Capo di Tutti Capi IV [Concluded]

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-03-2011, 21:32

Originally Posted by Choxorn

The next two nights, my stay in Mercy made me incapable of doing anything, and then the mafia killed me.

Come on, I totally would have joined you guys if you'd let me! It beats dying any day!

Okay, I probably would have become afflicted with Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, but still.

So yeah, I did nothing much the entire game, joined ATPG and took the red pill, and was immediately mafia-killed. Sigh, I only got one kill. I guess it's only appropriate that it was Nictel. :laugh4

Reason we targeted you was because you weren't having much success advancing and we needed cannon fodder to promote others.

If you had been more successful, you'd have been along for the ride.

A lot of people were targeted for the reason they weren't wiseguy yet, or weren't active enough.... folks who I felt I couldn't rely on in the endgame because they kept missing orders, or if they strayed from my night action groups, or if they couldn't get the job done for any reason. It didn't even have to be your fault, you just needed to lag behind the pack in terms of promotions, and then like a predator thinning out the herd, you'd be taken down for being slower than the others.

One of the things I hated was having to pick the people who died. In general, look at my kills.... who died early?

1) Non-voters
2) Non-talkers
3) Lurkers
4) Folks who talked too much about fight club (ACIN wouldn't shut his yap about what we were doing!)

5) Folks who weren't advancing very far down any path
6) Folks who weren't wiseguys yet

You become a wiseguy and work for me, that's your golden ticket generally. Sigurd struggled and it broke my heart when he got eaten by the communists and I couldn't rely on him anymore.

For reference, here's the kind of I sent people (before I got exposed, even!) to try to recruit them into the mafia.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Okay so I was a bit of an overly theatrical megalomaniac but you can't deny I threw myself into character.

Sigurd could have just posted this in the public thread and you'd all know I wrote it and therefore lynch me, and found out I was being protected from that, and then the night actions would have started on me....

I risked a lot being such an openly evil bastard. Still, nobody exposed me until GeneralHankerchief had the inclination to do so. After that things got even easier for me because everyone wanted to be mafia except for folks like Erebus and Reidquat and Populus Romanus etc... everyone else wanted to have an openly evil scumbag to turn to and they wanted connections to the mafia.

That is what I sought to be, the gateway from town to scum, the portal between good and evil, the golden ticket to freedom and villainy. And for a time, that's what I was. And then I cranked up the evil all the way to eleven and became the main menace, so people would have someone they needed to defeat in order to win.

They came close, well fought.

Also that's enough Star Wars references already, Pizzaguy.

**DaveShack** · 12-03-2011, 21:35

I thought from about the 3rd day or so that ATPG was a don at that point, because he was the first (and almost only) one to contact me about the lynch protection. I guess the Dons didn't want to contact me directly? And maybe they neglected to pass on the codeword?

My role prevented me from winning directly as Capo, because I couldn't follow the wiseguy->made->don path. I was actually quite willing to contact the governor for any mafioso, but aside from ATPG the only one who actually contacted me about it was Renata. I stayed true to my word that I wasn't solely in Pizza's pocket, and would have been willing to protect Renata if asked -- but ironically one of my kids got sick and I would have missed the orders deadline. I'm actually glad that didn't happen, as I took a bit of pride in playing honorably to the extent that someone mafia-aligned can. My VC was to protect a member of the winning family, so it would have been beneficial to get a protection in on every family to hedge my bets.

As became common knowledge about 2/3 of the way in, at least among those who were in the "3 family" QT, I could have caused a 2nd place lynch if my lynch prediction was correct. One of the other mafia could have taken Pizza down by surprise via that mechanic, but nobody tried it.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-03-2011, 22:00

Originally Posted by DaveShack

I thought from about the 3rd day or so that ATPG was a don at that point, because he was the first (and almost only) one to contact me about the lynch protection. I guess the Dons didn't want to contact me directly? And maybe they neglected to pass on the codeword?

My role prevented me from winning directly as Capo, because I couldn't follow the wiseguy->made->don path. I was actually quite willing to contact the governor for any mafioso, but aside from ATPG the only one who actually contacted me about it was Renata. I stayed true to my word that I wasn't solely in Pizza's pocket, and would have been willing to protect Renata if asked -- but ironically one of my kids got sick and I would have missed the orders deadline. I'm actually glad that didn't happen, as I took a bit of pride in playing honorably to the extent that someone mafia-aligned can. My VC was to protect a member of the winning family, so it would have been beneficial to get a protection in on every family to hedge my bets.

As became common knowledge about 2/3 of the way in, at least among those who were in the "3 family" QT, I could have caused a 2nd place lynch if my lynch prediction was correct. One of the other mafia could have taken Pizza down by surprise via that mechanic, but nobody tried it.

DaveShack I love you and I want to have your babies.

**Choxorn** · 12-04-2011, 01:38

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Reason we targeted you was because you weren't having much success advancing and we needed cannon fodder to promote others.

If you had been more successful, you'd have been along for the ride.

A lot of people were targeted for the reason they weren't wiseguy yet, or weren't active enough.... folks who I felt I couldn't rely on in the endgame because they kept missing orders, or if they strayed from my night action groups, or if they couldn't get the job done for any reason. It didn't even have to be your fault, you just needed to lag behind the pack in terms of promotions, and then like a predator thinning out the herd, you'd be taken down for being slower than the others.

One of the things I hated was having to pick the people who died. In general, look at my kills.... who died early?

1) Non-voters
2) Non-talkers
3) Lurkers
4) Folks who talked too much about fight club (ACIN wouldn't shut his yap about what we were doing!)

5) Folks who weren't advancing very far down any path
6) Folks who weren't wiseguys yet

You certainly could have relied on me, seeing as you'd helped me a lot, even if all the other mafia could probably reasonably expect me to be a Blu Spy, a Red Spy, and a Green Spy.

And come on, attacking me on Night 7 when I was only one hit away? Surely there were some more lurkers to kill at that point.

**Death is yonder** · 12-04-2011, 04:58

So ends the long and epic tale of a saga, bathed in blood.

Definitely a big thank you to GH and 'khaan for stepping up, and making this end-game even possible, and of course, to Seamus for even conceptualizing and dealing with the starting game activity and solo-managing 117 people, amazing

Congratulations to ATPG as well, the master weaver of intricate webs, for his well-earned victory.

This game I guess I'm just thankful that I didn't get offed like Night 2 such as in the previous iteration of the series, and whilst I was generally following along ATPG for the first half of the game, things got really interesting afterwards.

I think definitely, many of my plans to pit the mafia against the other mafia was foiled, but other than a few booboos I think that we gave the Corleone the much needed protections more often than not and very nearly gave ATPG a run for his money, and to that end, I am glad that the end game wasn't a walkover as might have been expected.

I'd like to thank all the chaps who were working with me in the townie side, though it seemed insurmountable at many times: Beefy, sturm, Erebus, guiri, edse, Populus, BillMC and any others. Whilst Seon was sometimes arguably a sneaky chap who was probably working with ATPG, I just want to thank him as well, and also SisterCoyote for sticking with us in that near-decisive round where ATPG was almost lynched. And of course, the Corleone chaps: Niklas, Renata, BL, Winston, GE. Talked a fair bit with them and tried to accommodate them as best as could be allowed, and while they were of course planning to backstab us if they had the chance to, it was good to have nearly snatched victory from the jaws of defeat together

Admittedly I was a tad disappointed that sturm was selected for the lynch because just a while before that, he had finally passed over leadership to me, expressing how that task was becoming more of a chore. I encouraged him to go and have himself some fun and it was quite saddening that that bright spark of his was extinguished so swiftly after that event. Still, his leadership was invaluable it was definitely a pleasure to work with him and the other townies (and mafia)

In the end, I'm just happy that I managed to stay true to the path that I envisioned for myself, and also managed to cause some grief to the various mafia factions, despite our very limited resources and comparatively limited intel. Not to mention, if not for that meddling lawyer and those papers (

), I would have managed to help incite a successful lynch on ATPG twice

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Good game

**Erebus** · 12-04-2011, 08:48

Congratz Pizza and team.

Thanks GH, 'khan and Seamus for hosting.

I had fun.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-04-2011, 09:00

For the record newcomers: I don't usually have such an iron grip on things and when they lynch me I usually freaking die.

Don't give up, keep playing here!

**Montmorency** · 12-04-2011, 09:02

Hey, so are you going to get back to participating in games other than Capo, now?

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-04-2011, 09:48

So, over the course of the game, the Anachronism Hour with DJ Saucy Slice made sort of a Capo IV soundtrack. Here it is.

1. Saliva- Ladies and Gentlemen [Day One, 9/12]
2. Guns N Roses- Paradise City [Day Two, 9/15]
3. Lipps Inc- Funkytown [Day Three, 9/18]
4. P.O.D.- Youth of the nation [Day Four, 9/21]
5. Metallica- Seek and Destroy [Day Five, 9/24]
6. Evanescence- What you want [Day Five, 9/25]
7. Nine Inch Nails- The Hand that Feeds [Day Six, 9/27]
8. Hollywood Undead- Been to Hell [Day Seven, 10/1]
9. Alice in Chains- Rooster [Day Seven, 10/3]
10. Rage against the Machine- Bulls on Parade [Day Eight, 10/11]
11. Five Finger Death Punch- The Bleeding [Day Nine, 10/15]
12. Drowning Pool- Bodies [Day Ten, 10/18]
13. Foo Fighters- Walk [Day Eleven, 10/23]
14. Volbeat- A Warrior's Call [Day Twelve, 10/26]
15. Adelita's Way- Invincible [Night Twelve, 10/27]
16. Disturbed- Another way to die [Day Thirteen,10/28]
17. Megadeth- Public Enemy No. 1 [Day Fourteen, 11/2]
18. Cypress Hill- Rock Superstar [Day Fifteen, 11/5]
19. Papa Roach- No Matter What [Day Sixteen, 11/8]
20. Godsmack- Realign [Day Seventeen 11/11]
21. Metallica- One [Night Eighteen 11/18]
22. Pop Evil- Monster You Made [Night Twenty, 11/24]
23. Adelita's Way- The Collapse [Day Twenty-One, 11/28]
24. The Offspring- The Kids Aren't Alright [Day Twenty-Three, 12/3]

BONUS TRACKS

25. Dr. Evil- Hard Knock Life [hilarious, but couldn't find a place to put it.]
26. Rihanna- Umbrella [Director campaign theme song. "Umbrella" references my kill method in Capo III, IV]
27. Redlight King- Bullet in my hand [Would have been track 24, but could not find censored version of the song. TOO HOT for the .org] So only a link to youtube is allowed.
28. Godsmack- Awake [Would have used this song when I survived a lynch, but again, couldn't find censored version. TOO HOT for the .org]
29. Motorhead- The Game [Wanted to use this somewhere... never got around to it.]
30. Globus- Preliator ["Emperor's" theme I used to tempt Sigurd]

And one for the road:

31. Pearl Jam- Alive [For those of you who survived the game]

Obviously the songs I chose have meaning, and the meaning is usually fairly obvious. I tend to highlight the part of the lyrics I had in mind during those posts.

1. Saliva- Ladies and Gentlemen [Day One, 9/12]

This song is meant to welcome everyone to the game and tell people to keep an eye on me. I intended to put on a special performance this time.

2. Guns N Roses- Paradise City [Day Two, 9/15]

This song essentially gives a status report for the town. The happier and more upbeat the songs, the better the townies are doing. The darker and harder the song, the better the mafia are doing. I follow this pattern for many, many rounds. Fatlington by day two is essentially a townie's paradise, hence... Paradise City.

3. Lipps Inc- Funkytown [Day Three, 9/18]

Town still doing just fine, but things are getting interesting behind the scenes. By now, I've made a bunch of mafia contacts.

4. P.O.D.- Youth of the nation [Day Four, 9/21]

The townies are starting to bleed a bit. The first major violence is happening and the song is a bit less upbeat. The lyrics imply that many good people are getting gunned down.

5. Metallica- Seek and Destroy [Day Five, 9/24]

By now the mafia recruitment and kills are getting into full swing. The number of murders increased from here and people were doing lots of vig kills to become mafia.

6. Evanescence- What you want [Day Five, 9/25]

By now, I'm hinting very heavily to everyone that they should choose their own path no matter what... because thinking you've got to stay townie when you could advance to wiseguy, I felt, was trapping people. You should play the game any way you like, choose a career and go all the way, baby. I of course thought you should go mafia, but hey, some folks went doctor and did okay.

7. Nine Inch Nails- The Hand that Feeds [Day Six, 9/27]

This one is fairly obvious. Would the townies bite the hand that feeds them, or would they stay down on their knees? I was both a provider of organization, but also their main nemesis. So I'm dropping big ole hints about that here.

8. Hollywood Undead- Been to Hell [Day Seven, 10/1]

"I'm a wolf among the sheep" was very clear. I was announcing to the world that I was scummy, scummy scummy. Fitting that this round, Tincow and GH outed me pretty good. And of course, that leads to my lynch, and....

9. Alice in Chains- Rooster [Day Seven, 10/3]

This is my freaking theme song now. Ain't found a way to kill me yet!

10. Rage against the Machine- Bulls on Parade [Day Eight, 10/11]

This one is also very obvious. I was inviting people to "Rally round the Family" so, I wanted them to go mafia with me.

11. Five Finger Death Punch- The Bleeding [Day Nine, 10/15]

Ummmmm.... like 17 people got attacked night eight. So, the crying, the bleeding, the screaming.... this one isn't subtle either.

12. Drowning Pool- Bodies [Day Ten, 10/18]

More of the same. Massive death tolls every night. The mafia is in full kill everything mode. Still took a while to cut down the townie numbers!

13. Foo Fighters- Walk [Day Eleven, 10/23]

I make a play for the Directorship, because, "I never wanna die". The Directorship would protect me at night better than any Luca or Doctor. Me gaining the Directorship is pretty bad news for the town.

14. Volbeat- A Warrior's Call [Day Twelve, 10/26]

This is where the Barzini, Pentangeli, and other families start getting into it with the Stracchi/Cunio etc. The mafia wars really begin around this point.

15. Adelita's Way- Invincible [Night Twelve, 10/27]

I become Director, that plus the Lawyer means "Invincible" is fairly fitting.

16. Disturbed- Another way to die [Day Thirteen,10/28]

We had attacked Crazed Rabbit the night prior, and he survived, so we needed to find him another way to die...

17. Megadeth- Public Enemy No. 1 [Day Fourteen, 11/2]

This is in reference to so many folks wanting me dead, dead, dead, and there I was sitting in the Director's chair, immune from the police. Worst case scenario for the townies, really.

18. Cypress Hill- Rock Superstar [Day Fifteen, 11/5]

This one, with the altered lyrics, is an open invitation to everyone capable of doing so, to make a grab for Capo di Tutti Capi.

19. Papa Roach- No Matter What [Day Sixteen, 11/8]

This one was right after I instructed the Corleones how to spare themselves from not one, two, but three deaths at the same time that night. I was sort of throwing myself into the role of peacemaker. Of course, later on, I'd reverse that position again. The lyrics reference making it out of this place alive. So cheesy. So hammy. "Nothing can take us down tonight..." and "we will make it out alive..." what lies. What horrible lies.

20. Godsmack- Realign [Day Seventeen 11/11]

Here's where I decided to turn my back on the Cunio Don and forge my own family. Realign is quite literally what I was doing. So gnarlycharlie died and myself and Krill and Neri went and realigned as Clemenza.

21. Metallica- One [Night Eighteen 11/18]

This was posted just before I attacked the Corleone with full force. The result was intended for them to be dead or hopelessly crippled, and the lyrics allude to that.

22. Pop Evil- Monster You Made [Night Twenty, 11/24]

This one's obvious. The lyrics are also a bit of me, OOC, responding to my horrible behavior as Don Clemenza. But of course I couldn't become the monster that I was without dozens of players who enabled me to become that. So the lyrics have meaning there as well. It's not just the monster I've become, but the monster you made me.

23. Adelita's Way- The Collapse [Day Twenty-One, 11/28]

These lyrics are admittedly pretty harsh, but if they're viewed from an IC perspective from Don Clemenza, it makes a lot more sense. Pulling the strings, etc, is fitting because of how Clemenza controlled his empire. The Collapse also refers to the final destruction of the town resistance.

24. The Offspring- The Kids Aren't Alright [Day Twenty-Three, 12/3]

How can one little street swallow so many lives?

**GeneralHankerchief** · 12-04-2011, 09:56

Brief fill-in cohost's commentary:

I'm not really sure what there is to say, really. This was never my game in the first place - khaan and I were just caretakers. Because of this I feel less comfortable about talking about its balancing issues, compared to my actual games where I happily take a hacksaw and chop away afterwards.

Also, I sent an email to Seamus letting him know the game was done, so hopefully he'll pop up here and offer his own thoughts, and I don't want to steal his thunder.

That said, I deliberately decided to be kept out of the loop for this game for a couple reasons. Yes, I transitioned as an impartial observer once I put the cohost's hat on... but I still really freaking wanted ATPG to die. Of course I wanted him to die. I had been gunning all-out for him for a few IRL days before and things were about to come to a head. Every single bit of information I had received only served to show me how solidified ATPG's position was.

How do you successfully run a game when you're actively rooting against one of its biggest players? Keep your head down, execute orders, and stay out of the loop. I think I more or less accomplished this.

Host GH isn't surprised by this result, but Player GH is disappointed. It all seemed so... anticlimactic.

That's really all I have to say about things. Again, I stayed out of the loop, so there really isn't any behind-the-scenes antics that I can shed light on. I'll let the game speak for itself. That's the way it ought to be, really.

khaan will have more to say about things, but the one issue we both had issue with was the inclusion of DaveShack's "Shyster" character. This is nothing against Dave, he won basically the highest level of victory possible and then some and played brilliantly, but we both feel very strongly about lynch-blockers and just the sanctity of the lynch in general. If you're lynched, you should be dead, period. It's the one finality in mafia games: No matter what happens, if you screw up here, there's no coming back from it. Anything that messes with the lynch (not vote-changing, the actual lynch) is far too overpowered.

All that said, congratulations to the Capo and all of the other winners. It was a well-earned victory and I was glad to be able to step in and see the game through.

**Ishmael** · 12-04-2011, 10:05

If you wouldn't mind DaveShack, would you be able to post your role PM?

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-04-2011, 10:35

This post has been updated with more info about the song selection. Took me a while.

And yes, I want to see DaveShack's role PM, and LazyMcCrow's role PM, and Kagemusha's role Pm. PLEASE!! Those people had the really interesting roles.

And Andres' role Pm would be nice, since he was the Special Agent. BTW I didn't kill Tincow, Arjos, Andres, and a whole host of other really pro-town roles. Somehow, others got really lucky in that regard. I didn't betray you, Andres. I wanted to help the guy, actually.... because I think he was looking for either LazyMcCrow or Oh!TheLastDays, one of those two was probably his target. methinks OTLD was it, but I don't honestly know.

**shlin28** · 12-04-2011, 17:00

What a game! Thanks to Seamus, GH and Khaan :) Was a great read despite being out of the loop on basically everything :P

**classical_hero** · 12-04-2011, 17:24

Paradise City is not a positive song. Which perfectly described the town as a paradise city.

Am I the only one who hears "The Game" and thinks of Hunter Hearst Helmsley?

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-04-2011, 17:27

Originally Posted by classical_hero

Am I the only one who hears "The Game" and thinks of Hunter Hearst Helmsley?

That's where I heard the song from originally. Come to think of it, I don't know of any other songs by Motorhead that I like or..... know of in the first place.

**Kagemusha** · 12-04-2011, 18:17

Here is my role pm.I was supposed to be a compelled killer of sorts. Though i feel that a good role was wasted and someone more active might have done very well in it.For me this was my low point in Capo history.Real life hampered me quite completely and i think i may have sent one or two set of orders in the game before i was killed.I havent followed the game.But once i have time i will surely read what happened at fatlington this time.In any case congratulations to the winners!

:

Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

OOC Okay shadow warrior, random.org decided you get the toughest role play -- the compelled killer. Good luck!

This entire sheet of information is to be considered secret and is not to be revealed to other players unless specifically noted in the sheet below or with the express permission of the host.

Role: Compelled Serial Killer

Alignment: Townie, sort of

Summary: You are actually the nicest of persons…mostly. You just have this odd little quirk about helping others. Once you have helped them, it is necessary in the interest of cosmic justice for some of them to pay with their lives. You find this little quirk of yours embarrassing and frustrating – heaven knows it’s not something you really enjoy – but things just have to happen that way.

Victory Conditions: Your victory conditions are the same as those of your cover role. In addition, however, the following modifiers apply:
• If you manage to kill more than three players because of your primary compulsion you add two steps to your victory level.
• If you kill two or three players because of your primary compulsion you add one step to your victory level.
• If you kill more than five persons in your serial killer persona you add one step to your victory level.

Abilities:

Daytime:

1. You may vote to lynch or select as can any other player.

2. You may not attempt to fight off a lynch vote. You can respond with something akin to “I don’t wish to be lynched” or “Please don’t,” but may not mount a true defense. Feel free to have others defend you if you can.

Nightime:

Active Actions: You will have the abilities of your cover role, and:

1. On the first two nights out of every three night sequence, you must exercise your cover (Doctor) persona’s protection ability normally. You may not, however, participate in a townie vigilante or other kill group.

2. On each successive third night (3rd, 6th, 9th, etc.) you must attempt to kill one of your previous two night’s protectees (1st and 2nd night as target for 3rd; 4th or 5th for 6th etc.). If both are dead already, you will instead attempt to kill the 3rd place vote getter of the previous day’s lynch voting (you may attempt to kill up to 3 persons if more than one were tied for 3rd place in the lynch voting). This is your primary compulsion. All of your serial killer kills must have a consistent theme – this can be a repeated symbol, slogan or method. Ideally it should reflect the psychological motivation for your killings. Have fun.

3. If 3 attacks fail on the same target, or if the same target is protected successfully when you attack for three times, or if you are prevented from 3rd night kill efforts either by role blocking, directorship or some other intervening factor; you will suicide.

Passive Actions: You have none, unless specified by the secret abilities and traits PM.

Secret Abilities/Traits:

These are listed in your second pre-game PM and are not to be revealed or discussed during play…only used.

Regarding Investigations

1. If investigated by a made or detective, your status is likely to be “innocent,” as per your cover role. It is possible that the role-screening component of such an investigation may discover you, but it is more likely that they will discover your cover role instead. Repeat investigations of the same player carry a progressively greater chance of penetrating your cover role or even your true role.

2. If an investigation is launched on you during a 3rd night, your status will come back “unclear.” This may prove to be a source of risk.

Role Changing: You may not change roles, though your cover role may progress as usual.

**classical_hero** · 12-04-2011, 18:46

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

That's where I heard the song from originally. Come to think of it, I don't know of any other songs by Motorhead that I like or..... know of in the first place.

I am a big wrestling fan.

**DaveShack** · 12-04-2011, 18:51

Here's my role PM.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

The entirety of the following role sheet is to be considered RED material and revealed only under the circumstances outlined in the role sheet below or with the permission of the host.

Role: Shyster

Alignment: Mafia-aligned, no particular family.

Summary: Your real name is Storto Avocato, though you’ve taken pains to hide this fact. You seem to be nothing more than a typical small city attorney, but in reality you’ve been on retainer to The Commission for years. It is your job to smooth out difficulties for the mafia. You are not a person for “wetwork,” and you want to maintain your image of upstanding citizen while working quietly for the mafia to win. You may be contacted by the mafia family Dons to help them at their request, but you have no knowledge of their identities at the outset.

Victory Conditions: Use the chart below:

Decisive victory = one mafia family conquers Fatlington after you have saved one or more of their personnel.
Clear victory = one mafia family conquers Fatlington but did not use your assistance
Close victory = The town defeats the mafia but you have saved two or more mafia personnel.
Neither side wins = draw.
Close defeat = The town defeats the mafia, but you save one Mafioso.
Clear defeat = The town defeats the mafia; you save no Mafiosi.
Decisive defeat = The town defeats the mafia; you save no Mafiosi, and you are killed.
• Your personal survival moves you two steps up on this scale.

Abilities:

Daytime:

1. You may vote to lynch or select as can any other player.

2. All Five Mafia Dons know your name, but their subordinates do not (at the outset). In contacting you, a Don should use the codeword “Santino.”

3. As a continuation of one of your passive night actions, you may need to contact the host before the end of lynch voting with your decision. This is not an ability you have at the start.

Nightime:

Active Actions

1. In combination with 2 other townies, you can form a protection group (3 required) and attempt to protect one other player. If no attack occurs, nothing happens. If the target is attacked your group will save he r/him and receive credit for the save. More than 3 townies can work in the same group (limit 5), though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If only 2 townies participate in a save effort and the target is attacked, that effort automatically fails. If only 1 townie attempts a save and the target is attacked, that effort fails and the townie has a 1 in 6 chance of dying (50%) or being revealed by name (50%) in that failed attempt.

2. In combination with 4 other townies, you can form a vigilante group (5 required) and attempt to kill one other player. More than 5 townies can work in the same group (limit 7), though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If fewer than 5 townies participate in a kill effort, that effort automatically fails. If only 1 townie attempts a kill, that effort fails and the townie has a 1 in 6 chance of dying (50%) or being revealed by name (50%) in that failed attempt.

Passive Actions

1. Each night you may submit the name of one player who you suspect will be lynched the next day. If that player leads in the voting, a special message from the governor will prevent that player being lynched (that time). You will be credited with a save. After three such saves, you will gain the option to cause the lynching of the second place vote getter in place of the expected lynch target at your discretion. You must PM your decision on whether or not to lynch the second place recipient BEFORE the conclusion of lynch voting for that day.

Secret Abilities/Traits:

These are listed in your second pre-game PM and are not to be revealed or discussed during play…only used.

Regarding Investigations

1. If you are investigated by a detective, you will be evaluated as “innocent.” After saving three persons from a lynch, you will register as “unclear.” If you are involved in a successful killing, you will register as “guilty” thereafter.

Role Changing: You may not change roles. Your cover role may appear to change roles as a camouflage, but you will not be able to exceed standard townie active abilities.

My first game on this site, a huge one, and randomization hands me this beauty. Yes, I agree it bordered on too powerful, at least in traditional mafia terms. But it fits right in with the theme, and I think it would be fine to reuse occasionally. Perhaps a slight nerf in the form of only being able to protect an individual once.

**Double A** · 12-04-2011, 18:51

What was your red text, Kage?

**Reenk Roink** · 12-04-2011, 18:59

Didn't play and didn't follow the game but I can't say I'm surprised with the end result. Congrats to Atpg and his family.

Wish I could have been there in Fatlington.

**Kagemusha** · 12-04-2011, 19:12

Originally Posted by Double A

What was your red text, Kage?

There you go:

Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Special Trait: Chameleon

You have always been able to charm people, dazzle them with bovine excrement, and have always had a skill at planting things to “pad your resume.” This allows you the ability to camouflage your investigation results to read as you wish them to read. For one night – b.s. has a short shelf life – you will display status results as you wish to: innocent, criminal, unclear, or even guilty. You will also temporarily decrease the investigator’s ability to penetrate your role. You may do this twice during the game.

**Double A** · 12-04-2011, 20:11

Same as me. Don't think I ever got scanned, though.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-04-2011, 20:40

Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

Didn't play and didn't follow the game but I can't say I'm surprised with the end result. Congrats to Atpg and his family.

Wish I could have been there in Fatlington.

You were. You made at least one appearance in I think Seamus or Generalhankerchief's writeups involving Club 30.

In classic Reenk mode, of course.

My role PMs and Red Text:

Wiseguy unaligned (STARTING ROLE)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Role: Wisseguy(gal)

Alignment: Unaligned

Summary: You’ve always played by your own rules when you could. A boring 9-5 and a gold watch after half your life never appealed to you. Maybe you’ve been working as a thief or a tough guy; perhaps you’ve just been cutting corners on the paperwork; maybe you’ve been on the grift. Whatever the dodge, you’re one of the wisenheimers who seem to cluster in Fatlington as do moths at a porch lamp – it is that kind of a town.
Whatever your story, you are the raw material of greatness in Fatlington. You may be recruited by the mafia, join together with other townies in a crusade against the Mafiosi, strike out on your own and try to take over the place with a few friends, or even all of the above. There is risk in Fatlington, but there is almost limitless potential as well. It is up to you.

Victory Conditions: If you remain loyal to the town, your victory conditions will be as below:

Town win with 41+% of original townie roles surviving = decisive victory.
Town win with 21-40% of original townie roles surviving = clear victory.
Town win with fewer than 20% of the original townie roles surviving = close victory.
Neither side wins = draw.
Town defeat with fewer than 10% of the orginal mafiosi or wiseguys surviving = close defeat.
Town defeat 11-25% of orginal mafiosi or wiseguys roles surviving = clear defeat.
Town defeat 26+% of orginal mafiosi or wiseguys roles surviving = decisive defeat.
-- Your personal survival moves you one category up on this scale.

If you choose to continue a life of crime, success will likely lead you to change roles and adopt those victory conditions instead.

Abilities:

Daytime:

1. You may vote to lynch or select as can any other player.

Nightime:

Active Actions

1. In combination with 2 other townies, you can form a protection group (3 required) and attempt to protect one other player. If no attack occurs, nothing happens. If the target is attacked your group will save her/him and receive credit for the save. More than 3 townies can work in the same group (limit 5), though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If only 2 townies participate in a save effort and the target is attacked, that effort automatically fails. If you are the only protector and the target is attacked, that effort fails and you have a 1 in 6 chance of being revealed by name.

2. In combination with 4 other townies or with 2 other Wiseguys, you can form a vigilante group (5 required; or 3 wiseguys) and attempt to kill one other player. More than 5 townies can work in the same group (limit 7; limit 5 for a wiseguy hit), though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If fewer than 5 townies or 3 wiseguys participate in a kill effort, that effort automatically fails. If you are the only attacker, that effort fails and you have a 1 in 6 chance of being revealed by name.

3. If you are sanctioned by a Mafia Don, you may attempt a kill as part of a two person team (limit 4 if extras are used), partnering with another wiseguy or a made gangster. If the attack fails, there is normally no chance of you being revealed. This is NOT true of an unsanctioned kill, which runs the same risk as for townie/wiseguy-only attack teams.

Passive Actions: You have no passive abilities aside from something in your secret abilities/traits.

Secret Abilities/Traits:

These are listed in your second pre-game PM and are not to be revealed or discussed during play…only used.

Regarding Investigations

1. If you are investigated by a made or a detective, it is likely that you will be revealed as a “criminal,” though a minority of wiseguys read as “unclear.” Should you be engaged in a successful killing, your status would read as “guilty” if you are investigated that same night. Thereafter, your status would be criminal even if you were “unclear” before then.

2. You are not able to investigate others.

Role Changing: One of the more interesting qualities of a Wiseguy is their ability to change roles.

1. If you perform two successful protections, you may (at random among your group) be offered the opportunity to cease being a Wiseguy and become a townie Doctor. You may refuse the offer, but it will not be repeated.

2. If you perform two successful protections and then perform two successful townie killings (not wiseguy teams), you will be given the opportunity to become a Rogue Detective. Rogues can both investigate and under some circumstances, solo-kill.

3. If you perform two sanctioned kills for a mafia family, and with the permission of that family’s Don, you may become a Made Gangster in that family and progress in that role.

4. If you perform four successful killings with a team of Wiseguys, one of that team will become a Made Gangster (unaligned). If you perform five successful killings with such a team, any and all with five kills become Made Gangsters. Two or more Mades can attempt to form their own family.

ROLE PM 2 [RED TEXT]

Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Special Trait: Connections

You have a friend with “connections” who you once saved from a jam. Once during a night phase of the game, though not on Night #1, you can ask this friend to provide you with information on a single player. The information you get (at the beginning of the 2nd day phase following) may not be complete, but will be better than a typical detective’s first efforts AND it will be completely accurate.

Special Trait: Recruiter’s Luck

You are unusually lucky. The first time you are successfully attacked, that attack will fail and you will survive without serious harm. Be careful, while you will survive the first attack in a manner that seems lucky, you will not survive subsequent attacks – even on the same night. Once you have used your luck it is gone. This trait is automatic and cannot be “turned off.”
This is a special reward trait for your contribution and is in addition to any other trait or traits.

I used the "Connections" ability to verify Neri's result on Sasaki. I hadn't become a Made so I couldn't do investigations yet. Figured I wanted to be doubly sure on Sasaki being a Don, because that meant either I would have to try to win under Sasaki, or I'd have to try to kill Sasaki. I didn't want the result to be spoofed or altered.

I used up my luck (never used it in Capo III) in stepping down from the Director's seat and allowing Renata to hit me. If someone else had hit me too, I'd be dead.

Promoted to Made Gangster:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Congratulations. Don Cunnio has elevated you to the status of "Made Gangster" in his family (and it is an offer you can't refuse). You are now a confirmed mafioso, bound by the tradition of omerta.

NOTE: Don's name and family name are starred "inserts" in this role. Your family is Cunio, your Don may or may not be revealed to you at present (only the initial made is guaranteed this information).

Here is your new role; red PM information is unchanged:

Role: Made Gangster

Alignment: Mafioso; Family: Cunnio

Summary: You are a Made gangster and a key subordinate of your Don. You handle the “wetwork” for the family and are also able to use your sources to investigate others for recruitment/opportunities. As a member of your family, your goal is to have your family achieve primacy by a) eliminating the Dons of the other families and b) outnumbering the surviving townies and Mafiosi of different families. While your personal survival is important, a victory for your family is of equal or greater importance.

Victory Conditions: See below:

Decisive Victory = Your Don becomes Capo di Tutti Capi with at least 4 surviving family members.
Clear Victory = Your Don becomes Capo di Tutti Capi with 3 or fewer surviving family members.
Close Victory = A starting Mafia family wins besides your own.
Draw = neither side can claim victory.
Close Defeat = The town wins with fewer than 10% of the original townies and non-aligned wiseguys surviving OR a “Third party” claims victory.
Clear Defeat = The town wins with between 10% and 33% of the original townies and non-aligned wiseguys surviving.
Crushing Defeat = The town wins with more than 33% of the original townies and non-aligned wiseguys surviving.
- Your personal survival increases this level of victory by one.
- If you personally supplant your starting Don you will need to obtain victory conditions as a Don. This is also true if you are the one who arranges your Don’s removal, though in that case you will receive a bonus level of victory for your successful skullduggery as well. Warning, the price of failure in such a move is high and takes one victory level away.

Abilities:

1. You may not “go straight” – for you a life of mafia crime is a decided question.

2. If your family has lost its Don, or if your group has never had one, you may ascend to the Role of Don by: a) having at least one other Made in the family/group (2 or more needed), b) having all the other Made Gangsters in your family agree to your becoming the Don, and c) providing that you did not participate personally in the killing of the previous Don.

2. Your Don is gnarlycharlie.

Daytime:

1. You may vote to lynch or select as can any other player.

Nightime:

Active Actions

1. If desired, you may combine with 1 other Made or Wise Guy and can attempt to kill one target per night. If you have a wiseguy partner, the hit must be sanctioned by the Don to work. You may conduct one investigation as well.

2. You may combine with two other Mades to protect another mafioso. After two successful defenses [kill attempted and thwarted] one of you will be selected as a new Luca for the family (should you lack one). This is the only protection mission you can perform. You may conduct one investigation as well.

3. You may participate in a townie killing-group, functioning normally (as 1 of 5), but while doing so you may not conduct any investigations or conduct a family killing.

4. You may participate in a townie protection group, but you cannot provide any protection value so any protection team where you are not an “extra” WILL fail. You can conduct one investigation while “goofing off” this way, though you cannot conduct a family killing.

Passive Actions

1. On a night when you are not involved in any active night actions, you may conduct two investigations. On most other nights, you may conduct one. You may not investigate on a night you work with a townie kill team.

Secret Abilities/Traits:

These are listed in your second pre-game PM and are not to be revealed or discussed during play…only used.

Regarding Investigations

1. It is most probable that, if investigated by a Detective or by a Made Gangster, you will be discovered as “criminal.” You will only register as “guilty” on the night of a killing if you have participated in that killing.

2. When investigating a person, you will learn if they are “criminal” (Mades, Lucas, most Wise Guys), “Unclear” (Some Wise Guys, a few Townies) or “Innocent” (Dons, Most Townies, Detectives, Doctors, Surgeons, and the FBI Detective). You have a small chance of discovering the target’s role as well, but this chance is one level lower than the equivalent Detective investigation chance.

Role Changing:

1. After 3 or more successful sanctioned killings, and provided that your family has at least 5 members, you may be promoted Consigliare by the Don. Though of no advantage on active actions, you receive some additional protection and your investigative abilities are greatly increased.

2. If your family has lost its Don, or if your group has never had one, you may ascend to the Role of Don by: a) having at least one other Made in the family/group (2 or more needed), b) having all the other Made Gangsters in your family agree to your becoming the Don, and c) providing that you did not participate personally in the killing of the previous Don.

Selected as Don Clemenza

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Originally Posted by issaikhaan

Role: Mafia Don

Alignment: Mafioso; Family: Clemenza

Summary: You are the boss of a crime family, and your goal is to take over Fatlington and become the Capo de Tutti Capi (Captain of Captains). To do this, you will need to eliminate all of the other Dons and establish a crime family that outnumbers the remaining Mafiosi and citizens of the town

Victory Conditions:

Decisive Victory = You become Capo de Tutti Capi with 4 or more surviving family members including yourself.
Clear Victory = You become Capo de Tutti Capi with 3 or fewer surviving family members including yourself, OR your family wins under the leadership of a new Don, despite your death.
Close Victory = A starting Mafia family wins besides your own OR a draw occurs but you personally survive.
Draw = neither side can claim victory.
Close Defeat = The town wins with fewer than 10% of the original townies and non-aligned wiseguys surviving OR a “Third party” claims victory.
Clear Defeat = The town wins with between 10% and 33% of the original townies and non-aligned wiseguys surviving.
Crushing Defeat = The town wins with more than 33% of the original townies and non-aligned wiseguys surviving.

Abilities:

Your death is part of the victory conditions for the other Dons, and will also severely limit your family’s chance of success as creating a new Don is time-consuming.

Your Made Gangsters are your active accomplices, investigating and/or attacking targets to help your family achieve success. For another Made Gangster to be created, they must qualify themselves by making sanctioned kills and must receive your permission to advance.

Any time after your family has acquired a 5^th (or more) member, you may (but do not have to) designate one Made Gangster – but not a Luca – as “Consigliare.” This player can than conduct up to 4 investigations on any night they are not participating in a kill, but zero on any night they are involved in a killing. The first night they are targeted for death after achieving Consigliare status, they have a 2 in 6 chance of avoiding death (this is a one-time only power resulting from some “gift” you have given them upon their promotion). The narration of their narrow escape may seem suspicious as it will not read the same way as would a doctor save.

You will choose some “signature” component that MUST feature in all of your family’s sanctioned killings. This may be a consistent method, a symbol or calling card, or some other distinctive characteristic – but it must be used in each killing without exception. You must notify me of this characteristic with your first nighttime PM.

Daytime:

You may vote to lynch or select as can any other player.

Nightime:

Active Actions

In combination with 2 other townies, you can form a protection group (3 required) and attempt to protect one other player. If no attack occurs, nothing happens. If the target is attacked your group will fail unless there are more than three townies as no Don can provide this form of protection. More than 3 townies can work in the same group (limit 5), though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If only 2 townies participate in a save effort and the target is attacked, that effort automatically fails. If only you (by circumstance or betrayal) attempt a save and the target is attacked, that effort fails and there is a 1 in 36 chance of you being revealed by name in that failed attempt. Your Luca cannot protect you when you are in such a group.

In combination with 4 other townies, you can form a vigilante group (5 required) and attempt to kill one other player. More than 5 townies can work in the same group (limit 7), though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If fewer than 5 townies participate in a kill effort, that effort automatically fails. If only you (by circumstance or betrayal) attempt such a kill, that effort fails and there is a 1 in 36 chance of you being revealed by name in that failed attempt. Your Luca cannot protect you when you are in such a group.

If you have no other family members, a solo Don may attempt to kill one target per night as a solo-killer. The trademark must be used.

Passive Actions

Twice per game, you may exercise a few of your many “favors” from non-playing members of Fatlington, and use these persons and their skills to temporarily camouflage your investigation status. Thus, for one night, you may choose to appear Innocent, Criminal, Guilty, or Unclear at your choice.

If you have no other family members left, you as a solo Don may conduct up to three investigations per night, receiving the same kind of results as a made gangster (Innocent, Criminal, Unclear) and a small chance to learn their role. You cannot both investigate and kill in the same night phase.

You must PM me with a note as to which kills are sanctioned by your family. An unsanctioned kill will not allow your participants to advance as quickly as will sanctioned kills.

Secret Abilities/Traits:

These are listed in your second pre-game PM and are not to be revealed or discussed during play…only used.

Regarding Investigations

1. If investigated by a Made Gangster or Detective, you will almost certainly be discovered to be “innocent.” This is true even if you kill as part of a vigilante group. You will only register as “criminal” or “guilty” if you have personally participated in a killing while operating solo. Penetration of your role is one step more difficult than it is for the other roles. So, for example, for a garden variety first investigation your chance of being discovered as the Don is 1 in 1296 rather than the usual 1 in 216.

2. If circumstances have you doing investigations, they will function as do those of a made gangster. When investigating a person, you will learn if they are “criminal” (Mades, Lucas, most Wise Guys), “Unclear” (Some Wise Guys, a few Townies) or “Innocent” (Dons, Most Townies, Detectives, Doctors, Surgeons, and the FBI Detective).

Role Changing: You man not change roles. For you, a life of mafia crime is a foregone conclusion.

I'm not sure if my Made mission of "skullduggery" applies here or not, since I became Don of a different family and ended the Cunio line, but I did get the Mafia Don mission of decisive victory with 4 or more members of the family alive, and personally surviving to become Capo di Tutti Capi.

Anyway, the wiseguy unaligned ascends to the top position, similar to Scottishranger's rise in Capo II, except Scotty had to go from townie to wiseguy to made to Don, I think. I had a better start than him, being an unaligned made with luck.

I met the Lawyer through fyremarble, whose Made and Luca were either absent or not very communicative, and she was struggling so I helped her find recruits. I left her alone for most of the game but she left herself undefended on purpose, she felt killing was the way to go... and I felt a united family would be the winner, and it would be tricky to convince the Cunio to follow fyremarble, as it would have been tricky to convince the Stracchi to follow gnarlycharlie. Either one felt like a surrender, so a new family was the obvious choice, which meant both of them had to die. And of course that also meant every other Don needed to die as well.

I got the password from fyremarble and I used it to contact DaveShack and for a time, I pretended to be a Mafia Don. Given my behind the scenes activities, I basically was a mafia Don. I did the recruiting and I orchestrated the hits and I decided who was an enemy of the families. It's only fitting that I ended up being a mafia Don, because I played the role from the beginning in deed, if not by title.

**Montmorency** · 12-04-2011, 21:09

Special Trait: Connections

You have a friend with “connections” who you once saved from a jam. Once during a night phase of the game, though not on Night #1, you can ask this friend to provide you with information on a single player. The information you get (at the beginning of the 2nd day phase following) may not be complete, but will be better than a typical detective’s first efforts AND it will be completely accurate.

Special Trait: Recruiter’s Luck

You are unusually lucky. The first time you are successfully attacked, that attack will fail and you will survive without serious harm. Be careful, while you will survive the first attack in a manner that seems lucky, you will not survive subsequent attacks – even on the same night. Once you have used your luck it is gone. This trait is automatic and cannot be “turned off.”
This is a special reward trait for your contribution and is in addition to any other trait or traits.

color=red]Special Trait: Connections

You have a friend with “connections” who you once saved from a jam. Once during a night phase of the game, though not on Night #1, you can ask this friend to provide you with information on a single player. The information you get (at the beginning of the 2nd day phase following) may not be complete, but will be better than a typical detective’s first efforts AND it will be completely accurate.

Special Trait: Sort-of-Lucky

You are “sort of” lucky. The first time you are attacked successfully, you will survive the attack. Unfortunately, you will be wounded and unable to defend yourself against any subsequent attacks on the same night – even if your normal abilities would let you do so. You will be in hospital all of the next day and subsequent night phase, which means that you cannot vote (but could still be lynched) and that you are safe for that subsequent night. You may not undertake any active actions on the night following your release either.
For example: If you are attacked on N2 and your sorta-luck saves you, you cannot vote on D3, you are safe on N3, but you cannot do an active action on N4.

Add this to the others.

Hmm...not so different, you and I.

**Choxorn** · 12-04-2011, 21:38

Special Trait: Sort-of-Lucky

You are “sort of” lucky. The first time you are attacked successfully, you will survive the attack. Unfortunately, you will be wounded and unable to defend yourself against any subsequent attacks on the same night – even if your normal abilities would let you do so. You will be in hospital all of the next day and subsequent night phase, which means that you cannot vote (but could still be lynched) and that you are safe for that subsequent night. You may not undertake any active actions on the night following your release either.
For example: If you are attacked on N2 and your sorta-luck saves you, you cannot vote on D3, you are safe on N3, but you cannot do an active action on N4.

Special Trait: Spoofer

You have always enjoyed playing natural jokes, and some of those skills let you make all sorts of things appear to be “different,” at least for a little while. You can actually cause a selected player to display the status of your choice “guilty, unclear, criminal, innocent; susceptible, possibly susceptible, probably unsusceptible, or completely unsusceptible. They will display this status to any investigator on the night you choose – even if it is the wrong result for their style of investigation. You can do nothing to camouflage roles. You may do this twice.

Maybe I would have used that ability at some point if everyone wasn't so obviously mafia...

**The Stranger** · 12-04-2011, 21:56

Originally Posted by Choxorn

Special Trait: Sort-of-Lucky

You are “sort of” lucky. The first time you are attacked successfully, you will survive the attack. Unfortunately, you will be wounded and unable to defend yourself against any subsequent attacks on the same night – even if your normal abilities would let you do so. You will be in hospital all of the next day and subsequent night phase, which means that you cannot vote (but could still be lynched) and that you are safe for that subsequent night. You may not undertake any active actions on the night following your release either.
For example: If you are attacked on N2 and your sorta-luck saves you, you cannot vote on D3, you are safe on N3, but you cannot do an active action on N4.

Special Trait: Spoofer

You have always enjoyed playing natural jokes, and some of those skills let you make all sorts of things appear to be “different,” at least for a little while. You can actually cause a selected player to display the status of your choice “guilty, unclear, criminal, innocent; susceptible, possibly susceptible, probably unsusceptible, or completely unsusceptible. They will display this status to any investigator on the night you choose – even if it is the wrong result for their style of investigation. You can do nothing to camouflage roles. You may do this twice.

Maybe I would have used that ability at some point if everyone wasn't so obviously mafia...

I used spoofer at the start of the game to get rid of Subotan. I planted a guilty on him because i knew he would be investigated and hoped it would be his downfall. after that i became rogue but the role turned out to be less great than before. i knew that before i accepted it but it was kinda lame to decline it after i tried so hard to get it.

**sturmhauke** · 12-05-2011, 01:31

My thanks to the hosts for running the show, and Pizza for bringing me here and being a formidable opponent. I enjoyed it at first, but I have to say that as I learned the true nature of the beast (backstabbing, politicking, misinformation campaigns, etc.) I wasn't having as good a time. My personal drama didn't help matters. DIY seemed like a true townie ally and had already helped with strategy, so I handed off command to him. Looking back, I don't think we ever had a chance, not even the slim chance I thought we did.

One thing has been bugging me though: Sigurd, what the

was up with your Don Cunio accusations? I mean really. I just don't get it.

**seireikhaan** · 12-05-2011, 05:56

So it's time for an honest assessment and review. I'll try to keep this relatively short. Some of my observations and thoughts, from both playing and co-hosting.

First off, once again, I'd like to thank everyone for their patience. It took us a while to get our heads wrapped around everything when we had to take over. The sheer amount of data was staggering, well over anything I'd done. Maybe a bit less so for GH, having hosted Pirate Ship at least. Simply trying to get everything organized into a comprehensible system was a huge task, to which much thanks must go to GH. Those first few phases were an arduous task of trying to double check and triple check to make sure nothing was missed or improperly allocated for, and even there were issues. In other words, it's not something I'm chomping at the bit to try again. I do like hosting, but this was simply a lot, even as co-host.

Being honest, I didn't enjoy hosting this. At all. The workload was only a small part of it. When Seamus informed us of his inability to continue hosting, we both knew the game had to go on. We both knew it was going to be a lot of work to keep everything in order. However, the revelation of just how the game was going on behind the scenes didn't please me much. This is me speaking personally here. I don't enjoy centralization in mafia. I feel like every person or small group should forge their own path to success. That's why I never informed Pizza of my role. That was why I was doing what I could to leak every bit of info I could from Pizza to GH. I was the one who leaked to GH about a third to half of his data. I was sure that we'd had everything in order to ultimately take the network down.

But that leads to what infuriated me. The shyster. As Gh said, this is nothing against Daveshack- he played the role well, did almost everything he could to attain victory. There is no fault to him for doing so. But I believe in what GH referred to as the "sanctity" of the lynch. The whole crux of mafia is the lynch. It's the central focus of the game. It's the one thing that gives the entire collective the ability to press the giant red button on someone and say "No. No more. Now you die." In more traditional games, it is literally the only way for the town to win. Rendering it moot is one of the things I vow to never do in a game I host, and I feel like that's what happened here. Pizza, you are entirely correct that you were vulnerable at many points. But I think you underestimate the crippling blow to morale that the shyster caused. The town's big red button was disabled. People gave their biggest rally to take you down, only to have a single person tell the collective "no. Not today." Even if the shyster had this as a one time ability, I can't help but feel like it dampened the motivation of people to participate in the lynch. I personally feel like the sharp drop in activity is attributable to this. But it was even more staggering than that- the shyster had the ability to stop every lynch- every single one. And then, lastly, to give the shyster connections to every single mob boss was unfathomable to me. I almost feel like it was a soft pitch role. Nobody else was given so much information, for no reason other than being the right role.

/sigh

Going to backtrack now. The centralization issue was the other one that I was concerned about. I know that there were people who, like me, agreed to do work for Pizza to get "into the network". But it seemed like a lot of people were simply content to let Pizza pick a target for them to do something, as long as it got them promoted. I understand wanting to be promoted from being a regular townsperson- being able to do things at night is more interesting. But... I dunno, I just feel like the game would have been more interesting had there not been a central organizer, meticulously planning everyone's movements to his own desires. Honestly, watching the game from afar, I was quite bored. Granted, that was while not having access to the qt's that apparently everyone but the hosts did. But still- the huge rise of mafioso, Pizza, and Daveshack created such a feeling in inevitability that I didn't look forward to the thread updates, especially during lynch time. When the original Dons finally broke out into conflict, I was neither surprised nor hopeful that it would help balance the game out. Because I figured that, at minimum, one of the other original bosses would simply absorb the large numbers of mades and wiseguys that would be left floating, or otherwise, a new Don(pizza) would take them. When Pizza finally revealed to us he wished to backstab his Don, I wasn't remotely surprised- I was only surprised that Pizza ever volunteered himself to becoming a made in the first place.

The only point I can say that I was genuinely intrigued was N19. When Dave was blocked, I surmised that there was some kind of plan to get Pizza lynched. And it was a valiant effort, if a bit belated. The rest of the game, I was disappointed with the seeming acceptance of failure that seemed to permeate it. I can understand some of the sentiment- see back on the discussion on the shyster role. But people made no effort to bring Pizza down for lynch for so long, even handing him the director's seat while he whistled a jaunty, scummy tune to everyone. And nobody made an effort to bring down Daveshack. My impression is that plenty of people were aware of him to do it, but simply didn't want to take the gamble to bring him down. I can't imagine anyone was figuring during the midgame that Pizza was going to simply follow along in a neutral holding pattern. I wondered if I was giving Pizza too much credit, but his victory proves me accurate. I thought people knew that he was ambitious- heck, he'd declared that many times. But people simply refused to do anything about the queen piece. It's just disappointing because so many decided to just go with the flow to try and win, rather than follow Pizza's example of going for the gold and winning with style. I'm sure that for Pizza, he got the kind of rush that one only gets when they pull off a long thought out strategy for ultimate victory. Which he deserves, for all the effort he put into this. I just wish that more had tried the same.

Thanks for listening to my small rant. I don't mean to offend, and I don't mean to be targeting any one person out for judgment. I just wanted to put my honest thoughts out. It's been a long experience, and I might be a bit jaded at the moment, and I might feel better about the game in a while. Not sure. Anyways, peace out, y'all.

I hope to see people stick around and try other, different games. Even if I wasn't thrilled with how this game went, it's undeniable that it was good to see plenty of new faces around.

**GeneralHankerchief** · 12-05-2011, 06:17

Originally Posted by issaikhaan

But that leads to what infuriated me. The shyster. As Gh said, this is nothing against Daveshack- he played the role well, did almost everything he could to attain victory. There is no fault to him for doing so. But I believe in what GH referred to as the "sanctity" of the lynch. The whole crux of mafia is the lynch. It's the central focus of the game. It's the one thing that gives the entire collective the ability to press the giant red button on someone and say "No. No more. Now you die." In more traditional games, it is literally the only way for the town to win. Rendering it moot is one of the things I vow to never do in a game I host, and I feel like that's what happened here. Pizza, you are entirely correct that you were vulnerable at many points. But I think you underestimate the crippling blow to morale that the shyster caused. The town's big red button was disabled. People gave their biggest rally to take you down, only to have a single person tell the collective "no. Not today." Even if the shyster had this as a one time ability, I can't help but feel like it dampened the motivation of people to participate in the lynch. I personally feel like the sharp drop in activity is attributable to this. But it was even more staggering than that- the shyster had the ability to stop every lynch- every single one. And then, lastly, to give the shyster connections to every single mob boss was unfathomable to me. I almost feel like it was a soft pitch role. Nobody else was given so much information, for no reason other than being the right role.

I'd like to elaborate on this point a bit. Again, this is nothing against the player, just the role.

Upon the revelation that ATPG had survived the lynch even with a clear majority of votes, it was like all of the air had just been let out of a very large balloon. TinCow and I were having heated arguments back and forth over PM over the exact nature of ATPG's survival, wondering whether it was sort of some innate protection or an outside role. We eventually deduced that it was an outside role that saved him, but I remember the conversation being something along the lines of "We'll just go after Pizza again the next day, there's no way the role can save the same person two days in a row. It's too overpowered." Talking separately to khaan, we came to the same conclusion. We were angry. We were demoralized. The lynch failed. The lynch is never supposed to fail.

Speaking strictly for myself now, I was able to keep it together and recover after a little bit, putting together a rough plan for the next phase. But the entire time, the fear and the uncertainty was gnawing away at me. The sacred line had been crossed. Because of that, everything was thrown into doubt. Then khaan and I had to step in and cohost, and of course any further coordination efforts stopped dead.

If you were on the opposing side during/after the first Shyster save, I don't think you can ever possibly understand how much of an effect it had on us. Nothing was certain anymore. Somehow there were still enough votes on ATPG on D8 (the first day phase after we had taken over) to get him tied for the lynch, and Dave stepped in again, and that was it. Pizza's aura of invincibility was fully operational. The game was lost at that point. The rest of it was just choreography.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-05-2011, 07:22

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Originally Posted by issaikhaan

So it's time for an honest assessment and review. I'll try to keep this relatively short. Some of my observations and thoughts, from both playing and co-hosting.

First off, once again, I'd like to thank everyone for their patience. It took us a while to get our heads wrapped around everything when we had to take over. The sheer amount of data was staggering, well over anything I'd done. Maybe a bit less so for GH, having hosted Pirate Ship at least. Simply trying to get everything organized into a comprehensible system was a huge task, to which much thanks must go to GH. Those first few phases were an arduous task of trying to double check and triple check to make sure nothing was missed or improperly allocated for, and even there were issues. In other words, it's not something I'm chomping at the bit to try again. I do like hosting, but this was simply a lot, even as co-host.

Being honest, I didn't enjoy hosting this. At all. The workload was only a small part of it. When Seamus informed us of his inability to continue hosting, we both knew the game had to go on. We both knew it was going to be a lot of work to keep everything in order. However, the revelation of just how the game was going on behind the scenes didn't please me much. This is me speaking personally here. I don't enjoy centralization in mafia. I feel like every person or small group should forge their own path to success. That's why I never informed Pizza of my role. That was why I was doing what I could to leak every bit of info I could from Pizza to GH. I was the one who leaked to GH about a third to half of his data. I was sure that we'd had everything in order to ultimately take the network down.

But that leads to what infuriated me. The shyster. As Gh said, this is nothing against Daveshack- he played the role well, did almost everything he could to attain victory. There is no fault to him for doing so. But I believe in what GH referred to as the "sanctity" of the lynch. The whole crux of mafia is the lynch. It's the central focus of the game. It's the one thing that gives the entire collective the ability to press the giant red button on someone and say "No. No more. Now you die." In more traditional games, it is literally the only way for the town to win. Rendering it moot is one of the things I vow to never do in a game I host, and I feel like that's what happened here.

^Completely understandable.

Pizza, you are entirely correct that you were vulnerable at many points. But I think you underestimate the crippling blow to morale that the shyster caused.

Not entirely true, I was counting on it. Almost everything I did after I was revealed was for the purposes of demoralizing the town side to the point where investigators wouldn't even bother investigating... townies wouldn't bother voting... nobody that was incorruptible would feel like doing anything, and only the townies that could go mafia would bother doing anything.

We were still incredibly outnumbered and I didn't want people voting to pick off allied gangsters. I wanted their efforts to be focused solely on me, so that when their efforts against me failed, their will to fight would be shaken.

I did everything I could to spare every single gangster from the lynch until landlubber's team turned against me. Everyone, including prospective gangsters who were townies, like Sigurd. I threw my body in front of the lynch and did everything I could to stop every gangster from death. The lawyer was covering me but I was doing whatever I could to spare everyone else.

I tried to see to it that no Made gangster died on my watch unless they were specifically my enemy.

The town's big red button was disabled.

If they were using it on me, yes. But they could have used it on any gangster. Besides, they would never ever win this game by the lynch alone. It would take them 30 phases. That much is pretty factual.

They needed to be doing vigilante kills, and everyone who was doing vigilante kills was going mafia.

Town lost because it wanted to not be townie anymore, not because of the shyster. Once town decided it was mafia, town lost the game. I understand how massive a blow the shyster was, but I think you're underestimating how massive a blow having so many corruptible townies was. Before I was exposed, and before the mafia were making much progress, I spoke to people and they wanted to be mafia. That's why I was able to take such risks, they weren't very risky at all. The only thing going on was the pretense that people were good townies still, so people didn't want to be openly scummy.

But behind the scenes, they were quietly scummy. Town really ceased to be when it decided to go bad, en masse, and I personally assisted in convincing over half of those folks to turn their backs on the town.

People gave their biggest rally to take you down, only to have a single person tell the collective "no. Not today." Even if the shyster had this as a one time ability, I can't help but feel like it dampened the motivation of people to participate in the lynch. I personally feel like the sharp drop in activity is attributable to this.

I concur with this assessment. Town's morale suffered greatly when the shyster kept me alive not once, but twice in a row, and I did everything I could to make sure I would be lynched a second time in a row. If they had lynched another gangster instead, or the shyster itself, they would have still been in the game. I wanted to take them out of the game as fast as possible, and make everyone believe town was finished, and it was time to go mafia.

Then, they'd likely turn to me or one of my allies to become mafia. Yes I understand exactly what the shyster did, and its presence in Capo is questionable to say the least. But it was there and almost no one else was bothering to use it, and I was exactly the wrong person to have that kind of protection. You combine that with the mafia gaining control of the vote and making me Director, and I'm not at all surprised with the reaction of the resistance to give up or feel kicked in the stomach. That was a horrible combination for the town.

But it was even more staggering than that- the shyster had the ability to stop every lynch- every single one. And then, lastly, to give the shyster connections to every single mob boss was unfathomable to me. I almost feel like it was a soft pitch role. Nobody else was given so much information, for no reason other than being the right role.

Oh yes. I can see how Seamus originally intended the role, and it would make sense.

Imagine a role that could guess which of 5 Dons was going to be lynched that day, and tried to spare one of them. Guess correctly, and deal a serious blow to town morale and keep one of the starting Dons alive, the starting Dons who have a rough go of it.

Sure, in the hands of just the mafia Dons, they'd fight over his power and it would be somewhat balanced.

The FATAL flaw was allowing the shyster to spare any player from the lynch. Not just the Dons, but anyone.... even a wiseguy, unaligned to the mob.

How could I afford such a powerful lawyer as some two-bit goon? I couldn't. That kind of power shouldn't have been possible for me.

Going to backtrack now. The centralization issue was the other one that I was concerned about. I know that there were people who, like me, agreed to do work for Pizza to get "into the network". But it seemed like a lot of people were simply content to let Pizza pick a target for them to do something, as long as it got them promoted. I understand wanting to be promoted from being a regular townsperson- being able to do things at night is more interesting. But... I dunno, I just feel like the game would have been more interesting had there not been a central organizer, meticulously planning everyone's movements to his own desires. Honestly, watching the game from afar, I was quite bored. Granted, that was while not having access to the qt's that apparently everyone but the hosts did.

No, while there was a lot of behind the scenes drama, there was a lull in the action around the middle which made me feel like having everything under my control was overkill.

I was also exhausted from all the "meticulous planning" and needed a break. I told everyone, town and mafia, to do their own thing and for a time, many rounds, they were free from me. But everything still went the same. Once the snowball was rolling it just kept getting bigger and more out of control. It didn't need me anymore, it was already gargantuan.

When there was so little resistance to what I was doing, I admit I got a little depressed as well. If people had rallied together, infiltrated my network, asked the right questions of the right people, and just found out who the shyster was and tried to kill him....

The guy I left intentionally defenseless most of the latter half because it was the only way the game even seemed fair to me...

We could have had a big war and I could have died and all hell would have broken loose. Instead some people got too defeatist and packed up. Others lacked necessary allies to bring us down. A big united faction versus a lot of divided factions who were demoralized was an easy contest at times.

The challenge was surviving the mafia versus mafia wars, where no one's allegiance was set in stone. The game got a lot more interesting to me then. Before that it was just hacking apart a disenchanted town who wasn't being protected very well by all those doctors I helped them create. I kept picking folks that would seem to have been a low priority for protection, if I were still running the town. So I played as if I was still running the town and I picked whoever I wouldn't have protected as my targets.

But still- the huge rise of mafioso, Pizza, and Daveshack created such a feeling in inevitability that I didn't look forward to the thread updates, especially during lynch time. When the original Dons finally broke out into conflict, I was neither surprised nor hopeful that it would help balance the game out. Because I figured that, at minimum, one of the other original bosses would simply absorb the large numbers of mades and wiseguys that would be left floating, or otherwise, a new Don(pizza) would take them. When Pizza finally revealed to us he wished to backstab his Don, I wasn't remotely surprised- I was only surprised that Pizza ever volunteered himself to becoming a made in the first place.

My dream was finding some worthy yet oft-overlooked player, building them up to made, and letting them go to town on the town.... whichever one was the most clever and ruthless would be the one I'd support as Capo, and I would have followed them as their Made.

Things didn't go as I planned, and once again in a power vacuum, around round 17 I decided it was time to fill the vacuum again and challenge whoever else tried to become king of the mountain. Thankfully there were some actually trying for the prize or the ending would have been 1000 times lamer.

The only point I can say that I was genuinely intrigued was N19. When Dave was blocked, I surmised that there was some kind of plan to get Pizza lynched. And it was a valiant effort, if a bit belated. The rest of the game, I was disappointed with the seeming acceptance of failure that seemed to permeate it. I can understand some of the sentiment- see back on the discussion on the shyster role. But people made no effort to bring Pizza down for lynch for so long, even handing him the director's seat while he whistled a jaunty, scummy tune to everyone. And nobody made an effort to bring down Daveshack.

That puzzled me to no end.

In the game, during the game, when the victory was still on the line, I told people who DaveShack was. As in everyone still alive. I posted it in-thread.

I leaked my own notes to every Don, and leaked my notes to half the scums in the game.... he was a known quantity and I was indeed leaving him undefended, on purpose, because I knew that even though it wasn't completely unfair for a role like his to exist, me being able to protect both him and myself for certain every round didn't seem particularly like I was risking much and it would have made the game boring for me.

I decided to only protect him when I thought he would be attacked, like at the end after I said I left him undefended for rounds and rounds and rounds. Maybe someone would try something then, nobody did.

The Insurrection to bring down Askthepizzaguy would have worked if it was focused on DaveShack and everyone showed up. And it should have happened like 5-8 rounds before that. After Dave died, I would have been completely boned.

I was waiting for that to happen, although I wasn't playing for a loss, I was playing in a way that intentionally exposed key weaknesses that nobody even tried to hit until it was basically too late.

Very odd.

My impression is that plenty of people were aware of him to do it, but simply didn't want to take the gamble to bring him down.

Allied mafia I can understand;

Why didn't the Barzini try to reveal DaveShack?

Why didn't the Pentangeli try to reveal DaveShack?

Why didn't the Corleone try to destroy DaveShack?

Why didn't the townies even try once to vig-kill him or lynch him once they knew who he was? Town knew I had enemies, enemies which would leap at the chance to remove my lawyer and therefore, me.

Didn't take the shot. No idea why not.

I couldn't have broken their morale that much, some folks were still fighting.

Listen, the town could have gotten one of their rogue detectives and paired them up with a like-minded Made gangster and did a sanctioned hit on DaveShack. They could have formed a vig squad until the very late game. Why didn't anyone try to kill Dave?

I can't imagine anyone was figuring during the midgame that Pizza was going to simply follow along in a neutral holding pattern. I wondered if I was giving Pizza too much credit, but his victory proves me accurate. I thought people knew that he was ambitious- heck, he'd declared that many times. But people simply refused to do anything about the queen piece. It's just disappointing because so many decided to just go with the flow to try and win, rather than follow Pizza's example of going for the gold and winning with style. I'm sure that for Pizza, he got the kind of rush that one only gets when they pull off a long thought out strategy for ultimate victory. Which he deserves, for all the effort he put into this. I just wish that more had tried the same.

I felt like Sasaki/Scottishranger and the Pentangeli gave it a good effort, but they were overwhelmed; they struck too early and without enough support, so they were easy pickings.

They needed more gangsters, doctors, something.

The Corleones gave a very brave effort but I think I schmoozed them into being pacified, even if their intentions were usually hostile toward me (see their QTs)

Chaotix was amazing, always trying to win it without resorting to me.

Krill and some others in the Stracchi/Cunio would have gone independent if I weren't allied to them. They stuck with me because I promised I'd go independent with them and form a final, separate family that included them. Better chance of winning that way, than doing it divided.

I did kill off a whole lot of folks I felt would try to go for the gold for themselves, but not all. I felt the Corleone people were very likely to break away and try to win it for themselves... or at least, without me.

But I feel what you're saying. I kept looking for the super ambitious rival, and I found that all my super ambitious rivals were either with much smaller families or they were dead, or feuding with each other.

I did feel like some folks weren't putting into it what I was, but then again it might have been the demoralizing effects of not only the size and scope of the alliance I threw together, but also the doctor protection, lawyer protection, and eventually the Directorship. That had to keep some folks down.

That said, I didn't think anything I did would demoralize folks like Chaotix, Sasaki, Crazed Rabbit, etc, because me doing my thing usually just makes them see red and try to bring me down even harder. I didn't even go for killing those guys until they had either attacked the Stracchi/Cunio or tried to undermine me personally. I wanted desperately to see what they would do in this situation.

They all fought but they had a lack of people willing to fight with them. In a game this size, that's surprising. These folks are very dangerous and they could have beaten me easily with some supporters.

Thanks for listening to my small rant. I don't mean to offend, and I don't mean to be targeting any one person out for judgment. I just wanted to put my honest thoughts out. It's been a long experience, and I might be a bit jaded at the moment, and I might feel better about the game in a while. Not sure. Anyways, peace out, y'all.

I hope to see people stick around and try other, different games. Even if I wasn't thrilled with how this game went, it's undeniable that it was good to see plenty of new faces around.

I appreciate your perspectives, yours and GH's. I share a lot of your concerns. Sometimes things felt too cheap and too overpowered.

I got a bit disenchanted with the game at times.

I'll get into my own personal lamentations soon, because believe it or not, there was a lot of this game that I didn't find fun and there were many times I wanted to just resign. Some of it was my fault, some of it was circumstance, and some of it was how others behave around me and toward me.

Don't get me wrong, I still found ways to have fun and in particular, I enjoyed the character I played and I enjoyed throwing everything I could at the town and any rival mafiosi I could, as openly as possible, guffawing in-character all the way. I also enjoyed pulling off the win, but there were parts of the game that felt forced, hollow, and uninteresting.

That said, I am also going to argue that this game was not at all imbalanced and defend Seamus' game and his vision of the game. While the game itself was different perhaps than his vision of it, what it was, was balanced. It became unbalanced due to many factors which I want to address. I'll probably address that stuff with my next post.

There was a lot of room for fairness and fun in this game and it was broken not by design, and not by any one role or one player either. That will be my thesis for Capo IV. I'll explain why I think so and show why it can be argued that I'm correct on that. Permit me to demonstrate.

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