Knox Appeal

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7920N620111003

American student Amanda Knox made a tearful plea on Monday to be acquitted of murdering her British roommate during a brutal erotic game, saying she was paying with her life for a crime she did not commit.

"I am the same person I was four years ago," said Knox, visibly shaking and fighting to hold back tears. "I am not what they say I am," she said, seeking to rebut prosecution suggestions that she was a manipulative, sex-mad "she-devil."

"I lost a friend, in the most brutal and inexplicable way possible. My absolute faith in the police authorities was betrayed, I've had to face absolutely unfair ... and baseless accusations. I am paying with my life for things I did not commit."

The Seattle native and her Italian boyfriend at the time, Raffaele Sollecito, are fighting a 2009 verdict that found them guilty of stabbing Leeds University exchange student Meredith Kercher to death during a drug-fueled sexual assault.

The panel of two professional and six lay judges retired to consider a verdict immediately after Knox's final plea. Their decision is expected after 8 p.m. (1800 GMT) on Monday.

Seems like there's way more than just reasonable doubt, especially when the prosecution is essentially reduced to name calling.

CR

Foxy Knoxy eh, sex mad, she devil? Sounds like my kinda girl

In all seriousness there is alot that went on that night - apart from sex - that raises doubts, amongst other things...

Didnt she change her statements as much as she changed boyfriends? The window was shashed from inside out, they went to a 24 hour garage to buy cleaning stuff to clean the flat, she then tried to slander the police by claiming at a later date she was beaten by them. Was on the phone at 3am or whatever time trying to establish an alibi? There is lots of questions.

One thing that cannot and should not be forgotten is that an innocent girl was raped and murdered.

I'm no judge and I know nothing about the law, but I can read people she did it

I guess this is why we have judges. I couldn't for the life of me decide - based on a couple of news clippings - what part she must have had in the whole affair. And I think none of us can.

AII

Started to read a little bit about the case, then stopped when my head hurt too much. "Confusing" doesn't begin to cover it.

My only question would be this: do Ms. Knox or her Italian boyfriend have any prior history? Psychiatric, criminal? 'Cause stabby rape-murders don't normally come out of nowhere.

I don't get why America paints her as a innocent trap girl who just happened to be in a drug-fueled sex orgy with a female who ended up brutually stabbed and raped by her and her boyfriend, it made no sense what so ever. There are some serious questions and they need to be addressed and I don't think both of them simply getting off the hook because of the American PR machine would be the best solution. There needs to be a serious and considered case to try to accurately determine their guilt or not.

However, with the recent changes in the evidence, the courts have decided to release and clear the both of them. Just hope that the ones responsible are found and tried because some one ended up losing their life and no one should end up like that.

Well, she's been acquitted. I see where you are coming from Beskar, but I think it's a bit of an insult to the Italian legal system to suggest she was freed because of an American PR machine. As for a serious and considered case to determine her guilt, hasn't there been two?

The case does remind me of the English nanny accused of murdering a baby in the States about 15 years ago. The idea of a poor innocent girl in a forgeign country with an inept police and justice system, with the main reason for innocence seeming to be her nationality.

"I think it's a bit of an insult to the Italian legal system to suggest she was freed because of an American PR machine."

It was a comment in reference to the very strong support and campaigns in the America for her to be freed. I said they shouldn't be influenced by that, I never suggested they were.

it's getting to a point I´m not sure what I´d choose if I ever have to go to court.
a lawyer or a publicist.

Speaking from a profound well of ignorance: It seems unfair to me when people say this acquittal was due to publicity. Read up on the case. It's extremely muddled and confusing. Very hard to say what actually happened, or even to definitively state who was involved in the murder.

Cases like this make me very glad that I am not a judge.

seems like a dodgy case in the first place, congrats to foxxy knoxy.

It's a long standing principle of justice that a criminal case must be proven beyond reasonable doubt. The original conviction always seemed shaky and the appeal showed that there was a considerable amount of doubt about the evidence - certainly enough to fail the test.

Other states might learn something about this maxim of the law from Italy. (Though one notes that the non-photogenic black man in this case is still in jail).

[QUOTE=Beskar;2053382761]I don't get why America paints her as a innocent trap girl who just happened to be in a drug-fueled sex orgy with a female who ended up brutually stabbed and raped by her and her boyfriend, it made no sense what so ever. There are some serious questions and they need to be addressed and I don't think both of them simply getting off the hook because of the American PR machine would be the best solution. There needs to be a serious and considered case to try to accurately determine their guilt or not.

However, with the recent changes in the evidence, the courts have decided to release and clear the both of them. Just hope that the ones responsible are found and tried because some one ended up losing their life and no one should end up like that.[/QUOTE]

Well said.

I'm just as confused as everyone else.

I have little idea what actually happened, but given the dismissal of all DNA evidence and reasonable doubt, it seems to me this was the correct decision.

CR

It's funny because here the press is calling her the "angel with the icecold eyes", apparently implying that she is cold and guilty.

The case is not so funny of course and I have more or less no opinion on it as I don't know the details. I do however agree that a justice system should not really decide by whether her nationality makes her innocent or her eyes make her guilty in the eyes of the public. In dubio pro reo with a chance that she did it anyway, in which case one would hope she does at least use her second chance now and behave.

As for finding the real murderer, it sounds almost impossible for now, maybe the two did it, maybe someone who left no/few traces did it, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to lock up everyone who is somehow related to the case based on flaky evidence and suspicions.

Originally Posted by Husar

As for finding the real murderer, it sounds almost impossible for now, maybe the two did it, maybe someone who left no/few traces did it, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to lock up everyone who is somehow related to the case based on flaky evidence and suspicions.

they already have another suspect in custody that is black, a lot less photogenic and not American....so nothing that will cause a big media hub-bub....
I´m guessing the case will stay just like it is...ad eternum.
or maybe then can phone up OJ for some tips on finding the "real killers".

Originally Posted by Ronin

they already have another suspect in custody that is black, a lot less photogenic and not American....so nothing that will cause a big media hub-bub....

And a drug dealer they say. At first I understood the former boyfriend of Knox was a drug dealer, but apparently it's the third guy. Now it's just a tendency but I'd find a drug dealer more capable of murder than two students. Even if it was Knox, I think she should go free unless it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt as I prefer that over locking people up based on suspicions and sloppy police work.

Else we could just go back to burning people at the stakes as soon as someone cries "witch!".

She'll earn a fortune then overdose.

So, good for her that Italy has no death penalty, because few years ago, she would have been killed for murder...

Eh? Italy abolished the death penalty in 1948

“Eh? Italy abolished the death penalty in 1948”: As teachers say, read the text before to answer: “good for her that Italy has no death penalty”.

I think what he meant was that it wasn't only a few years since 1948. It has been 63 years, which is not a few years ago relatively.

Originally Posted by Memnon

I think what he meant was that it wasn't only a few years since 1948. It has been 63 years, which is not a few years ago relatively.

Exactly. As teachers say ect etc...

Yeap, but she was convince of murder few years ago... So few year ago, in case of death penalty, she would have been executed. And probably some politicians and newspapers called for the return of the Death Penalty for cases like hers... The fact is you can get out of jail, not from the grave... Except for not really well documented case(s)... As teachers say...

She wouldn't have been executed a few years ago, she would have been executed if her recent appeal failed - if Italy still had the death penalty.

When she was convicted her legal team launched an appeal, can't execute someone whos launched an appeal

Anyhoo lets not argue

I think what Brenus wants to say (and at first I understood it like you did Tuff), is that if Italy had had the death penalty a few years ago, they couldn't have released her now because she would be dead.
He's obviously assuming a faster system than the US has here with wait times shorter than 12 years or so, but his point that non-death penalties can be corrected to an extent, whereas death penalties, once executed (pun not intended), cannot be reversed at all, seems valid to me.

In this case they launched an appeal, but to make a general point, there are quite a few cases where evidence seems flaky and appeals are thrown out the window or not possible anymore etc. from what I heard in the news. Wasn't there some guy who was released after having been innocent in prison for 35 years or so? It doesn't always take "just" 4 years to find out a decision was wrong, maybe extreme cases, but death penalty is an extreme measure.

Concerning miss Knox, if she is actually guilty, then her reaction to the verdict is excellent acting, if she really were some ice cold angel or what ever they call her, I'd expect a much colder reaction (well, or an excellently acted one). Most certainly a very interesting case.

Originally Posted by Adrian II

I guess this is why we have judges. I couldn't for the life of me decide - based on a couple of news clippings - what part she must have had in the whole affair. And I think none of us can.

AII

Of course we can, you can sense it when something isn't quite right just like know when someone is eying you. Judges must ignore that of course but that chick's a psycho

Originally Posted by Fragony

just like know when someone is eying you.

I don't think you can. In fact they have tested it and found that you can't. I've also been told that a lot of soldiers think they can but I still doubt it.

Originally Posted by Fragony

Judges must ignore that of course but that chick's a psycho

Wouldn't you think some kind of expert sat down with here to find out about that? Although given the many errors of the prosecution, maybe that never happened.
I absolutely don't trust your witch hunt sense however. It's hard to come up with a verdict and it seems she was at least in the house etc. and would be at least guilty of not helping the girl, however, in a way it's a game and if one side doesn't play well (in this case police and prosecution) then the other side wins, it's unfortunate if she did murder the girl but in the large scheme of things it's quite necessary to ensure that the good guys don't become sloppy and do their job right. Else we get these cases where it's always the guy noone likes anyway because he looks a little strange/scary.

Originally Posted by Fragony

Of course we can, you can sense it when something isn't quite right just like know when someone is eying you. Judges must ignore that of course but that chick's a psycho

Wow I'm glad you're not a judge. That whole statement is completely wrong and what leads to innocent people spending decades in jail.

CR

The Daily Mail posted the story they'd prepared in full for the appeal rejection, presumably after mistaking the slander verdict for the murder judgement. Not just a template article, but complete with fabricated quotes and courtroom reaction:

"As Knox realised the enormity of what judge Hellman was saying she sank into her chair sobbing uncontrollably while her family and friends hugged each other in tears.

A few feet away Meredith's mother Arline, her sister Stephanie and brother Lyle, who had flown in especially for the verdict remained expressionless, staring straight ahead, glancing over just once at the distraught Knox family.

Prosecutors were delighted with the verdict and said that 'justice has been done' although they said on a 'human factor it was sad two young people would be spending years in jail'".

[Full article as posted.]