Should workers get paid to pray AND get paid breaks on top of that?

[Major Robert Dump]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nati...rom-hertz.html


You cannot force employers to allow employees to pray multiple times per shift AND enforce the minimum-breaks-per shift. You can't. People will stop hiring Muslims.

As an employer, your religion is none of my business, and I mean that quite literally. Pray if you want, you don't even have to be subtle about it. But don't expect me to pay you for it if you also expect me to provide you paid breaks.

The system is not designed for this.

As for the article, these people knew exactly what they were doing, and now that they are fired they are playing the illiterate, fun-loving, African card, like they didn't see this coming, like they don't know what they did wrong. It's like when the Mexican cement crew crushed your car and when you try to talk to them about it they suddenly don't speak English.

[Fragony]

'You cannot force employers to allow employees to pray multiple times per shift AND enforce the minimum-breaks-per shift. You can't. People will stop hiring Muslims.'

Yep, I am guilty I just did that. Horrible me, but we simply didn't have the funds to fight of the multicultists who will dive on it, so anything remotely sounding muslim went straight to the bin. Not worth the trouble as gutmensch has unlimited funds. No trouble with Africans and Polish, and there are plenty Africans and Polish.

[Crazed Rabbit]

A bit more news on this; http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._hertz07m.html

And the workers and their union said Hertz had previously not required that workers clock out for prayer. The union said it has filed an unfair-labor-practices complaint with the National Labor Relations Board against Hertz for failing to notify the union in advance of what it called a policy change.

But Hertz said the rules aren't new; that it had been trying for some time to enforce the terms of an Equal Employment Opportunity Commission settlement it reached with the workers two years ago that required them to clock out.

A Hertz spokesman said the workers had been repeatedly told they needed to clock out and that the 34 suspended workers had not complied.

"We felt it was reasonable for our Muslim employees who need to pray a couple times during the workday to clock in and clock out," said Rich Broome, spokesman for Hertz.

Broome said it's not about pay — break time is paid time — but to ensure that workers were staying within the 10-minute time slots, which has been a problem.

He pointed out that Muslim workers who clocked out were not suspended.

CR

[Fragony]

Muhahaha welcome to Europe. If gutmensch from his 100% white neighbourhood could accept that his worldview doesn't reflect society we could just laugh it of. But they can't they wouldn't be 100% correct and there is something very wrong about that. It's because of gutmensch that people get tired of muslims, muslims themselves aren't to blame, the few that ask for special treatment are catered by gutmensch

[Hax]

Fragony is at least partially right. The total amount of Muslims that'd actually ask for paid breaks is so small that it has effectively no bearing on the situation of a company at all.

Besides, according to general Islamic theology, you can just skip a prayer and make up for it later. It's not really a big deal.

[Fisherking]

Here in Indonesia, there's only few, very few muslims that insist on having prayer breaks, and I never encounter any here, at my workplace.

*. most of them simply never pray unless it was their holiday

*. some who seem to be religious simply point out that their prayers can be joined and moved to lunch breaks (lunch break is about 12-14 PM), those who work till afternoon commonly have another break at 17-19 PM as well, and there's no one insist on leaving work/study for prayer.

This is interesting, coming from a primarily Muslim country.

Of course I would pray too if I got paid to do it.

As Hax said, it can be made up later. It sounds like workers playing the system to me. Nothing very novel about that…

[Beskar]

Reminds me when I was in Israel though, the prayers were taken very serious for the Muslims (who would suddenly begin kneeling in the middle of the street) and even then, some of those attending market stalls, shops and working simply do an "acknowledgement" and simply continued, presumingly going to make up for it later.

[Ja'chyra]

Short answer - no.

[Hax]

Reminds me when I was in Israel though, the prayers were taken very serious for the Muslims (who would suddenly begin kneeling in the middle of the street) and even then, some of those attending market stalls, shops and working simply do an "acknowledgement" and simply continued, presumingly going to make up for it later

Very much a knee-jerk reaction that is quite common in Arab-majority countries, but is particularly awful in Israel. Arab Muslims feel the need to over-self-identify as Muslims, so they do things like these. They don't make any sense, necessairly, nor is there any requirement to stop working just to pray. If I'm not mistaken there are several sayings attributed to Muhammad himself especially for situations like these.

[Rhyfelwyr]

You should not get special treatment because of your religion.

If you need to go and pray when your employer needs you to be working, go work somewhere else.

Same goes for Christians who won't work on the sabbath etc...

[CountArach]

Under Washington state law, employees are entitled to two paid 10-minute breaks during an eight-hour shift.

Sounds like a bigger problem to me.

[rory_20_uk]

The Crusades would have been a lot shorter and a lot more bloody as the Christians slaughtered their way through the ranks of Muslims who had to kneel down and pray mid battle...

If someone can not undertake a job, be it they live to far away, are too fat, too short or whatever that is their problem. This situation sounds like they are trying for all they can get. Ironically, that is probably against their religion.

[Major Robert Dump]

Sounds like a bigger problem to me.

But a problem arises when those breaks aren't used for things like prayer, yet the employees want break time + prayer time. What's happened is this Union has filled their ears with all sorts of things they "deserve."

[CountArach]

But a problem arises when those breaks aren't used for things like prayer, yet the employees want break time + prayer time. What's happened is this Union has filled their ears with all sorts of things they "deserve."

What I meant was that 20 minutes of breaks in an 8 hour shift is hideous - anything less than 45 minutes cumulative breaks here would be considered terrible.

[Fisherking]

In Washington (State) heavy industrial workers are entitled to two 20min breaks in addition to their lunch period which is set at a minimum of another 20min.

Each State sets its labor laws but I don’t think any of them have 45min or more of paid breaks in addition to lunch.

[Major Robert Dump]

What I meant was that 20 minutes of breaks in an 8 hour shift is hideous - anything less than 45 minutes cumulative breaks here would be considered terrible.

They typically get a 30-60 minute unpaid lunch halfway through the shift. It's not like they are working 8 hours with 20 minutes to rest. In some states the lunches may even be paid.

Some states make rules dictating how short or long the lunch has to be, because lot of workers would actually prefer to skip lunch if it meant going home an hour earlier, but then those same people can turn around and sue for "not getting a lunch" if the lunch skippage request is not on paper somewhere, whihc results in comapnies forcing people to take lunches and breaks for fear that some jackass will sue them

[Fragony]

Fragony is at least partially right. The total amount of Muslims that'd actually ask for paid breaks is so small that it has effectively no bearing on the situation of a company at all.

Besides, according to general Islamic theology, you can just skip a prayer and make up for it later. It's not really a big deal.

Ya it isn't even required, it's christians becomming flagalants. But look from my perspective and why I discriminated, a Dutch convert no less asked for the same thing and it is impossible to organise anything that way and it's very very costly. So I refused and got gutmensch at my throat. It costed almost 20.000 euro getting gutmensch of my throat. Gutmensch will always demand you live their dream

[CountArach]

In Washington (State) heavy industrial workers are entitled to two 20min breaks in addition to their lunch period which is set at a minimum of another 20min.

Each State sets its labor laws but I don’t think any of them have 45min or more of paid breaks in addition to lunch.

Ah right, same as here then pretty much. No worries.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I get one 30 minute unpaid break on an 8 hour shift. Same if I stay on for 9-11 hours. But I know when people do the full day (14 hours) they get 1 hour 30.