Problem is that with the Iberian assault spam you also get some of the best cavalry in the game :/ . At 36k, I had to compromise on any 1 or i get an ineffective army.
Problem is that with the Iberian assault spam you also get some of the best cavalry in the game :/ . At 36k, I had to compromise on any 1 or i get an ineffective army.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
[21:16:17] [Gaius - 5.115.253.115]
i m not camping , its elegant strategy of waiting
In edu 3.0 best archers should be boshporans, after them syrians romans cretans and dacian elite archers, no reason for owerpowering other kind of archers, i noticed also that komatai toxotai have biger range to atack my sagitary when i played with gg2, now with lowing nietos price i see that samnitici milities cost almost same as nietos even nietos are better unit, and other thing, now with new edu and with 36000 mnai spqr in imperial era its almost impossible to bring solid army with some heavy cav in that i mean also merc heavy.... must to say that polybians look exelent like they have to be...
P.S i know that this is just alpha edu and that we are just testing now but i had to post this
Last edited by Vega; 08-21-2011 at 06:16. Reason: dont know
Yeah, one of the big issues is army effectiveness at price points. If your army requires fielding a heavy cavalry arm, then you're going to be extremely good at 40K but you'll have to bring levys at 36K so you can actually bring a heavy cavalry arm. But because you have a proliferation of fearful units, it becomes very difficult to actually bring levys since Eagles don't counter act scariness that well and not everyone has access to eagles.
Now because infantry has been buffed extensively, you really need to invest in a heavy cavalry wing to have an effective heavy cavalry wing (ie, you can't bring 2 with only missiles and be fine, you need light infantry escorts and a ton of other things which are countered by the opponent just getting more heavy infantry).
We were able to get it working at 36K because Prodromoi, Celtic Hoplites, Pandas(I used to use them at size 240 AP axes because they were so good in melee), and Thracians were so cost effective and Rome/KH/Gauls/Asian factions were the most played. This wasn't perfect because Carthage/Germania/Luso/Getai weren't very well balanced at 36K with Carthage not being all that effective and the other factions being very good against certain factions and terrible against others.
Last edited by antisocialmunky; 08-21-2011 at 04:12.
Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.
"Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009
Sorry I can't join the testing, my mini project too is currently on hold because of RL issues, but I gave a look to the EDU and I have few thoughts, and questions to GG:
1) I saw you ignored my bug reporting in the 2.1 thread, so I'll repost it here: Mada Asabara are bugged, they have 160 delay instead of 0, it's a vanilla-EB typo never fixed.
2) It's ok I cannot convince you about my view on legionarian fighting, but the new spacing value make no sense, IMHO.
We have 2 ancient sources writing on the matter, AFAIK: Polybius and Vegetius.
The first claim legionarii fought as individuals and needed much space to swing their swords: 6 feet (roughly 1.8 mt.), wider than the current formation.
The second, who wrote in the 4 AD IIRC but used ancient sources, says they fought in a much tighter formation: 3 feet (roughly 0.9 mt.), exactly half the polybian value and shorter than the current spacing.
So, why didn't you follow Polybius or Vegetius, but decided for a third, middle value? Is there something I'm missing?
3) Why didn't you use the soldier radius (hidden value after mass) tweak to make hoplites fight more cohesively? Is it just a rumor, proved ineffective in tests?
Thanks and congrats for the release
EDIT: Here's an excellent sum of the individual spacing debate from Adrian Goldsworthy's The Roman army at war
To answer questions:
Aper, I did not ignore you. That was eliminated first thing when I started doing the Eastern units.
Levy archers are definitely getting an accuracy boost, but don't expect high kill rates at a distance of 180 meters, please! This will especially be true of horse archers, expect to need to close in order to achieve good kill rates with your limited 45 arrows.
You guys can now expect the Sweboz in addition to toe other factions in the next update. Expect them to be significantly better than in 2.1.1; for example, the Woithiz Watha will now have warcry, and Dugunthiz will come with 90 men and 20 defense, as well as a javelin attack of 10, high accuracy, and 3 ammo, with 5 shield to boot!
Here is how I imagine archers functioning:
-Levy Archers: Very cheap. Innacuracy means their main utility is aiming at large groups of enemies, not engaging in archery duels.
-Medium Accuracy Archers: Good for targeting units or blobs, and better at archery duels.
-High Accuracy Archers: Superb for targeting and weakening units, excellent accuracy. Should always win archery duels.
The Getai are one of the most versatile factions in the game, this being one of their shortcomings - they are jacks of all trades, masters of none except perhaps skirmishing. I will check them (the Costobocii) out later, for sure.Also , can u make Costobocii Axemen usefull plz? geati don't have any AP now with the Falx changes.
Europa Barbarorum: Novus Ordo Mundi - Mod Leader Europa Barbarorum - Team Member
"To robbery, slaughter, plunder, they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace." -CalgacusOriginally Posted by skullheadhq
Yeah, Greeks, Asians, and Steppe along with Sweboz have not been completed yet.
On a side note, Saba should get an archer unit which is not levy quality. Perhaps make Ethiopians in the same vein as Numidians? After all, Ethiopia was famous for high quality archer units. Arabs were as well, so maybe the Archer-Spears should be more in the middle tier and leave levy job for Sabean Archers?
Last edited by Brave Brave Sir Robin; 08-24-2011 at 04:03.
From Frontline for fixing siege towers of death
x30 From mikepettytw for showing how to edit in game text.
From Brennus for wit.
Arabs weren't famed archers in Hellenstic-era sources I can recall (except mounted on camels), but the bow certainly was one of the main weapons wielded by the Sabaean nobility (not the javelin as far as I can recall), along with spears and fine, slender swords. Sadly I can't create a noble archer unit.
Now, Nubia was famed for its archers as far back as Ancient Egypt. Again the existing archer unit is an Ethiopian one, but if you want me to stat it as an axe armed, good quality Nubian archer rather than a club armed Ethiopian one, I could do that.
Europa Barbarorum: Novus Ordo Mundi - Mod Leader Europa Barbarorum - Team Member
"To robbery, slaughter, plunder, they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace." -CalgacusOriginally Posted by skullheadhq
Yea that woould be good. Previously, a big advantage Saba had was the ability to spam alot of archers. That is useless now and you are basically forced to use eles which the opponent can expect and bring a simple 810 levy unit to counter them.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
[21:16:17] [Gaius - 5.115.253.115]
i m not camping , its elegant strategy of waiting
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