Patch starts to get worse... MONK spam

[jepp21]

Hi everybody

am i the only one who is faced with only monk spams..... 6 today (out of 7 games).... 6 losses...1 win!!!

The patch is ridicolous..... it got rid of the loans... GOOD, but it made a new spam element.... and when you cant bring 4 bow monks, u cant effectively counter naginata warrior monks (except with matchlocks, but there the friendly fire makes it impossible to get more then 1 shot off)

[Shurikenjitsu]

http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...ave-Been/page3

The multiplayer is dead with this patch. The game is simply a Monk spam (10-11 melee Monks), or a Ninja spam. Archers, Swords, Cav is almost useless right now. Do some test.
I'll go out for a month for holidays, I hope this will be fixed before I am back, or I will have to move to another game.

The Naval is also dead, it's unplayable for people that did not buy the "Rise of Samurai", no way to win against the Samurai ships abuse.

Nothing we have to thanks Developers for, just the attempt to do things better is always valuable, but not with these results. Game was way better before this patch.

I am very sad for this.

RAPAX Brutus

[jepp21]

well.... u can counter them with some bow cav, but bow cav sucks at much and will spell disaster if you arent faced with the right enemies

[AMP]

Just noticing the power of monks now eh? The only option is to roll with monks as well, but you don't need to spam them. I play with 4 vetted monks and that's enough to win vs a monk spam. I got my army tweaked now and so far I only lost vs 1 monk spam, but that was mostly because he was able to get the morale dojo, so I had no chance on routing any of his monks, when he has a leadership general on top of that and monks have crazy morale even without buffs. When you remove morale from the game it becomes less tactical...

CA goes overkill when it comes to balance instead of just tweaking a tiny bit here and there with small balancing patches, which isn't helping at all. The balance of units should allow you to win with many setups, not needing certain units just to counter a certain build... just get stats, prices and morale to reasonable lvls on all units and the game will be much better.

[Shurikenjitsu]

HA have a cap of 3 units, I used them but they are not effective enough (still low level, I must level them), and simply getting into a forest makes them useless.

Amp, how can you stop a 11 Monks army with just 4? They just do not rout.
I had a Long player battle last night, he simply came with 11 Monks, 6 ashis and 2 Nagi cav. It's 19 units, of wich more than half wont rout, even after killing General.

RAPAX Brutus

[AMP]

Yea just lost to a spam with my balanced build.. so I decided to be cheese right back and spam spam spam. They counter good cav charges to the back and counter swords easily and you can't use guns without inflicting some of your own losses by FF even it's 1 soldier out of the unit and bows are to expensive to field in numbers. So it's just naginata totalwar for now.... mostly monks

[Cu'Roi]

one thing is some players have been running around saying that kiso ninjas are as viable as monk armies, but it's hard to know if those players are ahead of the curve or if they just don't know what they are talking about. i've been skeptical, but i was wondering if anyone else had an thoughts about that or experiences with/against those units post patch?

[andferpa]

The grenades are strong if used right, but ninjas take a lot of work to be good.

If meatshield ff penalty was not in place, I could see myself using 5 or 6 ninjas behind yari ashi, blowing up the monks.
For now, I´m limited to yari ashi on spearwall, with monks behind and attendants to the flanks (thanks swoosh)

[Cu'Roi]

did spearwall ability get a buff with this patch? that's another thing i have been wondering

[jepp21]

Now... i think ill totally remake my build.

Till this moment ive used 4 vetted katans sams as my core, with support of 2 naginata sams to support in a melee. Ive used 2 200-ranged bow warrior monks as my skirmishing component, and as cavalry i usually used some yari cav with a bow cav or mounted samurai to increase my mobility.

Now ive been thinking..... what if i use 4 vetted nagi warrior monks as you said, supported by around 2 katana samurai (ore naginata samurai?) not vetted for the sake of cheapness. Ill keep the 2 200-range bow warrior monks, but then 1 or 2 ninjas and some naginata attendants as meat-shield (yes... i saw heirs last vid). Then some yari cav just to counter flanking manouvers...

What do u think about that.... i dint use matchlocks cos' of the friendly fire. only on the numazama-something map where the forests on the flank provides a good oppertulity to flank with a matchlock unit and a yari ashi just for protection vs cav charges

[AMP]

Why would you use swords when they have been nerfed and also you have to take retainers into account that with retainers you can only really go strong on spears or swords but not both. Right now spears are buffed so you use retainers that benefit spears and you stay away from swords. Sadly that's how TW has become with these balance issues and the retainers.

Bows aren't that great because with 2 bow monks you can field like 5 to 6 vetted yari ashi with +2att and +2def or a bunch of cheap attend, which over all is more useful than 2 bow monks. Matchlock aren't that great because of the overkill on friendly morale loss. Swords have no role now from being nerfed and cavalry don't do much good against a pure army consisting of spears with high morale.

The game has been so dumbed down and broken that anyone who doesn't have a spear spam build will most likely lose against my build. I can just used vetted monks and vetted yari ashi only and nothing else and just click on my opponents units and call it GG...

[andferpa]

As AMP says, jepp, you are better off by just vetting up naginata warrior monks and yari ashigaru...

[jepp21]

I wont play MP untill they get a new patch done

[jepp21]

Or perhaps i should just make a build og naginata and bow cav....

its sad..... really sad.... they should have limited naginata monks to 4 units really

[andferpa]

Not even bow cav, just naginata monks, 2 or 3 monk cav, and 1 or 2 meatshield units...

[jepp21]

morally speaking i am not able to preform such a cheesy army

no.... i will bring a descent, balanced army.... even if it costs me 400 losses

[Cu'Roi]

assuming you play for fun, you probably won't play very long unless you find losing fun. :)

they are releasing a hot fix patch, so that will put a fix to the monk spam i'm sure... unless you've got a saved army of course. by this time around people will have learned the lesson on how to get around the unit caps. therefore they need to actually nerf the monk (or reset saved armies) IMO.

If they don't, it raises an interesting question: If you're going to play MM competitively, and knowing that say 10% of your opponents will still bring 8 monks to battle, if you have a saved army do you do the same? If someone does it to you you're gonna lose, and you don't bring a similar build your going to lose. but if you do load a spam build and slaughter someone who doesn't load a similar army thats pretty lame.

btw they didn't fix the over fund bug or the clone bug either.

[jepp21]

I could just stick to siege battles.... they seem nicer.... more balanced actually..

U cant use monks to attack a castle unless u already have eliminated the enemy missile force, right?... unless they use meatshields of course.

But yearh.... its not fun to loose, but i got a few good wins yesterday againgst descent armies (descent army vs descent army). Nice and balanced, just the way i like it. But yearh, i really look forward to a new patch..... nerf the warrior monks..... im thinking like take 2 att and 1 defence from them, and nerf the retainers.... perhaps make "wavering faith" take 3 morale off the enemy monks instead of 2?

But yearh.... i know.... suggestions and such is just bullshit untill Ca actually does something about it... i wish they'd listen more to the actual community

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

Even I have to say,while being a defender of total war,The patch is bad.:( Half the time I tried moving my army,all I heard were shouts instead of moving.

[versionlangley]

hm..my saved army that have 8 bow cavs and one with 6 bow cav are deleted

[Tomisama]

Total War: Shogun 2 Updated
Product Update - Valve 06:05
Updates to Total War: Shogun 2 have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The major changes include:

- The cost modification affecting Veterans through retainers has been corrected, to deduct at the correct cost.
- Promoting the Avatar now correctly adds 10 Veterans per tier.
- Invalid pre-patch army setups will now no longer be accessible.
- Fixed a hard lock in the Multiplayer campaign during FMV sequences
- Fixed a soft lock during the end sequence of a Multiplayer campaign
- Reverted the Naginata Warrior monk stats to their original values
- Clan influence modifiers will now correctly decline if a clan loses regions in the Clan competition .

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I could just stick to siege battles.... they seem nicer.... more balanced actually..

U cant use monks to attack a castle unless u already have eliminated the enemy missile force, right?... unless they use meatshields of course.

But yearh.... its not fun to loose, but i got a few good wins yesterday againgst descent armies (descent army vs descent army). Nice and balanced, just the way i like it. But yearh, i really look forward to a new patch..... nerf the warrior monks..... im thinking like take 2 att and 1 defence from them, and nerf the retainers.... perhaps make "wavering faith" take 3 morale off the enemy monks instead of 2?

But yearh.... i know.... suggestions and such is just bullshit untill Ca actually does something about it... i wish they'd listen more to the actual community

Hey, I still love doing Siege games!

[AggonyDuck]

I removed the posts as naming and shaming isn't exactly allowed here.

Ducky

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Oh come on Ducky. You never any fun.

[jepp21]

Thanks.... I now I did a bad thing there, and i even surprised myself so much that my heart stopped beating a little..

Promise it wont happen again.... and of course, I dont accept people teasin' me with such a serious thing which should be taken care of "behind the scenes"

Thanks

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Thanks.... I now I did a bad thing there, and i even surprised myself so much that my heart stopped beating a little..

Promise it wont happen again.... and of course, I dont accept people teasin' me with such a serious thing which should be taken care of "behind the scenes"

Thanks

Joke dude, life is short.

[jepp21]

as i said, even I was shocked, will never happen again (and yes, i take theese thinge seriously "dude")

[Cu'Roi]

wow they fixed bugged saved armies huh? pretty sweet.