International board, or something, and the mods, and ciao

[Shibumi]

First of all, I have recieved some PMs, cheers guys!

Wow.

I had no idea my post here would stirr up such a hornets nest!

To a lot of you, I say thank you :)

My history has been questioned - yes indeed, I have once before got 3 warnings points over my time here. With that said, I have made a whole lot of posts that did not get warning points, I might stretch it as far as saying I am more than confident in the fact that my posts at large are not deemed worthy of a warning.

However, that is not the main point, is it?

Was my initial joke in bad taste? YES! Yes yes yes. YES.

Did I two posts down make it utterly clear it was a joke, well, YES! Yes yes yes. YES.

Read that again from my perspective: "me as a general US basher says I dont care, but of course, I do, hence I point out this is a joke"

3000 lives lost is 3000 lives lost. It is bound to do what vacuums does. Is it worse than the other tragedies happening on a daily basis, specially ten years after, well, the jury is still out on that one.

That is, however, not my point. I said it was a jest, two posts down I once AGAIN made it clear it was a jest.

Are we supposed to be more sensitive to 3000ish Americans who died, not allowed to jest about it, compared to the thousands of kids who die a day cause of starvation? Are those 3000ish americans who died ten years ago somehow deserving more respect than, say, the gay rights or the struggle of the third world? If so, educate me as to why this would be on an international board.

From the way I see it, this board only allows allowed "different oppinions". We are utterly free to have different oppinions, as long as we adhere to what is ok to be different. To use "fag" as a derogatory term is quite ok eventhough it alienates 1/30th of the human population or so. But don't you dare jest with a fraction of the numbers of people killed by US carpet bombings over Afghanistan, or the people who have died in the war in Iraq because of their Weapon of Mass Destruction because these americans were INNOCENT.

Again, we have some things we can jest about, and some things we can not. This on a "international board".




Then we have the other thing, the way the mods are actually handling this.

"shoo fly" <- Obviously not demeaning. It is written by a mod - gettit? He means that as a jest, we are all sure, and it should be obvious to the reader.

The mod answering my PMs in the way he did - it is BQ, he would not do anything wrong. And if you see his answer to me as derogatory you obviously have a reading disorder.

And about Louis, we all know he mean well, far be it from him to have a malicious thought behind anything he writes. Because he is, you know, perfect, and thus whatever he writes could not possibly be taken as something negative except by someone clearly not meant to be on this board.

PJ, thanks for that post, but no, I could not possibly be back. The term set for me to get back is that I repent - and do I really seem eager to? If not, I am banned for life.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I thought the problem was the mods had put out a little green notice they were in a serious mood (tm) not appreciative of bad jokes for the day and you decided you had to go ring the doorbell regardless. It's like you're one of those people who just walk into these things.

For a comparison our national statistics bureau/agency (charged with tallying all sorts of important and less important stats for the Netherlands) decided that they'd do a housing poll. So they'd cast ballots or whatever and picked me. So they sent me a letter. I read it, I didn't have time/energy/mood for filling in some online questions form which is invariably written by someone who should for the betterment of the Internet be made to live somewhere without Internet or computers and strictly forbidden to ever search or acquire or use any form or semblance of same. So I threw away the letter.

They didn't get the hint the first time, they sent me another one. I threw that one away as well.

They didn't get that one either. So they sent a third. In which they informed me that they might attempt to contact me by phone or in person instead because it was ever so important that they waste my time and patience again. They've made it on my ignore list which shows how remarkably effective they were at annoying me since (a) I don't have ignore lists on the Internet, and (b) RL doesn't even have ignore lists built in yet to begin with.

[Shibumi]

I thought the problem was the mods had put out a little green notice they were in a serious mood (tm) not appreciative of bad jokes for the day and you decided you had to go ring the doorbell regardless. It's like you're one of those people who just walk into these things.

For a comparison our national statistics bureau/agency (charged with tallying all sorts of important and less important stats for the Netherlands) decided that they'd do a housing poll. So they'd cast ballots or whatever and picked me. So they sent me a letter. I read it, I didn't have time/energy/mood for filling in some online questions form which is invariably written by someone who should for the betterment of the Internet be made to live somewhere without Internet or computers and strictly forbidden to ever search or acquire or use any form or semblance of same. So I threw away the letter.

They didn't get the hint the first time, they sent me another one. I threw that one away as well.

They didn't get that one either. So they sent a third. In which they informed me that they might attempt to contact me by phone or in person instead because it was ever so important that they waste my time and patience again. They've made it on my ignore list which shows how remarkably effective they were at annoying me since (a) I don't have ignore lists on the Internet, and (b) RL doesn't even have ignore lists built in yet to begin with.

I am quite confident in saying that your National Statistics Bureau does not have a link, from their main forum page, to skip to the last post in the last forum topic.

If the mods does indeed want to mark some threads as under special rules, not that I can understand why they would, they might want to make it clear that posters does have to scroll back and read everything leading up to that post, and that the posters can NOT just reply to that post.

This all just seem absolutely.. Nevermind.

[a completely inoffensive name]

The only people who probably have more infraction points and warning than me are Strike and Meth. "Bad history" is such a cop out. I flooded the EB forums with Meth 4 different times with mundane back and forth conversations in 15 threads at the same time.

The ban was over the top because no one liked his opinion and no one likes him.

You all talk as if you are very hard on each other behind closed doors, give me a break guys. It's basic psychology. You are more lenient toward those you know and respect than some "stranger" in the group. You justify (subconsciously) the different lines that you draw because you "know" the motives of those you like and you don't know the motives of those you don't like.

Louis showed his sleezy Frenchman side which is disappointing, because he is much more tolerable when he is trying to be Tocqueville. He should have been punished but wasn't and that hasn't gone answered. But that's because everyone knows Louis and likes him so whatever right?

I don't mind the fact that you long timers all treat each other a bit nicer than others when the time comes to lay the hammer down, but don't try to deny it with clever jokes. Yeah, Strike has a lot of infractions but for the most part his insults are blunt and straight to the point and doesn't have a shred of fancying up to them. No offense Strike, you are my boy and I am not dissing you I am just saying that your insults are the kind that can't be ignored.

It isn't an "in-crowd" it is just a tight network of friends who have been on here a long time and because everyone here is human, they naturally differentiate how they treat those in their sphere of friendship and those that are not.

Most of the time, it isn't bad. But when this **** comes up: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?137437-Women-know-your-limits

And everyone decides to just roll with it, as if it was some well crafted, thought provoking question that needed an answer? No lock? No infraction? Well Frags has been a mainstay of the org community since '03 so everyone knows it's just Frag being Frag right?

[Catiline]

You all talk as if you are very hard on each other behind closed doors, give me a break guys.

Ha!

For once I think I can genuinely speak for all of us in rags when I say 'If only you knew'.

[PanzerJaeger]

PJ, thanks for that post, but no, I could not possibly be back. The term set for me to get back is that I repent - and do I really seem eager to? If not, I am banned for life.

It seems to me that the post itself was the problem, not the opinion behind it. Surely a PM that says essentially the same thing that you've already stated about the post in this thread would go a long way... from my experience the mods only want to have confidence that you understand why the posted crossed the line and that you will make an effort to use more discretion in the future. They don't want to muzzle you!

In any event, it would be a shame to lose your perspective, as much as I disagree with it.

Most of the time, it isn't bad. But when this **** comes up: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?137437-Women-know-your-limits


And everyone decides to just roll with it, as if it was some well crafted, thought provoking question that needed an answer? No lock? No infraction? Well Frags has been a mainstay of the org community since '03 so everyone knows it's just Frag being Frag right?

Why would he get an infraction or a lock? Far more controversial subjects have been discussed in the backroom than whether women are capable of being funny. Members are allowed to hold, share, and discuss politically insensitive/incorrect opinions in the backroom as long as they maintain a baseline level of decorum. It's all laid out pretty clearly in a sticky in the backroom, which highlights another important point.

Some members seem to be surprised and/or upset at the fact that some are given more leeway than others in the eyes of the moderators. Well, at least in the backroom, both that fact and the rationale behind it are spelled out pretty clearly.

Trolling

Trolling is the art of provoking angry reactions. Some trolls are subtle, others show all the delicacy of an air-raid on an orphanage. This is an area of engagement that stretches the moderators, as one person's opinion may well look like a troll to their opponent. We tend to look at the poster and their track record, and punish accordingly. Yes, life is unfair. Your best remedy is not to get a reputation as a troll.

There it is: member inequity - stated plainly in the rules. There's no conspiracy, no secret in-crowd, and no subconscious favoritism - there is only your own reputation. If you are a relatively new member who has tangled with the mods repeatedly without contributing much to the forum, then yes, you are going to be given less leeway than a member like Louis, who, at this point, has racked up years of worthwhile contributions. And if you're an old member with years of mod battles under your belt, your posts are going to be scrutinized more closely than those with no such history.

People need to take five minutes to read through the rules.

[Drunk Clown]

There it is: member inequity - stated plainly in the rules. There's no conspiracy, no secret in-crowd, and no subconscious favoritism - there is only your own reputation. If you are a relatively new member who has tangled with the mods repeatedly without contributing much to the forum, then yes, you are going to be given less leeway than a member like Louis, who, at this point, has racked up years of worthwhile contributions. And if you're an old member with years of mod battles under your belt, your posts are going to be scrutinized more closely than those with no such history.

People need to take five minutes to read through the rules.

That is when trolling is involved, that isn't always the situation.

If your rules said: "Hi, most of our moderators don't take it lightly when you don't agree with us so you better be careful"
And: "We moderators and our favorites are above the rules"

If that was the case, then I would say: "Congratulations, you are sticking to the rules".

And Tellos don't say it isn't an issue, since it is. Of course it's not an issue for you, you are not affected.
Your comparison with mummy and her children isn't that adequate. If it happens over and over again then it gets annoying. At first, as I noticed it since the beginning I joined this forum, I let it be. I thought: "these things happen" just like your mummy comparison. But you can only take so much, at a certain point you are fed up with it. As I am now.

Still noticing there's no answer for my previous question. I still hope you get to a point where you are able to answer.
I also see Louis' post hasn't been edited yet, which I find strange. You say it's PG 13 right? So do it for those children you want to "protect".

[Tellos Athenaios]

And Tellos don't say it isn't an issue, since it is. Of course it's not an issue for you, you are not affected.
Your comparison with mummy and her children isn't that adequate. If it happens over and over again then it gets annoying. At first, as I noticed it since the beginning I joined this forum, I let it be. I thought: "these things happen" just like your mummy comparison. But you can only take so much, at a certain point you are fed up with it. As I am now.

Still noticing there's no answer for my previous question. I still hope you get to a point where you are able to answer.
I also see Louis' post hasn't been edited yet, which I find strange. You say it's PG 13 right? So do it for those children you want to "protect".

Ho hum. Backroom is run by different types of moderators than the Frontroom is. In the Frontroom they let pass quite a bit except that they move topics not appropriate to the forum. In the Backroom they are a lot more assertive and will slap you with a warning if only you quote some inappropriate language by a fellow poster (well at least that's what happens if you're me quoting PanzerJaeger...).

Now as to the real question: if you feel Louis is in need of some moderator love, you can always report the offending post. That puts stuff on the agenda instead of complaining about it now. Never ascribe to malice and all that. It also helps to ensure that everyone does get treated equally. Even if you are an old timer can appreciate some self-referential joke about members and know that those members will not feel offended about it, doesn't mean others won't. So yeah if it's all so bad you can whack that report button and remind moderators of why and how Louis is a serial forum offender or some such.

Me I'm of the opinion that no system is perfect and by and large we have a relatively well behaved crowd on the forum that by and large manages to keep things pleasant. Of course the new guys are going to be scrutinized a bit more. That's no different from communities in RL. Yes it is entirely unfair when people tend to dismiss the old timer pulling a stunt as that crazy Frenchman who occasionally says silly things like that, he doesn't mean anything by it just can't seem to help it. OTOH he doesn't do it nearly often enough for it to be noticeable by anyone but the hapless new guy who was the unfortunate audience for his joke.

Again, suggest that you take it up with the moderators directly through the report button if it bothers you. Instead of waiting for them to not read the thread (quite possibly they think oh, no not another girl's thread, I've seen enough of those...) and not do anything, say.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Why would he get an infraction or a lock? Far more controversial subjects have been discussed in the backroom than whether women are capable of being funny. Members are allowed to hold, share, and discuss politically insensitive/incorrect opinions in the backroom as long as they maintain a baseline level of decorum. It's all laid out pretty clearly in a sticky in the backroom, which highlights another important point.

It was blatantly disrespectful, the only thing keeping it from being in 4chan territory is the fact he didn't say, "When will they get back in the kitchen, amiright?". It doesn't matter what his track record is if it was a purposeful attempt at pissing people off. He did the same thing with the eugenics thread, which finally got closed after someone came to their senses about how the OP presented the topic. He then made a second eugenics thread that was baiting again and that got closed. Talk about a track record....

You know, the one thing about the women thread I noticed is that I can't recall a single female posting in it. I wonder if someone actually called out how terrible that thread was, someone would have done something.

There it is: member inequity - stated plainly in the rules. There's no conspiracy, no secret in-crowd, and no subconscious favoritism - there is only your own reputation. If you are a relatively new member who has tangled with the mods repeatedly without contributing much to the forum, then yes, you are going to be given less leeway than a member like Louis, who, at this point, has racked up years of worthwhile contributions. And if you're an old member with years of mod battles under your belt, your posts are going to be scrutinized more closely than those with no such history.

This is stupid and is favoritism enforced within the rules. I contributed nothing to this org for 2 years before making some fun threads I wanted to read that others enjoyed. It was great that the mods took notice of that, but the opposite has to be noticed as well. When someone who has been around for a while starts to dick around, you gotta place the hammer down. Otherwise it is favoritism. Praise where praise is deserved and punish where punishment is deserved. Nothing more, nothing less. Louis can call people fags jokingly in a PM.

[InsaneApache]

It was blatantly disrespectful, the only thing keeping it from being in 4chan territory is the fact he didn't say, "When will they get back in the kitchen, amiright?". It doesn't matter what his track record is if it was a purposeful attempt at pissing people off. He did the same thing with the eugenics thread, which finally got closed after someone came to their senses about how the OP presented the topic. He then made a second eugenics thread that was baiting again and that got closed. Talk about a track record....

You know, the one thing about the women thread I noticed is that I can't recall a single female posting in it. I wonder if someone actually called out how terrible that thread was, someone would have done something.


This is stupid and is favoritism enforced within the rules. I contributed nothing to this org for 2 years before making some fun threads I wanted to read that others enjoyed. It was great that the mods took notice of that, but the opposite has to be noticed as well. When someone who has been around for a while starts to dick around, you gotta place the hammer down. Otherwise it is favoritism. Praise where praise is deserved and punish where punishment is deserved. Nothing more, nothing less. Louis can call people fags jokingly in a PM.

The Backroom is all about controversial topics. Otherwise it would be called the Frontroom. It's not the topics, it's the posts in that thread. (all within the rules of the forum, after all we are guest in his house) There are plenty of members on here who are over 13 you know.