EB II Mechanic and M2TW AI (and other stuff)

[LusitanianWolf]

I was unsure if I should creat a new thread, post it in the FAQ's one or necro the Stele, sorry if I did it wrong.

In EB2 we are planning on using the Pezhetairoi as the backbone infantry for the Seleukids & Ptolemaioi, representing them as the “pikemen on field duty”. The Klerouchikoi Phalangitai will still be around and probably almost identical in stats, just slightly worse. The Klerouchikoi Phalangitai will be used to represent reserve pikemen, who unless in time of emergency are back home on their farms tilling their lands. In game terms this means that they will cost about as much as Pezhetairoi to recruit and will be free upkeep as long as they are in cities. This again to represent that they are tilling their land allotments, but should an enemy approach they will quickly arm themselves. But, wouldn’t the Seleukid & Ptolemaic players have an advantage then as they can have pretty decent line infantry garrisoned for free in almost any city? Yes, if it hadn’t been for the drawback the Klerouchikoi Phalangitai has. If the soldiers aren’t tilling their lands, they aren’t producing anything for the authorities to tax. This means the Klerouchikoi Phalangitai will have a much higher upkeep than a unit like this should have, which means if you use them in battles outside your settlements they will put a drain on your treasury. This is to represent that taxable produce isn't made and also because soldiers called into duty would receive a salary. But this unit is meant to be good garrison troops and also to join your armies in times of emergencies, like if the enemy invades and you quickly need to scramble an army or if you see your neighbour has left a settlement virtually unguarded and just need a few units quickly to bolster your numbers.

How will AI react to that? Does it know what are the free upkeep troops and use them as guarrisons or spam and wander around with them (with terrible efect on the economy and thus needing more money script)? More than one people asked this on the stele thread but I see no answer by the team.

How many free upkeep troops would be able to harbour, lets say, a town like Pergamum, Sinope or Oxtraca at the begining of the campain? One of the things I like less in Eb is being forced to either disband or blitz in the first turns and not being able to turtle in starting province and still being able to sustein some military power.

I readed in TWC (I'm a lurker there) that the team is having problems putting the Phalanx formation to work as it should. But afaik you have been working in that since a long time ago, I know that this things take time and that you have lack of animators but wouldnt that be a crippling blow to EBII if not soluted?

And since Phalanx formation isnt in vanilla M2TW how does the AI react to phalangites? Does it charges them head on, use it as flanking troops or its possible to give a idea to it about how to use it?

And how will it use chariots?

And will normal chariots still being cavalry murders as in EB? That doesnt seem to make much sense to me, (but makes them super usefull ) unless they have Scytes on them. Or was it one of their historical uses?


Btw, in the All the Previews In One Thread... the link that says Stele #7: Making the Models leads to the same topic as Announcement and Video, about the Gaza campain, I gess isnt supposed to be so, am I wrong?

[Gustave]

I readed in TWC (I'm a lurker there) that the team is having problems putting the Phalanx formation to work as it should. But afaik you have been working in that since a long time ago, I know that this things take time and that you have lack of animators but wouldnt that be a crippling blow to EBII if not soluted?

We may need to remove their secondary weapon, otherwise they quickly drop their sarrisa and use only their swords... still it doesnt mean that they are not "working" at all, they make an efficient pikewall, but they will need careful stat editings (for now they are VERY powerful ).

And since Phalanx formation isnt in vanilla M2TW how does the AI react to phalangites? Does it charges them head on, use it as flanking troops or its possible to give a idea to it about how to use it?

We don't have a proper battle AI yet so I can't tell, but I heard that some modders managed to make the AI avoid pikes with its cavalry, so it should avoid the phalanx as well. But with M2TW's AI you should not expect miracles.

And how will it use chariots?

They will be rougly ther same as in EB1 : they can make effective missile platforms but you should avoid melee at all cost.

And will normal chariots still being cavalry murders as in EB? That doesnt seem to make much sense to me, (but makes them super usefull ) unless they have Scytes on them. Or was it one of their historical uses?

I don't think so, now they die quickly when caught in melee, even against cavalry.

[LusitanianWolf]

Does that mean they'll be freaking powerfull from the front but butchered when flanked (keeping formation and ignoring attacks from other sides)? Or they'll wave the sarissas around trying to hit the surrounding enemies? And how will it work while not in formation, kinda like Speutagardaz in EB?

[Gustave]

Or they'll wave the sarissas around trying to hit the surrounding enemies?

Yes that's what happens. I wish we could import RTW's phalanx formation.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

What about the guard button?

[Gustave]

What about the guard button?

it helps to keep the unit's cohesion, but it doesnt change anything to the main problem : as soon as a phalangite comes close to an enemy he switches to sword. As far as I know its a M2TW's bug and theres nothing we can do. Of course if someone knows a way to get rid of it please tell us.