London riots

[Centurion1]

I don't understand. There is no support for BNP in London?

Reasonable people is what he likely said in his mind with an upper crust british accent before taking a sip of tea and nibbling on a crumpet.

Then he asked God (who is an Englishmen of course) why he rid England of the joy of Empire.

Then he tottered off to a fox hunt

[a completely inoffensive name]

Reasonable people is what he likely said in his mind with an upper crust british accent before taking a sip of tea and nibbling on a crumpet.

Then he asked God (who is an Englishmen of course) why he rid England of the joy of Empire.

Then he tottered off to a fox hunt

Oooooooh. Ok then. Lol, this post made my night.

[Adrian II]

It seems that groups of people found out of there is enough of them they can just roam around stealing things from shops and setting whats left on fire. They don't seem to have a objective other than be violent and loot.

Quite.

People have to be socialised in order to suppress these tendencies in them. Socialised not just by their parents, but by society as a whole. It's too late for these looters anyway. I guess what we're seeing is a return of nineteenth century mob violence. People feel worthless and it shows in the way they destroy everything of value, including the fabric of their own neighbourhood. It's selfdestruction, as Enzensberger says.

AII

[Tsavong]

Yep self-destruction and violence and I guess they are counting that someone cleans up after them so when they stop they have somewhere to live.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Question: If a looter steals 5,000 pounds in cash from various stores and reports it on his tax forms, will he get in trouble?

Philosophical follow up: If he is willing to pay income tax on the money he has stolen does this make the act less reprehensible, even by a little?

[Centurion1]

Question: If a looter steals 5,000 pounds in cash from various stores and reports it on his tax forms, will he get in trouble?

Philosophical follow up: If he is willing to pay income tax on the money he has stolen does this make the act less reprehensible, even by a little?

A. Yes it is a crime. If I report 50 dollars from that ho I beat up on Canal street I am going to be in quite a bit of trouble.

B. No it does not. Not even slightly. If anything it makes it worse because you now know a complete imbecile managed to steal 5,000 pounds and get away with it.

[Adrian II]

Question: If a looter steals 5,000 pounds in cash from various stores and reports it on his tax forms, will he get in trouble?

I guess not. Our bankers do that sort of thing all the time, don't they?

Philosophical follow-up: if one of these looters spends his loot unwisely and goes bankrupt, will he be bailed out by the government?

AII

[a completely inoffensive name]

I guess not. Our bankers do that sort of thing all the time, don't they?

Philosophical follow-up: if one of these looters spends his loot unwisely and goes bankrupt, will he be bailed out by the government?

AII

There's the zing I was going for!

[HoreTore]

Steal a thousand, and you're a thief.

Steal a million, and you're a shrewd business man.

[Fragony]

Philosophical follow-up: if one of these looters spends his loot unwisely and goes bankrupt, will he be bailed out by the government?

AII

Every month, usually the 26th

[naut]

Kinda funny how people can get more harshly than I could ever be

Yep. There is a big difference between a tough, but fair reaction and an outright vindictive reaction.

[Adrian II]

Every month, usually the 26th

You didn't get the point.

Will he be compensated for the loss of his loot?

AII

[Centurion1]

You didn't get the point.

Will he be compensated for the loss of his loot?

AII

This is all a flawed premise assuming his loot is declared legal by the government. Which it will not. It will be seized and e will no longer have to pay for rent or food. Because he will be arrested for grand larceny.

[PanzerJaeger]

Here's a question for those closer to the situation. Are the rioters making an effort to destroy the CCTV cameras or are they relying on their face masks and/or not caring?

[Fragony]

You didn't get the point.

Will he be compensated for the loss of his loot?

AII

He will be bailed out so he can get some more if we got to make a parallel with banks

[a completely inoffensive name]

Here's a question for those closer to the situation. Are the rioters making an effort to destroy the CCTV cameras or are they relying on their face masks and/or not caring?

Perhaps they are relying on the anonymity of the one in the many?

[Centurion1]

Here's a question for those closer to the situation. Are the rioters making an effort to destroy the CCTV cameras or are they relying on their face masks and/or not caring?

Far too stupid and unorganized for that.

Plus when people are in a mob state they don't think about things like that. Mobs don't think they can be blamed for anything because of the group nature of the act.

They underestimate the police going through as many tapes as possible and collaring as many of these chavvy fellows and shipping them off to Australia (that is where British criminals go right?).

Edit: dammit acin.

[Boohugh]

Here's a question for those closer to the situation. Are the rioters making an effort to destroy the CCTV cameras or are they relying on their face masks and/or not caring?

Listening on BBC news today there are some rioters who aren't even bothering to cover their faces so the police are just going round arresting them all this morning from the CCTV images! There are so many CCTV cameras around London it would be impossible to destroy or even find all the ones on any given high street so even if the rioters do destroy one or two they'll still be seen on half a dozen others.

[econ21]

RETREAT!!

I don't see anything in that video that warrants a laughing smilie. It terrified me. Those eight policemen were in real danger. These riots now eclipse the Broadwater Farm riots of 1985, where one policeman in a similar situation stumbled and was then killed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Keith_Blakelock

[a completely inoffensive name]

I don't see anything in that video that warrants a laughing smilie. It terrified me. Those eight policemen were in real danger. These riots now eclipse the Brixton riots of 1985, where one policeman in a similar situation stumbled and was then killed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Keith_Blakelock

DEVILS ADVOCATE: And what is the difference if the policemen were in charge of the situation? G20 showed that police brutality will lead to civilian deaths.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/g...incidents.html

(disclaimer: this is from the point of view of someone in favor of the riots, not my own opinion)

[Fragony]

Holland-England cancelled, is there anything you brits won't do to avoid certain defeat, even if it is friendly

[Centurion1]

DEVILS ADVOCATE: And what is the difference if the policemen were in charge of the situation? G20 showed that police brutality will lead to civilian deaths.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/g...incidents.html

(disclaimer: this is from the point of view of someone in favor of the riots, not my own opinion)

eh I don't give a damn. You wanna loot and burn and riot? You do so at risk of your own life. If troops or police went out and enforced martial law then this would all likely be over soon. And do not say that this is treading on their rights to protest. Because they are not protesting. You cannot be allowed to riot in the name of some protest. You cannot loot and flip cars and commit arson in the name of protest. You are a criminal and you should be happy that live ammunition is not used.

That harsh statement being said I think once this all dies down we will see a very gleeful police force watching all the cctv footage they can and arresting as many people as possible while they flip them off for being idiots.

[Boohugh]

Holland-England cancelled, is there anything you brits won't do to avoid certain defeat, even if it is friendly

Ah, they're on to us, quick - hide!

[a completely inoffensive name]

eh I don't give a damn. You wanna loot and burn and riot? You do so at risk of your own life. If troops or police went out and enforced martial law then this would all likely be over soon. And do not say that this is treading on their rights to protest. Because they are not protesting. You cannot be allowed to riot in the name of some protest. You cannot loot and flip cars and commit arson in the name of protest. You are a criminal and you should be happy that live ammunition is not used.

That harsh statement being said I think once this all dies down we will see a very gleeful police force watching all the cctv footage they can and arresting as many people as possible while they flip them off for being idiots.

Gahhhhhhh, I was going for a reaction from econ21 or one of the other Brits in here. Why did you have to destroy this crappy argument so quickly?

[Adrian II]

eh I don't give a damn. You wanna loot and burn and riot? You do so at risk of your own life. If troops or police went out and enforced martial law then this would all likely be over soon.

Yeah, and a lot of innocents woud be killed too. People protesting the looting, people trying to defend their shops, trying to get their kids off the streets or whatever. Simplistic 'solutions' such as yours only make things worse.

AII

[Centurion1]

Yeah, and a lot of innocents woud be killed too. People protesting the looting, people trying to defend their shops, trying to get their kids off the streets or whatever. Simplistic 'solutions' such as yours only make things worse.

AII

What world do you live in? In my world people don't go out during riots and protest those rioters. And if people did do that then there would be a lot more dead and injured right now in Britain. People defending their shops are at risk from the police actively fighting looters more than the looters themselves? My simplistic solution would clear the streets in under 5 hours and would result in far less property damage and loss of life. You make it sound like I am suggesting we put SWAT snipers on the roofs of every building, drive tanks through the streets, use live rounds, and threaten to drop a daisy cutter if they don't put down that plasma screen TV.

Non lethal methods are renowned for being non lethal in most circles.

[a completely inoffensive name]

More vids:

[econ21]

There are stories of a group of Turks standing together and warding off a gang of rioters in one area.

Sounds like what this video shows:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2...n-riots-london

Good on them, although it would obviously be better if the police could be there to do the job for them (as they themselves request). However, the rioters/looters are using decoy fires, Blackberry messenger networks and hit and run tactics to evade the police, striking at areas all over London. Last night was the worst so far, spreading to five or more other cities (Birmingham, Bristol, Nottingham, Leeds and Liverpool) with copycat disturbances.

[a completely inoffensive name]

LONDON -- As political and social protests grip the Middle East, are growing in Europe and a riot exploded in north London this weekend, here's a sad truth, expressed by a Londoner when asked by a television reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?
"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?"

The TV reporter from Britain's ITV had no response. So the young man pressed his advantage. "Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news...nd-london-riot

[Adrian II]

What world do you live in? In my world people don't go out during riots and protest those rioters.

That's what I'm saying, you have no idea of the real world. All this sabre-rattling about martial law is irrelevant. I suppose the military could and should be clled on in the preent situation, but not under martial law conditions including suspension of habeas corpus and shooting on sight and such. That's just plain idiocy.

AII