

If you do a look up for the Taira clan for example, a lot of times they use the geometric pattern seen in the game. But sometimes they have a butterfly. Etc..
The Takeda clan, on the other hand, that kamon hasn't really changed much in the last couple hundred years.

The Date clan is actually the only one I'm suspicious of, because it's rare to see a clan-wide kamon with that much detail used that uniformly. More likely it would be like, all the Date units would have the 2 herons and some representation of whatever that plant is, but not all would have it in that arrangemend (birds in the middle, plant outside) and not all would have the same number of leaves, poses of birds, etc...

Also Kamon colors weren't really important. Clans had colors but the mon were just symbols. Most would be plain white or black, whichever would show better on whatever background color the daimyo chose.

**Kagemusha** · 08-25-2011, 08:33

The heraldry in the game is very much simplified.I am guessing because it would have been a real pain to represent it correctly.

**Arjos** · 08-25-2011, 12:57

They are somewhat ok, but they should be in various colours and many clans used more than one...
Also vassals wore their own kamon...

**Kagemusha** · 08-25-2011, 13:45

Also all the Nobori flags are generic and havent seen a single one being historically correct. There are no O uma Jirushi or Ko Uma Jirushi in the game at all.

So very simplified. Just as an example a large army could have had 10 or more contingents with each of them their own set of heraldry, but the "regiment" system of TW cant support such thing.

**NightwindKing** · 08-26-2011, 13:15

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Also all the Nobori flags are generic and havent seen a single one being historically correct. There are no O uma Jirushi or Ko Uma Jirushi in the game at all.

So very simplified. Just as an example a large army could have had 10 or more contingents with each of them their own set of heraldry, but the "regiment" system of TW cant support such thing.

Well there ARE ko uma jirushi... it's just that they're only on the campaign map. That's what those little round things near generals' units are. But yeah, very generic.