EB II Mechanic and M2TW AI (and other stuff)

[Aper]

Just so you know: we were some of the first modders to create new models for MTW2, back in January 2008. We helped in the beta tests of KnightErrant's first versions of the model and animations convertor (which would later be expanded to GOAT). We started modding the phalanx in March 2008, and made many animations for the phalanx which haven't been disclosed yet. We have tested the phalanx more than anyone else in these last 3 years. When many mods where just making small changes to the vanilla models and others were converting RTW models to MTW2 we made all our models brand new, each one with thousands of possible variations when rendered ingame.

I won't go further on this because I think you are smart enough to learn the lesson: get yourself well informed before you post offensive remarks.

What exactly you find offensive? Misinformed, I can understand, but offensive it's something different. It seems you get offended very easily man... Anyway, I have already apologized, so your "lesson" come too late, I fear.

Ah, and thanks for getting me better informed about your work, great as always (no sarcasm here).

Surely all factions will have some kind of free upkeep troop, this is a major part of making M2 a superior game to Rome, allowing the player to form large armies very quickly - especially in defence. Just that whereas most factions will get cheap levies as free upkeep troops, the AS etc get phalangites. Seems reasonable to me.

AFAIK the problem is that the AI can't handle the free upkeep feature, so it will be an unfair advantage to the player: the AI just doesn't understand that keeping units in towns helps to save money.

[LusitanianWolf]

AFAIK the problem is that the AI can't handle the free upkeep feature, so it will be an unfair advantage to the player: the AI just doesn't understand that keeping units in towns helps to save money.

Well, that's what the money scripts are for, I gess! :P


Thanks all for answering my questions

[Ichon]

The only solution I've seen for phalanx is a very large shield value. That way fighting to the front and blocking arrows is great, sides somewhat weaker, while the back is much more vulnerable. Of course its hard to do that and stay consistent if you are trying to make stats follow some rules but sometimes the effect trumps the consistency- at least I think so. Not sure how the EB team will do it. I can think maybe HP could be used but HP and effective against armor are difficult to balance since they don't scale as well as other stats.

I've recently played around a bit with different stats helping test some mods and it can be interesting results. IE- 1 HP unit vs 2 HP is very stack difference and makes the rest of the states very secondary. However 2 to 3 HP or more improves that alot but does still make balancing difficult as to make the battles not take forever it requires some large offensive stats and is basically a huge amount of work since it starts to make armor and some other things relatively less important. So to model skirmishers without much armor or a shield requires 4 HP while high armor elites with high defense skill and a shield might get 3 HP and then the skirmishers don't die to some things so quickly but get them into melee with that elite unit and even with much lower stats they do a bit too well just because of the 1 extra HP.

[antisocialmunky]

I could see the shield stuff but the main issue is attacking from behind because men in RTW/M2 engine just kinda turn and then the shield value applies and poos all over the AP trait. Of course we haven't really seen the phalanx yet (Macedon Preview Plz?) so its too early to judge. Is it not possible to just increase the poke animation fast enough that people get poked away like in RTW?

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Is it not possible to just increase the poke animation fast enough that people get poked away like in RTW?

Pokepokepokepokepokepokepokepokepokepokepoke...... it's a poke phalanx! ;)

[Arjos]

The only solution I've seen for phalanx is a very large shield value. That way fighting to the front and blocking arrows is great, sides somewhat weaker, while the back is much more vulnerable.

This could work if they wouldn't turn to face the enemy even if engaged, not to mention the switch to secondary weapons...
Maybe a solution is to have the AI with phalanxes in guard mode, and the player should avoid exploiting that XD

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Maybe a solution is to have the AI with phalanxes in guard mode, and the player should avoid exploiting that XD

I always leave my phalanxes in guard mode since they just behave to odd if you let them loose. That said I'm an old guard-moder anyway hehe. I would definitely welcome the AI using guard mode.

[Gustave]

I always leave my phalanxes in guard mode since they just behave to odd if you let them loose. That said I'm an old guard-moder anyway hehe. I would definitely welcome the AI using guard mode.

They are in guard mode by default, so the AI will use it.

We'll probably remove the swords an give a very low attack value to the spears (1 or 2). Many mods did that, third age TW for exemple. It's actually not so bad.

[Arjos]

They are in guard mode by default, so the AI will use it.

We'll probably remove the swords an give a very low attack value to the spears (1 or 2). Many mods did that, third age TW for exemple. It's actually not so bad.

The axes as secondary were very useful, pitty to lose them :P

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

The axes as secondary were very useful, pitty to lose them :P

Yes, that is a problem. Phalanxes will be even less useful in flanking maneuvers and in towns. But in a way it's good, getting away from town battles is good.