How much does the AI Change between Easy and Legendary?

[NightwindKing]

So, been playing through a Date campaign on normal/medium/whatever the default difficulty is. And maybe it's just me, maybe it's just because I'm used to playing MTW on legendary, but...holy crap my enemies suck!

I even handed the reigns of one battle to my little brother at one point. And he crushed them, despite a poor strategy.

I know the AI is nerfed at Easy and buffed at Legendary. But what are the actual differences? Are there stats anywhere? Because I just had an enemy force sally out of a castle that I was loathe to assault (due to their large numbers). Sure I would lose, since my men had been un-supplied for some time and their force had a much larger percentage of samurai units than mine, I set-up defensively and decided to try and just kill as many in a bottleneck as I could.

I set-up in a hydra formation with a pair of companies of Bow Ashigaru on each of two opposing hills. Behind them in the woods atop the hill were two pairs of Yari Ashigaru. In the center, in the valley between the hills, I set up a thin line of three Yari Ashigaru companies, and behind that I had two companies of no-dachi samurai and one of Yari samurai. My general's unit took the right corner between the valley line and the hill Ashigaru (since they had been slightly below strength for a while).

Basically, the AI outnumbered me by about 400. He advanced four companies of Bow Samurai to attack the western hill and was quickly punishing my poor peasant archers. Luckily, despite the enemy being in a good defensibly position at the bottom of the hill, he idiotically decided to advance his archers. At which point I had my hillside Yari Ashigaru sweep around the flanks and pin them in the middle.

Thinking things were going well, I advanced my battle line to meet the enemy samurai advancing down the valley. Then things went bad. Likely due to the earlier massed arrow fire, my entire left flank snowball-routed (it collapsed). I was sitting there thinking I was screwed, pulling-back my center and trying to decide how to salvage the situation, when he brought ANOTHER three companies of bow samurai up the eastern flank. Impatient, I charged down the hill with my Yari, bowmen providing support, and was able to pin their archers in the woods.

With nothing left to hold my left/western flank, I charged my general's unit into their mass of archers.

And they broke and ran. Their entire army routed and I slaughtered them to the last man.

What the hell? They were crushing me!! Is something wonky or did I do something right? I'm so confused...

[econ21]

I don't think we have hard information on this. I asked for it in a Q&A we sent to CA, but their answers seem to have got lost on someone's desk over there.

What I can say is impressionistic. I haven't tried Easy, but the jump from Normal to Very Difficult/Legendary seems pretty steep. Normal seems to allow you to pull off great victories in adverse circumstances. I am not sure if it gives bonuses to you or is really a level playing field. Higher difficulties probably give subtle bonuses to the AI on the battlefield, but my limited experience is that the AI becomes much nastier on the campaign map - it recruits more troops and is more aggressive/unfriendly to you.

What you described sounds quite reasonable - CA are rather keen on "rock paper scissors" gameplay (cav>archers/swords>spears>cav), so charging a nasty heavy cavalry unit into a mass of archers is not going to end well for the archers. In my abortive attempts at a VH Takeda campaign, I lost count of how many times my general's unit was the last man standing, routing army after army. I gave up because at the strategic level, I was being endlessly worn down - not because I lost any battles.

[RedKnight]

My impression in moving from Normal to Hard is that the AI is more aggressive with its stacks, as you say, Econ21. Also it may be using its agents more intelligently.

[NightwindKing]

Well I started a hard campaign the other day.

So far the AI's battle strategies seem about the same, although I've been more cautious because of a need for troop conservation.

As you've said though the AI seems much more agressive and unfriendly on the campaign map. And holy crap these stupid peasants won't stay down! Four successive rebellions in the same province, and all because the province was 75% Christian! Jeez! Why isn't there a "cull unruly peasants" option for the Metsuke?

That said I've also found that I see the Wokou pirates a lot more in Hard than normal. Although I captured every one of the five ships they sent against me.

[RedKnight]

holy crap these stupid peasants won't stay down!

If you study the changing icons for happiness in each provice, you should never be surprised. A couple of tips:
1) It doesn't matter how happiness is at the end of your turn, only what it will be at the beginning of the next turn. So if a Sake Den is almost done (+2 smiles) and repression is going from -4 to -3, well then you have 3 happiness you don't need to worry about. You can move out or kill 3 police, if you were at -2 or whatever.
1b) Corollarry: Any new garrison force made will be there at the beginning of next turn.
2) Be careful of generals and agents who may add happiness or suppression (same thing) until they move out.
3) Resistance To Invaders increases, as you take more provinces. Your first few provinces have none, but by the time you have 12 or so (all depending on difficulty etc.), it will never go below 4.
4) Look for red provinces on the Finance screen (key N) before ending each turn, if ever unsure. After a while you will call this screen your friend. Red provinces are ok if you understand everything involved.

The pirates are a harrassment. You have to make a fleet that can deal with many contingencies. Before that, you have to make an economy that can support the contingencies.

RK

[I_damian]

Well, on easy and normal, if at the start of the game you move your whole army in to an enemy province, leaving your capital defended only by a single general, even if you're at war with a neighbour and even if they march in to your land, they will purposely make tactical blunders, such as not attacking your capital even though they could overpower the lone general and his 30 Samurai retainers with ease. They'll just mill around eating your fruit and, if they're feeling particularly warlike that day, destroy one of your buildings.

On hard, they'll just go straight in for the city and wipe you out on turn 2, like what happened in my Takeda campaign this morning. First time I've ever lost a campaign since Medieval: Total War. (the first one from like a decade ago).

[NightwindKing]

If you study the changing icons for happiness in each provice, you should never be surprised. A couple of tips:
1) It doesn't matter how happiness is at the end of your turn, only what it will be at the beginning of the next turn. So if a Sake Den is almost done (+2 smiles) and repression is going from -4 to -3, well then you have 3 happiness you don't need to worry about. You can move out or kill 3 police, if you were at -2 or whatever.
1b) Corollarry: Any new garrison force made will be there at the beginning of next turn.
2) Be careful of generals and agents who may add happiness or suppression (same thing) until they move out.
3) Resistance To Invaders increases, as you take more provinces. Your first few provinces have none, but by the time you have 12 or so (all depending on difficulty etc.), it will never go below 4.
4) Look for red provinces on the Finance screen (key N) before ending each turn, if ever unsure. After a while you will call this screen your friend. Red provinces are ok if you understand everything involved.

The pirates are a harrassment. You have to make a fleet that can deal with many contingencies. Before that, you have to make an economy that can support the contingencies.

RK

1. My problem is that I end my turn building, say, a sake den, two units of yari ashigaru, and a Metsuke going-in to oversee the town, and in-between the end of my one turn and the start of my next, a rebellion appears, even though it was only at -2 or -1 when I ended the turn (I never let it get below that...and that only because Im forced to move my army away from the city).

3. Ah! I didnt know that. Good to know! Thank you!

4. I usually do, but I can never tell what black provinces are...they never seem too much different in output/happiness from green ones???

@ Damian
Good to know. Yeah I re-started my Date campaign last night and on turn 2 I saw that both the Tokugawa and the Shimazu had been destroyed. yikes!

[frogbeastegg]

4. I usually do, but I can never tell what black provinces are...they never seem too much different in output/happiness from green ones???

Black provinces are ones you have exempted from taxation. They have an increase in happiness, and bring you no money. If the province is deeply unhappy the happiness bonus from tax exemption will still not be enough to prevent revolt.

Have you tried checking for enemy agents promoting unrest in these problem provinces? Send a ninja or metsuke scuttling around the map in that area, see if anyone shows up. Then try assigning them to the castle on the 'free' mission for a few turns, in case there's an agent which passed the sight check and wasn't noticed during the casual scouting. You are not 100% guaranteed to spot enemy agents this way, but the chance should be very high unless your people are low level and the enemy high level.

Is your daimyo dishonourable? There's a happiness penalty for having less than 3 points of honour.

Booting out enemy army remnants can be important as well; your people grow unhappy if an enemy army is ravaging the countryside.

I take expansion slowly and steadily, keeping my army in place in newly conquered castle for a few turns. That lets some of the unhappiness pass whilst repression is high. I can then add in agents, a garrison, temporary tax exemption, and happiness buildings if I feel I will need them once the big army moves on. Repairing the castle and other damaged buildings is a high priority; I issue the order the turn I take over. I aim to keep 100% religious unity in all provinces and at all times; the monks/missionaries are sent in as soon as I spot a province which doesn't completely follow my chosen religion.

I confess I don't see many happiness problems, even though I play on the highest difficulties. Thanks to these methods I have not seen a single revolt in any of my games.

[NightwindKing]

Black provinces are ones you have exempted from taxation. They have an increase in happiness, and bring you no money. If the province is deeply unhappy the happiness bonus from tax exemption will still not be enough to prevent revolt.

Have you tried checking for enemy agents promoting unrest in these problem provinces? Send a ninja or metsuke scuttling around the map in that area, see if anyone shows up. Then try assigning them to the castle on the 'free' mission for a few turns, in case there's an agent which passed the sight check and wasn't noticed during the casual scouting. You are not 100% guaranteed to spot enemy agents this way, but the chance should be very high unless your people are low level and the enemy high level.

Is your daimyo dishonourable? There's a happiness penalty for having less than 3 points of honour.

Booting out enemy army remnants can be important as well; your people grow unhappy if an enemy army is ravaging the countryside.

I take expansion slowly and steadily, keeping my army in place in newly conquered castle for a few turns. That lets some of the unhappiness pass whilst repression is high. I can then add in agents, a garrison, temporary tax exemption, and happiness buildings if I feel I will need them once the big army moves on. Repairing the castle and other damaged buildings is a high priority; I issue the order the turn I take over. I aim to keep 100% religious unity in all provinces and at all times; the monks/missionaries are sent in as soon as I spot a province which doesn't completely follow my chosen religion.

I confess I don't see many happiness problems, even though I play on the highest difficulties. Thanks to these methods I have not seen a single revolt in any of my games.

Hmm. Im pretty sure I dont have any tax-exempt provinces...maybe it's a bug? I can check when I get home from work.
I've got a Metsuke in each of my 'problem provinces', and still end up with this issue. One of them, I think Buzen, is 100% Christian, and I'm a Shinto/Buddhist clan. I have a fully upgraded temple complex AND a monk, and the religion hasn't changed at all. What gives? Is it because of the Nanban trade port? I'd happily destroy it, as I dont need/use it, but I'd be afraid I couldn't build another one later if I needed to.

My Daimyo is full on the honorable bar, and actually gives a happiness increase when he visits a province. And yes, i usually keep a garrison in an unhappy, newly-conquered province. But Buzen especially has been giving me constant headaches. I'd let the curs keep it except that I need the port and farms there.

And this is just on Hard.

[frogbeastegg]

I've got a Metsuke in each of my 'problem provinces', and still end up with this issue.

Try sending a ninja in to take a look around. Ninja and metsuke are strong against different agent types, and so what's overlooked by one might be noticed by another. Assuming that there is something to find, of course.

One of them, I think Buzen, is 100% Christian, and I'm a Shinto/Buddhist clan. I have a fully upgraded temple complex AND a monk, and the religion hasn't changed at all. What gives? Is it because of the Nanban trade port? I'd happily destroy it, as I dont need/use it, but I'd be afraid I couldn't build another one later if I needed to.

That kind of religious difference is very bad! It's almost certainly the cause of most of your problems. Put your mouse cursor over the up/down arrow icons next to the religious summary on the province information screen. That will break down exactly what is affecting each religion. Act to remove anything which gives a positive factor to Christianity.

The Nanban port spreads Christianity; if its spread % is higher than that of your temple, it will prevent the temple from converting the population. Even if it gives a lower percentage than your temples, it will hamper your efforts. Burn that port down and you should start to see a difference. It is possible to keep one and have your population remain happily Buddhist; since you are already having difficulties it would be best to try that out another time, when you have had more practice at keeping the peasants happy. If you destroy the Nanban port you will be able to make a new one later, provided you have had the event which offers the chance to trade with the foreigners. All of the clans get that at different points in the campaign; it moves from the west side of the map to the east, so clans on the west side get it earlier.

Monks work best in groups of 2-3 unless they are level 5 or 6. Low level monks don't have a very high conversion ability, so stacking the bonuses provided by multiple monks is the best way to get a big jump in the percentage. Especially when combined with Buddhist buildings.

Check the neighbouring provinces for Christian buildings. Some of them spread the religion to all provinces which share a border. It could be that your enemy has one of these buildings, and is still converting your populace without actively doing anything. If you find one of these buildings get a ninja to sabotage it. That will temporarily remove the bonus. Repeatedly sabotage it until you can safely capture the province which contains it.

Check for enemy missionaries in your province. They do not need to be on a mission to convert the population, their mere presence is enough.

[NightwindKing]

Will do! Thanks for th info. Didn't know you could see affectations by mousing-over the up/down religion arrows. Cool!

Forgot about that for neighboring provinces. Hmm...that might be affecting it too...

On a separate question...how on earth do I level-up my agents? So far what I've found is that Metsuke are easy to level up, Monks take forever due to a lack of easily-convertible enemies, and Ninja are just impossible: I've managed to get ONE ninja to level two out of the 8 or so I've had so far...mostly they attempt an assassination or sabotage at 50%, fail and escape, and dont seem to gain xp.
I have not yet seen any missions with OVER a 50% chance of success for my level 1 or two ninjas.
My level 2 guy tried a 48% chance assassination and was caught and executed on the first try. He was the first ninja I've had caught while attempting a mission AND killed.
What am i doing wrong? Is there some easy mission I can use to build-up my agents' skills?

[RedKnight]

Good tips, fbe. It takes a while to figure out all the factors affecting population happiness Nightwindking, and occasionally the displays are hard to read even for a veteran, but there is a lot of info there. If you didn't know about the spread of religion, now you know to keep a much better eye on it. Christianity is a really volatile thing in this game, and mastering it (whether playing Buddhist or Christian) is a lot of fun.

I'm sure there are many guides to agents to be found if you search. Some tips are:

1. Monks and Priests are fairly easily level-able by siccing them on armies (demoralize). The smaller the stack, the easier to demoralize and less chance of failure (which often equals death for a beginner priest).
2. Likewise, ninja sabotaging armies is an easy choice. Again, smaller armies are better (cheaper and more chance of success). Sabotaging buildings is also a choice; the lower the level of the building (less improved), the less the cost and higher the chance of success. Just click on all the choices you have in range and choose the easiest and/or cheapest, when training your ninja.
3. I find metsuke the hardest to train because they mainly need to confront other agents... and unlike armies and buildings, enemy agents can be hard to predict. Often enough, but hardly always, AIs generate them at their capitols.

For the record, your agents get 15 points for a successful action and 3 for a failed one. Also, 1 point/turn for a "maintenance" action (like a metsuke being embedded in a town to increase its taxes).

Also for the record, I don't believe the percentages shown in game are always right, particularly at the lower ends (below 50% chance). Above 80%, they seem to be on target. Also doing something like trying to assassinate a daimyo seems to be really overstated; you probably only have a third of the chance shown.

Something that may not be obvious is that any failed action against an AI also incurs a diplomacy hit, which you can see if you mouse over the other AI in the diplomacy screen to see the reasons for your current score against them. If you want to worry about this, you can choose to harrass rebels and/or only war enemies... but the point where AIs decide to war with you seems to be complex, so I'm not yet sure how much it matters. For one thing, they seem to declare war first if someone is adjacent to them, and only secondly based on warscore if they have no one to declare war on, next to them.

Sometimes early in the game I will have a ton of young monks and ninjas around one hapless one-unit stack, which can't move and is incredibly demoralized. Poor bastards, ha ha.

[frogbeastegg]

Also for the record, I don't believe the percentages shown in game are always right, particularly at the lower ends (below 50% chance). Above 80%, they seem to be on target. Also doing something like trying to assassinate a daimyo seems to be really overstated; you probably only have a third of the chance shown.

:twitches: The success chances were one of my biggest banes when researching the guide. :twitches: I'm permanently scarred. :twitches: This nervous tick won't go away, every time someone mentions success chances :twitches: it starts. What should have taken ten hours took tens of hours because fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail - er, sorry. As I said, scars. :twitches:

I found that there are a pair of notable, repeatable exceptions to the '80% or higher equals mostly successful' rule: missionaries causing rebellion and metsuke bribing. The missionaries' rebellion mission in particular seems to work out as 80+% reported success equals 0.5/10 succeed, 1.5/10 to be executed, and 8/10 to fail. Must have taken me in the region of 11 hours alone to get sufficient successes out of them to report back on the effects of that single mission, and I still loathe the mere mention of the agent type some 3 months later as a result! Metsuke's bribery at 80+% is more like 2/10 succeed, 7.5/10 to fail, 0.5/10 to be executed. For those two missions it does not matter what level the agent is, what skills you give them, or what target you send them after. 80% success = FAIL!1! became my frustrated mantra :twitches:

With other all missions (and agents), I found the reported chances were quite accurate. On a very rough level, 80% means 2 out of every 10 attempts will fail and the rest succeed. This is why the language in my agents section is passively biased towards ninja (e.g using their mission names as examples in the text). They work as advertised and I love them for it.

The most baffling thing is that there are people out there who do not experience the 80% = FAIL effect with causing rebellion and bribing, and instead have it succeed reliably time after time. I copied their methods, their skill setups, their difficulty levels, and I couldn't replicate it.

With the lower percentages, like 15%, now the lower difficulties I think there might be an added element of luck added on top of the displayed calculation. It's as if the AI rolls a second dice to see if it can override the result in your favour. On the highest difficulties I very rarely succeeded with any agent on a low success chance, whereas on normal and easy success with a low chance happened more often. This supports a luck theory, as the game applies more slight of hand to make you successful on the lowest difficulties. Of course, 15% is still sufficiently meaningful percentage that success should happen naturally now and then, even on very hard.

[RedKnight]

:twitches: The success chances were one of my biggest banes when researching the guide. :twitches: I'm permanently scarred. :twitches: This nervous tick won't go away, every time someone mentions success chances :twitches: it starts. What should have taken ten hours took tens of hours because fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail - er, sorry. As I said, scars. :twitches:

I think the game holds on to the random number; I've worked out a way to work around it if you think it's too ... conservative. Reloading the game does not work.

[frogbeastegg]

I think the game holds on to the random number; I've worked out a way to work around it if you think it's too ... conservative. Reloading the game does not work.

Reloading does work; I've seen it happen many times during my testing. Sometimes you get a different result on your first reload, others it takes many goes. So many attempts that you might be convinced it won't work. You don't need to give any other orders, move armies about etc to get the game to spit out a different result; I found it didn't make any appreciable difference. The process I used was quick save, send agent on mission, quick load, send agent on mission, repeat until success or 10 failures, in which case advance to the next agent/turn.

Reloading also changes failure/critical failure. When testing via reloads, sometimes agents would be executed where they'd repeatedly failed and escaped in the previous reloads.

I wouldn't recommend reloading for normal play, though. It's cheesy, and tedious. Those determined to reload should note that if you don't get a different result within the first 5 reloads you will probably be there a very long time before the game spits out a success. I wondered about including this information in the guide, and decided against.

I also did agent tests without reloading at all. It didn't help with the 80%=FAIL thing.