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Thread: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

  1. #61
    Handler of candles Member Xehh II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    I too would like to say I found this guide very helpful, in fact I read the guide before I bought the game and was one of the main influences for me to buy it.
    A ha ha! Rainbows and unicorns! Rainbows and unicorns!

  2. #62

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    I hope you enjoy the game.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  3. #63
    Handler of candles Member Xehh II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    I enjoy it greatly, in my opinion the best TW game since the original STW and MTW, the only downside is that I have no way to purchase the DLCs online, so I hope they come out with a gold edition disc or something.
    A ha ha! Rainbows and unicorns! Rainbows and unicorns!

  4. #64

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Your guide is terrific, Frogbeastegg. But any chance of seeing a new guide for the ROTS campaign?

  5. #65

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    A RotS guide would be a large project; the economy is different, the agents are different, the units are different, there's the family influence mechanic, the building chains are different - there are so many changes that it would essentially require writing another, slightly smaller version of the existing guide. It took me a couple of hundred hours to research and write this over the course of several months. I can't do that again.

    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  6. #66

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    A RotS guide would be a large project; the economy is different, the agents are different, the units are different, there's the family influence mechanic, the building chains are different - there are so many changes that it would essentially require writing another, slightly smaller version of the existing guide. It took me a couple of hundred hours to research and write this over the course of several months. I can't do that again.

    Alas! This guide is so magnificent... I was hoping for more, but I understand. Thanks!

  7. #67

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post

    For many new players, the realm divide is a scary big event lurking off in the future. They have heard enough to worry about it, and not enough to feel confident they know how to cope.
    This is my first campaign (actually I started as The Shimazu on easy, but only a few rounds, as it was a tad boring). I had never heard of the big realm divide, and I was terrified that there was some splitting of my kingdom or something, rebels breaking off to form a new clan! I was so glad when I saw it was not that. However, I was not really prepared, except from a normal solid build I also used in other Total war games. After a few turns I got curious on all the new things that was happening, clans that declared war etc, so I googled and found this site. I registered only cause I really had to say: Wow what a great guide! I've seen horrible wiki/help/encyclopedias before, but in this game it was pretty decent. However, this guide is extremly good compared to most I've seen before. Allthough I've not read more than about 20% yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    Aside from doing what you can to safeguard your income, you should work to stockpile a reserve. The more koku you have in the bank the better. If you do end up losing money each turn in the earlier phases, savings will give you chance to recover. 50,000 koku is a good beginning, 100,000 is better.
    Economy yes, that was the big problem for me. I came in with about 5000 koku, and my income went to minus 5000 per turn quickly. At first I did some loot takeovers, as I was allready on the march when this event happened, to get to 30k to take the initial cost. I sent a naval expedition to Izu, that I've been drooling on for some time, cause of the income there. It also served good as a magnet stronghold to keep the enemy bashing towards my walls, and keeping their troops away from my main lands, along with the new vassal on my top-mid flank. Lucky for me, I had picked Mori, and allready had all the trading spots out in the sea, with good naval cover, and was just clearing out the last pockets of clans in the west regions when this grand event happened. I love such events, and its a bit like the crusade event in Medieval II Total War: Kingdoms. Since just about everyone now became my enemy (except the eastern biggest clan, phuuu) I just aswell swapped to Christianity also (note to self: read up on religion in this guide)

    Progress so far, a few years out in the big realm divide event

    click to see large picture

    Thank you again for this great guide. I'm still living (and thriving) and now also got some extra tools in form of information in how to proceed. Do you recommend Oda as the hardest race to start? I might pick them next I think.

    Love the game, just started to play again after some long months break (due to lots of reasons). It sure takes it time to end 1 single campaign, but thats part of the fun, never ending story almost :)
    Last edited by Tixan; 11-04-2011 at 18:16.

  8. #68
    Member Member Syl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    I'm another new registeree here to say thank you

    The detail and research you put into your writing really shows and is very inspiring to me. Thank you for taking the time to compile this and share what you've learned with everyone. What patience you must have!

    For every one post in response there are many many people who were helped by your topic on top of that. I just wanted to leave a note that it's still being picked up by new readers and appreciated!


  9. #69

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Thank you both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syl View Post
    The detail and research you put into your writing really shows and is very inspiring to me. Thank you for taking the time to compile this and share what you've learned with everyone. What patience you must have!
    It started from a series of Shogun II conversations I had with a good friend. We were both exchanging experiences and advice. Sadly, he died about a week after he got the game. That was the man known on this site as TosaInu; the guide is dedicated to him. Writing it seemed ... appropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tixan View Post
    Do you recommend Oda as the hardest race to start? I might pick them next I think.
    That's quite an empire you've built in that screenshot! If you have not yet started to build Nanban trade ships, give them a try. They are amazingly strong when used by a player in naval battles. I repeatedly sank entire large enemy fleets with a single Nanban! The Mori version is even better than the regular one.

    Oda have changed a little since my original difficulty rating. The Ikko-Ikki DLC changes have made that faction into a much more dangerous force and they start quite close to Oda's homelands. On the other hand, players have now found strategies which make starting out as Oda a lot easier. In the early days of the game player after player reported struggling as the Oda. With both of these things in mind, I would now say that the Oda's difficulty depends on the player. If you are brand new to the game they will be very difficult. If you don't know how to counter the I-I's religion, they will be very difficult. If you know how to use their strong ashigaru to your advantage and know how to do a good rush-expansion at the beginning, then they are a lot easier. It's all about the opening turns. While that's true for all of the clans, it's particularly true for the Oda. If you can win a strong, secure position then the rest of the campaign is quite easy thanks to your location and faction bonuses. If you don't get a good position it's usually game over; it's much harder to keep on going with a poor position compared to most other clans.

    In the current state of the game, the Uesugi have become very difficult and the Takeda have become a little more difficult. The other clans remain about the same as when I originally rated them. The Tokugawa are another clan whose difficulty relies on the player in my opinion. If you know how to use your vassal relationship with the Imagawa well they are quite a bit easier than compared to if you do not.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  10. #70

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    It started from a series of Shogun II conversations I had with a good friend. We were both exchanging experiences and advice. Sadly, he died about a week after he got the game. That was the man known on this site as TosaInu; the guide is dedicated to him. Writing it seemed ... appropriate.
    Im sorry for your loss. It was a nice gesture of you to write it, and dedicate it to your friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    That's quite an empire you've built in that screenshot! If you have not yet started to build Nanban trade ships, give them a try. They are amazingly strong when used by a player in naval battles. I repeatedly sank entire large enemy fleets with a single Nanban! The Mori version is even better than the regular one.
    This is something I started with right after my post, they are pretty awesome, and a pair of 2 kills everything! I also capured the European ship, that I cant recall the name of atm. Sadly I've should have done all of this before the RD (realm divide), as I had so much out in the sea to monitor, guard and so. Had extremly much ships, and I belive I could have scraped em all for just a few nanban trade ships that guarded key places. Was very hard to do that post RD, I might continue that struggle later, as I got more and more eager to test out Oda or Takeda. I landed on Takeda, I've always loved those cavalry units in all these Total war games (except for the horse archers, that I despise to have, and that are so annoying to face also!). I picked the long campaign, hard on battles, and I think I did hard on campaign too, but I cant find anywhere the difficulty listed for the campaign, is there a place?

    Best of all, I did read just about all the parts of your guide now, and not triggering the RD before I was ready is really gold, literally too. After reading up on your guide, I got many "aha" "ofcourse" "I knew that" "ooh??", and it saved me alot of time of fooling around, as I now know I did before :)
    Just about ready to enter RD now, this time as Takeda, crossing fingers!
    Last edited by Tixan; 11-12-2011 at 18:52.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tixan View Post
    I picked the long campaign, hard on battles, and I think I did hard on campaign too, but I cant find anywhere the difficulty listed for the campaign, is there a place?
    There's only a single difficulty slider on the campaign setup screen. It applies to both battles and the campaign map, so if you picked hard there then both halves of the game will be on hard mode. You can adjust battle difficulty within the campaign if you like (press escape -> options -> game options if I remember correctly), but not campaign difficulty itself. That's locked to whatever you picked at the start.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  12. #72

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Dear Frogbeastegg,

    I am new to the Total War series I had joined a rival forum and was linked by another member to your spectacular guide, I just wanted to add my thanks for taking the time to post this.
    Last edited by Grace; 12-08-2011 at 00:59.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Thank you.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  14. #74
    Naginata Newbie Member Jaabberwocky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Dear frogbeastegg, thank you very much for this guide! This guide is well-written (almost to professional standards I daresay) and very easy to read, teaching me a few things I didn't really know even though I've played TW games since Rome. I've also pointed a few of my friends to your guide as a starter guide of some sorts for them to truly enjoy their TW experience (and to become addicted like me! ) Thanks!
    兵者,詭道也。故能而示之不能,用而示之不用,近而示之遠,遠而示之近,

    All warfare is based on deceit - Sun Tzu

  15. #75

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Indoctrinating your friends into the cult of Shogun II - I like it!
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  16. #76

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Simply incredible guide, thanks so much for all the hard work you've put into this.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Thank you
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  18. #78

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Just had to register to say thank you for this awesome guide! It explains in detail every little thing I wanted to know :-)

  19. #79

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    I'm pleased you found it helpful
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  20. #80
    Member Member Tsunobushi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    I don't think I've posted on this forum since the week the original Shogun came out. Just had to say that your guide is truly a masterpiece. Despite having amassed a truly sick amount of time playing this game, I learned a lot reading through it. Thank you for your time and effort, it was not wasted.

  21. #81

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Thank you, and Happy New Year!
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  22. #82

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    This is truely an awe-inspiring guide! Thank you for all the work you put into it Frogbeastegg! Has cleared up a number of questions I had about the game! (Such as why use Naginata when they weren't specialised against anything) Registered just to say thanks! (and to follow your other thread about Santa Samurai, 'tis another awesome thread!)

  23. #83

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Thank you

    Naginata were a surprise for me. I expected them to be similar to the naginata in the original Shogun: Total War. In that game they were extremely heavily armoured, slow, quick to tire, and not very good at killing anything. When I finally gave them a chance I was shocked to see how solidly reliable they were in every situation. They quickly become a firm favourite.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  24. #84

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    I would just like to say thank you for this guide. I also just registered just to say thanks. I have been a long time total war player (mostly just single player and downloaded a mod here and there) , but have yet to post on a thread or get involved. had no idea that the Total War community was this large! I am still trying to figure out how to do things in this game (I just started), but that is one of the more enjoyable aspects anyway. Thanks again!

  25. #85

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    With a name like that you must be a Three Kingdoms fan. Excellent book.

    The Total War series is very popular now; the fan base has been growing steadily since the first game back in 2000. There's 4 main forums: here, .com, steam's dedicated forum, and TWC. There's also discussion scattered on other gaming sites. Don't be afraid to jump in here if you see a topic you find interesting or if you want to start your own, we're a friendly lot and don't bite.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  26. #86

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Hi and thanks for taking the time to write this awesome guide. I've learned so much from it and made me fall in love with this game so much more that I'm going back to play the other games in the TW series. You're a real inspiration to the community and kudos to you and may the sun shine on you every day :)

    I have 2 queries I would like to clarify, if you may.

    1) I have been playing legendary difficulty for a while now and I find I always die somewhere 50 turns into the game. I am always able to survive the initial aggression and take 4-5 provinces but that's when 3-4 (sometimes 5 or 6) clans suddenly declare war on me for no reason, usually within 1 or 2 turns even though its far from realm divide. I have been trading with them for a while and I always make sure my diplomacy is indifferent or better. Can I know if you suffer a diplomatic penalty in legendary cause I don't seem to have the same problem in hard or vh. Will paying tributes to the different clans help at the expense of developing my provinces?

    2) I have a friend who thinks that the battle difficulty on legendary (A.I. unit bonuses) is the same as that on normal (no bonuses), but I feel that it is actually the same as very hard (A.I has significant bonuses in legendary). Can you clarify this too please.

    Thanks once again for your hard work.

  27. #87

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Thanks

    Depending on what you like about Shogun II, you may not get on well with the older games. Design-wise most of the older games are less focused in that they have a larger map, lots more units, lots more buildings, and so on. Depending on your tastes that's either a good thing or a bad one. Some of the games sprawl more than others. The AI isn't that good in the older games, and there are lots of interface tweaks in Shogun II which make life far more pleasant. If you do try an older title try and pick one which ties in to your interests.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristil66 View Post
    1) I have been playing legendary difficulty for a while now and I find I always die somewhere 50 turns into the game. I am always able to survive the initial aggression and take 4-5 provinces but that's when 3-4 (sometimes 5 or 6) clans suddenly declare war on me for no reason, usually within 1 or 2 turns even though its far from realm divide. I have been trading with them for a while and I always make sure my diplomacy is indifferent or better. Can I know if you suffer a diplomatic penalty in legendary cause I don't seem to have the same problem in hard or vh. Will paying tributes to the different clans help at the expense of developing my provinces?
    According to some old developer posts from when the game was new, legendary does not feature any changes like that. The AI is the same as very hard. I find that 'peace' varies from game to game and clan to clan. Sometimes it's easy for me to keep things quiet and only fight when I want to, others I experience many unwanted wars. On very hard the campaign AI is playing to win: all of the major clans and all of the aggressive clans want to expand, become shogun, and remove rivals. Get in the way of that and it will come after you. Central Japan in particular is filled with clans which want to win so it's that much harder to live a quiet life.

    Giving gifts does usually help. 5,000 koku will give a hefty chunk of positive relationship points and will often bump a relationship from indifferent to very friendly. If you can't afford that much you can send less but the effect won't be nearly as dramatic. Certain AI clans will still attack even if they are rated as very friendly - it's that playing to win part again. If you are blocking their expansion or otherwise pose a problem which they need to deal with, they will come after you no matter how much they like you. This applies mainly to clans with ratings like aggressive and dishonourable. Pacifistic, defensive clans are still quite reliable. If you don't want to fight a clan keep it at a minimum of friendly, preferably very friendly, and don't do anything which would tempt them to attack. Good relations are still worthwhile with the more aggressive clans provided you can spare the koku and keep an eye on your border, since the clan is more likely to attack alternative targets unless you are considered the 'easiest' one. Marriage is a good tool if you have the necessary children. Try and keep an alliance with a single strong, reliable clan in order to take some pressure off yourself.

    Keep an eye on AI alliances as well. If there's a network of alliances multiple clans can be pulled into a war with a single declaration. Pay clans to break their alliances whenever you suspect you might end up fighting one of the alliance members. If you do end up at war consider paying another clan to join the war on your side.

    You need to be careful to strike a balance between spending money on diplomacy and on province development however, else you will cripple yourself in the long term. If you can grab a gold mine or some trade nodes early on it will make your life a lot easier. Remember markets for an early cash infusion. Whilst generally you do not want to upgrade your markets, it is beneficial to upgrade a select few, particularly if you can one day reach the kabunakama. If you need extra cash to survive the early turns then it's better to build a few rice exchanges at the expensive of slightly less money in the later stages. If you want to be purist about using rice to boost your economy in the later stages of the game you can always knock the upgraded markets down and replace them with level 1s once you have a larger empire.

    Sometimes the only thing you can do is sit in your castles and let the AI throw army after army at your walls. Provided you don't lose a siege you can build up ready for a counter attack when the AI leaves itself open. Grab a vulnerable province which you can hold, and then sit there defending until the next opportunity opens up. It takes a long time but it's better than going down in flames due to over-exposing yourself. The stronger you grow and the weaker the AI clans become, the more chance you have of securing peace with some of the multitude which declared war on you.

    Legendary is tough. I haven't won a campaign on it yet. I had one midway through when RotS came out and it got abandoned in favour of the new shiny, and had another going well when I decided I was tired of Shogun and needed a break. I'm determined to do it one day.

    2) I have a friend who thinks that the battle difficulty on legendary (A.I. unit bonuses) is the same as that on normal (no bonuses), but I feel that it is actually the same as very hard (A.I has significant bonuses in legendary). Can you clarify this too please.
    As far as I am aware it's the same as very hard.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  28. #88

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    amazing guide! thanks

  29. #89

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Brilliant guide thanks for making it

    Dread to think how many hours of research that took you

    One thing i have found on the economic side, once your empire starts getting large and you start losing money due to corruption upgradeing you castles can help

  30. #90

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Razorwind View Post
    One thing i have found on the economic side, once your empire starts getting large and you start losing money due to corruption upgradeing you castles can help
    Yes, that's helpful in the later phases. It can also help to counter the unrest issues resulting from rapid conquest during the closing turns of the game. When I'm in the final phase of my campaigns I'm less bothered about optimum efficiency, and more concerned about keeping everywhere safe and quiet whilst I grab the the last few provinces to trigger victory.

    Someone would need to run the numbers to check which open provides the most money between reduced corruption or higher rice surplus. When the game was new the results tended to favour rice once you were larger than 15 (IIRC) provinces. The question is a little academic though, since the AI will upgrade its castles and there's other factors to consider beyond pure income. In my opinion that's part of what keeps the game interesting: there's seldom one perfect answer to a situation. Once they have an understanding of the game's basics players should definitely do whatever they feel provides the best result.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


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