What is fascism and how do we know we have it?

[Slyspy]

Perhaps in the same way that communism would have been wonderful if only they'd done it right?

Exactly!

I've always regarded facism as the individual existing for the state while in communism the state exists for the individual. But this assumes that they actually work, which they don't because people get in the way.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Exactly!

I've always regarded facism as the individual existing for the state while in communism the state exists for the individual. But this assumes that they actually work, which they don't because people get in the way.

I think you have that backwards, or possibly sideways.

Facism is about the "Nation", which is the people as a race, which is why it usually turns racist. Communism talks about "the people" but is really interested in how they fit into the organs of the state as tiny cogs in the machine.

Both are intended to benefit "ordinary citiznes" and both are utterly lacking in compassion, unlike Conservativism and Liberalism, both of which give the individual intrinsic value.

Oh, and before you ask: Socialism is Communism-Lite, it still leans far to far in the direction of the individual as a statistic.

[Ironside]

I think you have that backwards, or possibly sideways.

Facism is about the "Nation", which is the people as a race, which is why it usually turns racist. Communism talks about "the people" but is really interested in how they fit into the organs of the state as tiny cogs in the machine.

Both are intended to benefit "ordinary citiznes" and both are utterly lacking in compassion, unlike Conservativism and Liberalism, both of which give the individual intrinsic value.

Oh, and before you ask: Socialism is Communism-Lite, it still leans far to far in the direction of the individual as a statistic.

I'm not so sure: To put them as states into silly status, communism would be that you put a lottery every year about your job and switches it at that point, while facism would run with a brave new world breeding program. Both might treat people as cogs, but the cogs and the point of the state are very different.

Both ideas have heavy collectivitism, but the big focus about equality in communism does have a considerble influence, that's even notable in the flawed dictorships.

I'm curious about your opinion about Social Democracy then, since it usually got a heavy individulistic focus in there.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I'm with Beskar. For communists, the role of the state in the transitional socialist stage is not to enforce equality, but to remove the inequality created by the supposedly oppressive capitalist system. That is why they are not against property as is often claimed, they are only against bourgeoisie property. Similarly they are not big statists, for them the state just exists to remove the inequalities of capitalism before moving to a stateless society.

Facism is about the "Nation", which is the people as a race, which is why it usually turns racist. Communism talks about "the people" but is really interested in how they fit into the organs of the state as tiny cogs in the machine.

Both are intended to benefit "ordinary citiznes" and both are utterly lacking in compassion, unlike Conservativism and Liberalism, both of which give the individual intrinsic value.

I actually think there is no real difference between fascism/the far-right and conservatism (old school welfare state conservatism that is, not Thatcherism). I might be tempted to say fascism is a more extreme version, but I don't think thats right. I think the fact that the well-known historic fascist movements went the way they did not because of the fascist part, but they were more just a product of their time. The mid-19th century was a totalitarian time for the whole developed world, whether it was communist, fascist or democratic.

Being part of the weird and wonderful world of Ulster/Scottish loyalism, I know a lot of people, including myself, that identify as far-right/national socialist. When you know these peoples views though, they are basically the same as the old welfare state conservatism. Maybe just a slightly more crude and working-class version, but fundamentally the same.