Proof of what a national ID service is good for.

[Ronin]

George Wright, Fugitive Behind 1972 Airplane Hijacking, Caught In Portugal

NEWARK, N.J. — A 1970s militant who escaped from a murder sentence in New Jersey and carried out one of the most brazen hijackings in U.S. history was captured in Portugal after more than 40 years as a fugitive, authorities said Tuesday. After decades of stagnancy, there was a sudden break in the case when police matched his fingerprint to a resident ID card.

They looked at reports from the 1970s, interviewed Wright's victims and the pilots of the plane he hijacked. They had age-enhanced sketches made and tried to track down any communications he may have made with family in the U.S.

The address in Portugal was one of several on a list of places they wanted to check out. But Schroeder said there was nothing about it that made it seem especially promising. "It was another box to get checked, so to speak," he said.

That changed last week, when details started falling into place with the help of authorities there.

"They have a national ID registry," Schroeder said. "They pulled that. That confirmed his print matched the prints with the DOC. The sketch matched the picture on his ID card."

By the weekend, U.S. authorities were on a plane to Portugal. And Monday, Portuguese police staking out his home found him.

the eeeeeevil (by mainstream US posture) national ID registry in Portugal catches an American criminal for deportation.......the irony is tasty.

[Furunculus]

evil by british standards too, glad a murderer was caught but the price is not worth it IMO, and i'd never advocate it for britain.

[Louis VI the Fat]

See, now this is why OBL didn't hide in Portugal.

[Ronin]

what price exactly? I always hear Americans and Brits speak of this supposed price but I am not aware of any.

I am supposing you mean a price in terms of restrictions to your liberty...or do you mean actual monetary expenses??

[Louis VI the Fat]

evil by british standards too, glad a murderer was caught but the price is not worth it IMO, and i'd never advocate it for britain.

He's now 68 years old. I say the guy simply decided to live like a prince in the Portugal sun for forty years, only to retire to the free healthcare of the American prsion system.

[InsaneApache]

what price exactly? I always hear Americans and Brits speak of this supposed price but I am not aware of any.

I am supposing you mean a price in terms of restrictions to your liberty...or do you mean actual monetary expenses??

It's a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law thing.

[Fragony]

what price exactly? I always hear Americans and Brits speak of this supposed price but I am not aware of any.

I am supposing you mean a price in terms of restrictions to your liberty...or do you mean actual monetary expenses??

Very easy for the government to frame you if they have your fingerprints and DNA. They aren't getting mine I don't trust the police. Nor do I trust judges. I don't trust anything government, you can't

[Beskar]

what price exactly? I always hear Americans and Brits speak of this supposed price but I am not aware of any.

I am supposing you mean a price in terms of restrictions to your liberty...or do you mean actual monetary expenses??

I think the £50 required for the card was what put people off the most. End of the day, lots of people agree and consent because they feel it will help them stop criminals opposed to turning into a corrupt-police state.

[Slyspy]

I'm happy to carry papers which prove I'm qualified to drive a motor vehicle. I'm happy to carry papers which enable me to travel internationally. I'm not happy to carry papers simply to walk down the street.

[InsaneApache]

I'm happy to carry papers which prove I'm qualified to drive a motor vehicle. I'm happy to carry papers which enable me to travel internationally. I'm not happy to carry papers simply to walk down the street.

Indeed.

[Beskar]

But don't we have that already?

I thought the National ID card simply merged several different documents into one format. So instead of possessing a passport, national insurance number, etc, they were simply inbuilt on the same ID card with biometric data so you can easily prove who you are.

[Ronin]

Very easy for the government to frame you if they have your fingerprints and DNA. They aren't getting mine I don't trust the police. Nor do I trust judges. I don't trust anything government, you can't

Calm down Jason Bourne :P
and btw...my government doesn´t have my DNA....that have 1 picture and the fingerprint of my right index finger...that's it.

I think the £50 required for the card was what put people off the most. End of the day, lots of people agree and consent because they feel it will help them stop criminals opposed to turning into a corrupt-police state.

It's way cheaper than that over here....that price does sound steep for something that is mandatory

I'm happy to carry papers which prove I'm qualified to drive a motor vehicle. I'm happy to carry papers which enable me to travel internationally. I'm not happy to carry papers simply to walk down the street.

It just seems natural to me that if you are a citizen of a country, then the government issues you a document identifying you as such.....
if they don´t then what is a valid form of identification if you don´t drive a car or don´t want to travel internationally? You simply don´t have a legal id? doesn´t that raise all sort of problems?

And btw, I am 29 years old and live in the biggest town in my country, we have (cue ominous music) a national identity card.
Total number of times I was required to show ID just for walking down the street -> 0 I´m feeling I can live with that.

[Furunculus]

I think the £50 required for the card was what put people off the most. End of the day, lots of people agree and consent because they feel it will help them stop criminals opposed to turning into a corrupt-police state.

lol, sorry, who were those "lots" of British people who agree and consent to use compulsory ID cards?

i ask because i am having trouble identifying them................

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07...ard_astroturf/

A cackling Phil Booth, No2ID National Coordinator, writes to tell us that six months after he first pestered the Identity & Passport Service about its quotes from ID card-toting happy campers in its publicity material, it has confessed - um yes, all but one of those quoted worked for the government.

money was never a terribly significant reason to object to ID cards, people felt it was no business of the government to enforce the carrying of ID's, i.e it wasn't terribly British.

End of.

[Furunculus]

It just seems natural to me that if you are a citizen of a country, then the government issues you a document identifying you as such.....
if they don´t then what is a valid form of identification if you don´t drive a car or don´t want to travel internationally? You simply don´t have a legal id? doesn´t that raise all sort of problems?

And btw, I am 29 years old and live in the biggest town in my country, we have (cue ominous music) a national identity card.
Total number of times I was required to show ID just for walking down the street -> 0 I´m feeling I can live with that.

i know Andres has disagreed with me on this, but i remain unconvinced by his argument, and remain convinced that it is fundamentally a Common Law thing:

English Common Law with its roots in the concept of Natural Law has led to a presumption of negative liberty; I am free to do anything that which is not specifically proscribed by the law. Rights are defined as being against interference by the sovereign in the liberty of individual on matters of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets.

Continental Civil Law with its closer association with Legal Positivism has led to a presumption of positive liberty. It is my right, as codified in the system of laws, to be able to act in this manner. Rights are defined as things you are allowed to do by the sovereign such as freedom of religion, speech, press, and assembly. You are enabled to do these things.

[Fragony]

@Ronin And if you are suspect of a crime, police is sure you did it but they can't proof it, no thx. Prosecuters tend to 'make' a case. Plenty examples of that.

[Ronin]

@Ronin And if you are suspect of a crime, police is sure you did it but they can't proof it, no thx. Prosecuters tend to 'make' a case. Plenty examples of that.

zero reported cases of such a thing happening over here don´t give me cause for alarm....there have been a couple of cases of interrogations getting kinda "heated" let's say...but nothing as clever and sophisticated as you are suggesting.
on the other hand look at the number of prisoners in the united states being cleared while they are sitting in death row....and they don´t have ID cards.
If a state wants to **** you over I hardly thing the existence or not of a small card with some bio data is the thing that is gonna make a difference.

[InsaneApache]

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

Bollox.

[Fragony]

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

Bollox.

If you have nothing to hide you have a boring life. Thing is the people who want to know where you were what you did how you got there and with who, often do have boring lifes. Piss of with your databases

[Husar]

Germany doesn't have ID cards, we have personnel cards (Personalausweis), some say this and the fact there is some strange artwork on the back that can be interpreted as the head of a goat means we are all considered personnel of the NWO/devil. Oh and there's a pyramid as well, so make that NWO/devil/freemasons/illuminati.

This is how far we have come, an entire nation enslaved by the cards that they carry, meanwhile, people continue to use credit cards and participate in cashback programs etc.

As Ronin already said, there are enough countries that don't have ID cards where the government oppresses and jails innocent people and enough that do have ID cards where this is not the case.

[Ronin]

If you have nothing to hide you have a boring life. Thing is the people who want to know where you were what you did how you got there and with who, often do have boring lifes. Piss of with your databases

I have nothing to hide....I have a few things I would be embarrassed of....but nothing I must hide :P

[Furunculus]

Germany doesn't have ID cards, we have personnel cards (Personalausweis), some say this and the fact there is some strange artwork on the back that can be interpreted as the head of a goat means we are all considered personnel of the NWO/devil. Oh and there's a pyramid as well, so make that NWO/devil/freemasons/illuminati.

This is how far we have come, an entire nation enslaved by the cards that they carry, meanwhile, people continue to use credit cards and participate in cashback programs etc.

As Ronin already said, there are enough countries that don't have ID cards where the government oppresses and jails innocent people and enough that do have ID cards where this is not the case.

it's a common law thing; not wanted in britain.

if you like your ID cards by all means keep them, but not here, no thanks.

this is a public service broadcast from your resident xenophobe and hyper-nationalist with racist, militaristic, populist, and autarkic tendencies

[Beskar]

lol, sorry, who were those "lots" of British people who agree and consent to use compulsory ID cards?

i ask because i am having trouble identifying them................

You missed my other post. The fact we have these other cards already and that this is merger of all these different details in one handy form.

But during the whole thing, people were like "I don't really want ID cards, same with all these others cards we are given, but attempting to force these on us, removing our liberty and forcing us to pay for them as well?! Madness".

this is a public service broadcast from your resident hyper-nationalist autarkic racist

Sorry for off-topic, but racist? I never thought of you as such or I never thought you revelled in such things.

[Noncommunist]

It just seems natural to me that if you are a citizen of a country, then the government issues you a document identifying you as such.....
if they don´t then what is a valid form of identification if you don´t drive a car or don´t want to travel internationally? You simply don´t have a legal id? doesn´t that raise all sort of problems?

There's birth certificates which I remember us using when getting my passport for the first time. And at the moment, I've got a state ID which I've found useful when I need some sort of ID. Plus, beyond a certain age, pretty much everyone has a driver's license. At the moment, I don't since I'm on a small campus but I'm sure once I get a "real" job, I'll probably have one.

[Furunculus]

You missed my other post. The fact we have these other cards already and that this is merger of all these different details in one handy form.

But during the whole thing, people were like "I don't really want ID cards, same with all these others cards we are given, but attempting to force these on us, removing our liberty and forcing us to pay for them as well?! Madness".

not my recollection of affairs i have to say.

Sorry for off-topic, but racist? I never thought of you as such or I never thought you revelled in such things.

apologies, never meant to imply that you did. merely a carry-over from the various euro-threads whenever i use differing cultural norms to explain different 'national' attitudes to things like monarchies/id-cards/ever-deeper-union etc. by the time i'd got to page forty in the ECR thread i had begun to collate a whole strong of them! :D

[Fragony]

I have nothing to hide....I have a few things I would be embarrassed of....but nothing I must hide :P

Oh common it's perfectly awesome to be photographed with a pornqueen. I only think about how these fingerprints and probably DNA soon can be used against me, by people who can, it doesn't improve my mood. Databases can be hacked, DNA is in your hair, and fingerprints can be faked. I don't trust people with it being possible. Nurse here got life in prison because she was supposedly a serial-killer, if you would read up on how things went you would probably understand my position a little better.

[lars573]

I'm happy to carry papers which prove I'm qualified to drive a motor vehicle. I'm happy to carry papers which enable me to travel internationally. I'm not happy to carry papers simply to walk down the street.

Counterpoint: What if those papers could be used as the previous two?

[Slyspy]

Irrelevant. The first is basically a certificate of qualification. The second is a way of easing travel to and from foreign countries (it also identifies me as a British citizen). The first I only have to carry when driving, the second when travelling abroad.

[Ronin]

Oh common it's perfectly awesome to be photographed with a pornqueen.

I'm not embarrassed of that one....I damn near have it in my curriculum vitae :P

[rory_20_uk]

People shouldn't have to carry papers, but I think the government should have databases of certainly fingerprints. People who were not on the database would have to explain why not.

The system the government set up of course cost a fortune - like the NHS computer system which was scrapped and the integrated fire services which was also scrapped.

[Beskar]

Irrelevant. The first is basically a certificate of qualification. The second is a way of easing travel to and from foreign countries (it also identifies me as a British citizen). The first I only have to carry when driving, the second when travelling abroad.

and you don't need to have your ID card with you at all times neither.