Three Wolf Moon [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

vote: AskThePizzaGuy for being much too quiet. He must be scheming devious things.

vote: Seamus Fermanagh for hosting a game I'm very much looking forward to (not that this one isn't great, Zack!)

Vote: B_Ray for voting for me on such awful reasoning, not voting Romanus the shirt.

I'm quiet because as interesting as being a vanilla townie in a game with detectives and not being scanned or murdered like I asked is lame, I have other games which require actual thought which I'm playing in on other sites, take up more of my time.

[Johhog]

VOTE: Populus Romanus
VOTE: Askthepizzaguy
Let me get rid of your pain.

Btw, whatcha gonna ask him? The Pizza Guy?

[Askthepizzaguy]

HEY I HAS AN IDEA

WHY NOT SCAN ME LIKE I ASKED TWICE ALREADY

DERPA DERPA DERPA DOOOOOO

Good god people, you can't read me at all, ever.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Do I has to post proof that you can't read me for ? Do I have to bring out the record books and SHOW YOU how awful you are at reading me? Do I? Do I???

I'll do it.

I'll bleepin do it.

[Visor]

You're not the only one. But they've never got me correctly as scum. :P (Cause I've only been it once. :P:)

[Askthepizzaguy]

You're not the only one. But they've never got me correctly as scum. :P (Cause I've only been it once. :P:)

I've been scum in like 25-30 games now on 3 different fora. I have roughly 125-140 games under my belt.

I've been guessed as mafia exactly once, provided it wasn't done via detective result and I was mafia and had mafia allies (No SK included in this example).

And that was my first game as scum, second game ever.

Wanna see? I have the record, I can post it for you.

[Visor]

I'd like to see the game actually.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So here it is.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

• My first game as scum, The Prometheus, I was a round 4 lynch because I was acting scummy. That said, it was my second overall game ever. You couldn't really pattern my behavior yet accurately, I feel that was a lucky guess/lynch someone for different playstyle. But I'll count it. (Lynched)

• second game, won, lynched on detective result only, partner survived. I bussed him hard but he didn't die. (Lynched)

• third game, won, didn't get lynched. (Not lynched)

• fourth game, started as neutral, deduced who the scum was by behavior alone, blackmailed him into recruiting me, won as mafia. (Not lynched)

• Fifth game, lost because godfather got lynched, which causes auto-loss for the team. My godfather only got lynched because the game host changed the rules and just made stuff up halfway through the game, directly impacting my godfather in an unfair way. I wasn't lynched, and she wasn't going to get lynched until the game host interfered. Was rather close to victory, too. (Not lynched)

• Sixth game, won and even outed myself and my partner on the last day in a very high risk move. I didn't know who my partner was, but I deduced it from his scummy behavior and then posted it for all to see. We then lynched someone else and won together. (Not lynched)

• Seventh game, won as last man standing in a bloodbath victory, accomplishing all my goals. I was scanned on night zero and found to be scum by the way. I'll include Beefy as my "partner" in this one simply because he helped me win and I could/should have helped him win. (Not lynched)

• Eighth game, me and my partner survived unscathed. (Not lynched)

• Ninth game, my partner died before I was even recruited, due to strange mechanics. I started off neutral. Defeated all other factions besides the cult and allied with the mafia/cult. Made it to the final two, lost on a coin toss but still awarded a win. No lynch here, even when I outed myself as scum. Don't ask, you don't wanna know. (Not lynched)

• Tenth game, me and my partner survived unscathed. (Not lynched)

• Eleventh game, the team I was recruited to won, and I helped them win. Problem was, game host reverted my alignment back to original when I died and didn't inform me. As such, that's a bastard host move and I should have won. I wasn't lynched here either. (Not lynched)

• Twelfth game, nearly flawless but I timed the last lynch improperly by an hour, and the lynch reversed and hit my partner. I survived anyway. (Not lynched)

• Thirteenth game, flawless. (Not lynched)

• Fourteenth game, flawless. (Not lynched)

• Fifteenth game, nearly flawless. (Not lynched)

• Sixteenth game, flawless (Not lynched)

• Seventeenth game, brought team from brink of defeat to total victory after Domination 3000 outed the entire team. (Not lynched)

• There was a game where I was converted to a cult and murdered right afterward, I hardly count that as me being mafia or being lynched either but I was technically scum for a round. (Not lynched) [Council of Villains 2, can't find the link.]

How about games the host abandoned?

• Downgradez by Iskander 3.1 = I was scum, not lynched. (Not lynched)

• Cultured Drizzt Fan (Swords and D20's III) That was with 2 detective results on me Night one!

• Subotan (Bridge Zhou Far) Nearly won the game, but the host abandoned it on the final rounds. (Not lynched)

Totalwar.org = 88 games.
TotalwarCenter = roughly 20 games.
Civilization Fanatics Center = roughly 20 games.

Times lynched as Mafia (meaning, not solo or recruited cult) excluding detective results = ONE TIME, on my first game as scum.

Hasn't happened since.

Know why?

Because people don't even try to read me. They don't even try. They don't bother, they just randomly decide to lynch me or not, and they've been wrong again, and again, and again. And then they need their precious detectives to figure me out, and that is why I hate detectives.

But go ahead!

SCAN ME!

I double triple dog dare you, townies. Because you can't guess my alignment at all without the help of the game host telling you what my alignment is.

Can't judge me worth a gad dang, never have. You clearly need help. So, do it. Use your crutch. Scan Askthepizzaguy.

[Visor]

What about Cpdwane in Buffy IV? Or was that just a hunch? I suppose, you were converted. I suspected you, but I killed SS instead.

Not counting vigs?

[Askthepizzaguy]

What about Cpdwane in Buffy IV? Or was that just a hunch? I suppose, you were converted. I suspected you, but I killed SS instead.

Yeah, cult example though. I was townie most of the game, helped defeat them, and got desperation converted at the end, out of what I can only conclude was spite or grasping at straws. You want to count that one, fine I guess... but that's stretching the definitions a bit. I'll include examples where I was starting cult, but I was mostly townie in that game, just like the council of villains example.

Even if you include it, the reason I was lynched wasn't because I was acting scummy, as my record was 100% townie up until the round I got lynched. It was because there was a cult, and for no other reason.

And even if you include it, that's not a record townies should be proud of. I challenge you guys to finally start to rack up some "Askthepizzaguy is acting scummy" lynches that are actually true and don't rely on the crutch of the game host revealing my card at your whims.

That's not what mafia should be about. Try to read me. Come on, I post more than most other people, I HAVE to be leaving clues somewhere! SOLVE ME!!!

Just TRY, that's all I'm asking. Just bleedin' try, for once....

[Askthepizzaguy]

And if you don't want to try, there's a detective in this game. Do it the wimpy way. Reveal my card. Blind lynch me for no reason, and the streak continues.

I dare you folks to man up and solve me the hard way. But, if you can't do it, just use your crutch and scan me. You blow this chance, and I'll never look at townies the same way again. And my opinion of townies is really at an all-time low, after such games as The Campground and Mafia X where townies wouldn't ever stop calling for my head. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Then we have Netherworld, and you were wrong again.

I challenge you. Your reputations as townies are on the line here. Try to solve me, for real, this time.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Not counting vigs?

Games I was actually vigged in as scum? What are they?

I don't think it's happened yet, tbh.

edit
Or was it Buffy IV? That may have been the only time, and like I said, it was the round after I got converted, and I was townie the entire rest of the time.

That's still a lousy example.

[Visor]

Buffy IV yeah. That's the only game I played with you, with you as a scum. It's an example nonetheless. :P

I haven't made it past night one in my last games except for Vespasian where I was scum, so don't blame me. :P (Except for Midgard. That was my own fault).

[Askthepizzaguy]

Buffy IV yeah. That's the only game I played with you, with you as a scum. It's an example nonetheless. :P

What I'm looking for are examples of games where I was mafia scum (not neutral, not SK) and I was lynched because I was acting scummy.

Why am I doing that?

Because, in this game, there's a mafia. And, I'm being voted because people think me being quieter than usual is scummy.

Okay, then let's run with that premise. If I'm being voted because I am scummy, then I wonder exactly how good our scumdars are. So I checked and lo and behold, the last people to guess correctly and lynch me because I was scummy was 3 years and over a hundred games ago. Now, in the interim, there is a game or two where I'm townie, townie, townie, townie, townie, recruited as cult, then murdered. That's not what I'm looking for as an example of townies actually reading me correctly. That's an example of townies having to guess *who got converted*, not who was *acting scummy*. That's different.

Do you see what I'm saying? And I've been lynched countless times by countless townies who think I'm scummy, and they've either been wrong or had the host point out my scum for them. So either the scumdar needs adjustment, or they need to keep scanning me, and I just think that's lame as heck.



(deep breath)



So, do you think I am scummy? Okay, so why did I ask to be scanned N1, and then ask to be scanned N2? Are you suggesting I have diamond cojones? Are we suggesting that I believe I can survive this game as scum by asking to be scanned and having people not listen to me every time?

Is that the suggestion???

OKAY! LETS RUN WITH THAT! I APPRECIATE THE COMPLIMENT!

SCAN ME.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, we don't scan me, and we don't lynch me, because either one should be really bleeping absurd if you think about it.

Maybe you scan someone else and find a scumbag. Maybe you lynch someone else and find a scumbag.

Maybe that's the whole point of getting the "scan pizza" out of the way ASAP, so you'll have a better shot at scanning scum later on in the game, where you have fewer suspects.

Maybe trying to demonstrate how townie I am by asking to be scanned twice in a row, now three times in a row, will assist you in not wasting time lynching me or scanning me.

Maybe all of this was my calculated strategy at the beginning of the game, based on the host's stated setup.

Maybe everything I've done all game long has been 100% pro-town, and demonstrably so, and there's not a single SCUMMY thing about it, and everyone suggesting I'm "scummy" now needs to get their heads examined!


Calm down Neddily diddily diddly.... they tried their best shoddily-iddly-iddly.... not their fault they can't read me worth a diddly diddly diddly....

[Visor]

Sorry for the repeated intrusion but somebody voting ATPG because he is a panicing scum will make my day.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sorry for the repeated intrusion but somebody voting ATPG because he is a panicing scum will make my day.

DOOOOO EEEET!!!! DOOOOOOOOO EEEEEEET!!!!



I want to see that. I want to have this on my record. Make it happen, people.

[Ishmael]

I must say, ATPG's continuous posting and frantic defence of himself really looks like he's panicking scum. Vote:ATPG.

...

Good enough ? That said, I'll retain the vote based on the following logic:

a) If we lynch ATPG and he's innocent, his streak continues
b) If we scan ATPG and he's scum (or town) his streak still continues, as it will count as a detective scan
c) If we lynch ATPG and he's scum, we break his streak.

Therefore, if we want to uphold ATPG's wishes we should take option c) and lynch him. QED .

Also, vote: Populus Romanus.

[Askthepizzaguy]

unvote, vote: Believer

I don't care what random.org said, voting newbies is poor form.

Vote: Memnon

Welcome to mafia at the org, only a few of us are as ill-mannered as that Believer chap.

VOTE: TheLastDays
VOTE: Memnon

I'm just wanting to blend in with the crowd and don't reveal myself as scum.

Nah, but I agree with the view that the "I haven't got a role PM yet OHALP" post was scummy. Furthermore, why did you unvote and then making another random vote?

Memnon can get the shirt. MOAR SHIRTS TO THE CROWD!

JHT voted Memnon the shirt.
Johhog voted Memnon the shirt.
Memnon voted Johnhughthom the shirt.

Memnon: "I checked Double A's room; he's dead. I tried to use the power of the shirt to determine his murderer -- for his throat was slit -- but it was to no avail. All I discovered was that Johhog didn't do it." (Johhog has been scanned as town!)

Johhog: "Well, the shirt obviously works."

Memnon scans Johhog with the shirt.

Makes sense, agreed. Vote: Johhog

Well, now it's just about the process of elimination.

Vote: No Lynch

Memnon votes Johhog for the shirt.

Vote: Believer

Memnon, was there any particular reason you scanned Johhog?

JHT questions why Memnon scanned Johog.

As Montmorency pointed out we want to NL here.

VOTE: Johhog
VOTE: No Lynch

FOR SHIRT AND FOR COUNTRY.

Oh, and I second the question if we get a scan or not if (when) I die. I suppose we would, or Mafia would always kill the shirt holder.

Johog votes himself for the shirt.

When Johhog came down the stairs, alive and healthy, it rendered the others speechless with shock.

Tratorix: "You're... alive?"

Johhog: "Obviously. Unfortunately, Seon wasn't quite as lucky as myself. He is dead. But, I also have news, on a better note. Populus Romanus is town!"

Populus Romanus grinned.

Populus Romanus: "See? Aren't you glad you didn't kill me yesterday? Heehee!!!"

His accusers the previous day just muttered under their breath.

Johog isn't murdered N2.

VOTE: Populus Romanus
VOTE: Askthepizzaguy
Let me get rid of your pain.

Btw, whatcha gonna ask him? The Pizza Guy?

This is the last bleeping straw.


The scumbags are Johhog and Memnon, who used the shirt to "clear" themselves. When the mafia scum wear the shirt, they can "clear" other scumbags, as Zack's smug little smiley face implies.

When they're not murdered at night, I hope you people realize this and destroy them.

As for me, having Johhog vote me instead of scanning me as I requested is good enough reason to MAKE HIM DIE.


unvote, vote: Johhog

Nice try, scummo. But what, may I ask, was your plan for later on in the game? Were you maybe gonna have to murder members of your own team? Maybe?


Vote: Askthepizzaguy for the shirt.

Let me scan Memnon. Even if you don't lynch the clearly guilty Johhog, I'll find out the truth tonight, and I'll have Memnon and Johhog exposed for their treachery by tomorrow. BWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

After that, kill Johnhughthom. Do it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I must say, ATPG's continuous posting and frantic defence of himself really looks like he's panicking scum. Vote:ATPG.

I must say, your post looks like bird poop.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh, in case you're wondering, this is a Zack-hosted game.

Yes, that Zack.

The Zack who hosted Zack mafia and Zack mafia II.

The Zack who creates extremely bizarre setups. He's almost as bad as me in that regard.

This whole game is a concept game. The concept of the game revolves around the shirt.

The shirt, which by the way, the rules don't state explicitly what happens when the scums get the shirt.

The shirt, which by the way, was voted to someone by the people who were then scanned by the shirt.

The shirt, which by the way, is being passed on to the people who got scanned by the shirt.

The people who voted for the people who either held the shirt or were scanned by the shirt, by the way, were voted in kind by the people who either held the shirt or were scanned by the shirt.

Co-inky-dinky-tastic! Surely just a coincidence.

For balance, this game has.... 4 scumbags.

They scan a couple or even three of themselves, and we wonder why they're not getting murdered.

Zack allows them to murder someone. Like Johhog. They still have 3 left. They'll win easily.

Then they continue murdering as we try to scan everyone else in the game who hasn't been scanned.

WELL I SAY NAY-NAY.

Before you can assume all that garbage is true, why not toss a monkey wrench in this grand plan. Why not give the shirt to someone you know is a townie without even having scanned them, i.e. ME.

I'll confirm if Memnon's scan of Johhog is worth ANYTHING AT ALL.

Then, let's have..... I dunno.... someone completely random, you name the person. Have THAT person scan me.

Then you'll know if MY scan of Memnon is worth a darned thing at all.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yes. So there are three options.

1. The mafioso are stupid.
2. It's an attempt to sow discord and try to get us doubting the validity of the investigation results.
3. There is something about the investigation mechanic we are not aware of.

I'm going to assume it's either 2 or 3 since 1 is completely unhelpful. It's a terrible strategy to leave cleared townies alive, since it further narrows our pool of suspects.

Believer, did you really think the shirt would abide a Mafia victory? This isn't some sort of unmanly test of wits

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

LIKE CHESS!

In this game, the iron fists of the town meet the hollow bones of the Mafia - and break them.

Well, Tratorix, you're saying that the Mafia knows something about scan mechanics that we don't.

It's quite possible. The mafia often knows things the town doesn't.

So then what, at least one of the first two scans is Mafia? That's the only way it would make sense. As in, a mafioso wearing the shirt gets opposite scan results?

I find it terribly difficult to believe that the first-timer (Memnon) is Mafia and that we happened to pick Mafia on the first day.

What happens if the mafia get the wolf shirt?

Ah, that changes matters. Very well. Mafia can definitely do something

Unvote: Tratorix

I don't think PR could be mafia though; doesn't make sense to draw attention to oneself with shenanigans.

You were right, Tratorix. You were right, Montmorency. I see it now.

We can still stop their plan. It can happen. But the very first thing that needs to happen is the townies need to take their collective heads out of their collective buttocks and not 100% trust Johhog and Memnon.

Maybe you don't lynch them immediately. Maybe you just test this theory first.

It doesn't matter. It's still early enough in the game. You could play it cautiously, and if I'm right, you've already nailed 2 of the scumbags and you've got some nice leads as to who numbers 3 and 4 could be.

Then you know what? Lynch me anyway. Just to get it out of your system. You know you wanna.

Boo-yah.



edit-


RULES

5. No alignment reveal after death.
6. Deceased players may not reveal any information that is not available in thread, but are allowed to contribute to discussion as much as they like.

Gosh! NO ALIGNMENT REVEAL!

I wonder if maybe it would cause problems if someone scanned as townie but flipped mafia on death!

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm going to repeat that. Because it bears repeating.


RULES

5. No alignment reveal after death.
6. Deceased players may not reveal any information that is not available in thread, but are allowed to contribute to discussion as much as they like.

Gosh! NO ALIGNMENT REVEAL!

I wonder if maybe it would cause problems if someone scanned as townie but flipped mafia on death!


Thank you this has been Askthepizzaguy, Tratorix, and Montmorency solving the game for you. You're welcome.

[Ishmael]

You know what ATPG, you've half convinced me. That is, I'll still vote for you to be lynched, but I'll also vote to give you the shirt.

unvote, vote: ATPG

[Askthepizzaguy]

You know what ATPG, you've half convinced me. That is, I'll still vote for you to be lynched, but I'll also vote to give you the shirt.

unvote, vote: ATPG

Good, you're halfway to a wise decision.

If you don't like me or trust me, ask Seamus Fermanagh or Believer or.... most folks, really, to have the shirt and to scan Memnon tonight.

We can even totally wimp out and go No Lynch.

But seriously. I have the cojones to just blind lynch Johhog for his treachery. I don't need no freaking scan results. Join me?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Now, let's look at the activity chart and see how screwed town is regardless of what I say.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

TOWNIES

Askthepizzaguy- sane
Montmorency- sane
Tratorix- sane
-----
B_Ray- voting for me, but is likely still sane

LESS ACTIVE TOWNIES

Believer- less active
bestrfcplayer- less active
Seamus Fermanagh- less active
Yaropolk- less active
Warman- less active

DUBIOUS

Ishmael- voting for me, even though he wants to give me the shirt. What the fig tree?

LIKELY SCUMBAGS

Johhog -- Scanned Town (N1), voting for me
Memnon
Populus Romanus -- Scanned Town (N2)
johnhughthom

And how much time is remaining?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Deadline:

Well, I'm boned today. That's kewl. But, you still have Tratorix and Montmorency and a smattering of less active folks who can take heed of what I say and save the game.

You lynch me and allow Populus to have the shirt, you won't be able to trust those results. You need someone completely objective and impartial to scan Memnon.

That's the only way you can trust Memnon's scans, and by extension, Johhog's scans.

Ignore me at your peril, have a nice round.

[johnhughthom]

No death reveals, hadn't noticed that.

Vote: ATPG

[Askthepizzaguy]

No death reveals, hadn't noticed that.

Vote: ATPG

Mmmm a little better.

But, this doesn't matter much if I'm lynched. Also, you were the first to vote Memnon the shirt, so I have my peepers on you.

That's only 50/50 really, it's not as bad as what Johhog and Memnon have been doing. There could be a bunch of scumbags and you may have simply gotten unlucky. Or, this could have been your plan. I'm not sure which is the case.

If you manage to stop this nonsense and we get to scan Memnon by someone I trust, then I'll drop you as a suspect for your townie moves here.

For that to happen I need to not be lynched today.

Let me live and have me personally perform the scan, or, a group of three people that are not me, and not Johhog, Memnon, or Populus Romanus get to choose who wears the shirt today to scan Memnon tonight.

You have to scan Memnon and it has to be reliable. Or, we can do things the Askthepizzaguy way, which is lynch based on scummy behavior. Which means lynch Johhog, then Memnon, and then me if you think this is all a trap.

[johnhughthom]

I like to think I have a history of doing something to welcome newbies to games which is all my voting the shirt to Memnon was.

The shirt, which by the way, the rules don't state explicitly what happens when the scums get the shirt.

The obvious answer to this is false results, surely framing Askthepizzaguy on night one would be high on the list of cool things to do for mafia? Didn't happen.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I like to think I have a history of doing something to welcome newbies to games which is all my voting the shirt to Memnon was.

I'd really like to believe you, I need all the allies I can get right now.

The obvious answer to this is false results, surely framing Askthepizzaguy on night one would be high on the list of cool things to do for mafia? Didn't happen.

Not as valuable as the "clearing" of Johhog.

It's a nice idea but here's the big flaw in such a plan:

There aren't more than say, 4 mafia.

Even if you do the scan a player, give them the shirt deal, what happens after about 4 rounds? A townie gets the shirt.

Then what? They scan Memnon or Johhog and that plan unravels completely.

It's super high risk. It won't work, I just exposed the big weakness. Thing is, the scums are going to be a larger team to combat the shirt, and they only need about 4 or 5 mislynches to win the game or have the townies so confused they cannot solve it.

It's worth it. The game is won in the first few rounds really, assuming the townies don't get their act together and doubt the scans quickly.

But townies being townies, they rely on detectives to save the game for them. As such, they deserve to get pwned by the shirt.

But I don't trust these claims, and so therefore, I cannot be defeated by the shirt. I can only be defeated by my fellow townies now.


But yeah, regarding the mafia getting to pick what the scan results are, you're right: I FULLY expect that if any scan on me were to happen by Populus Romanus tonight, I'd scan mafia. But, if say.... one of the people who opposed giving Memnon the shirt were to scan me, I'd scan townie.

Interesting. And if I were to scan townie, I'd get murdered really fast. Same night, most likely.

As such, I can't recommend scanning me except by roughly half of the players in the game which I doubt are invested in this Memnon gambit. Trouble is since I'm a suspect you can't really trust who I would recommend.

Who would be the most impartial?

[Johhog]

Maybe, just maybe, the scum kept us alive just so they could attack us for still being alive, huh? If we don't lynch me today I can accept your run for the shirt, that's fine for me. But the point is, you don't really have any case on me. And yeah, the next non-ATPG-shirtholder should investigate him.