California passes Dream Act. Illegal immigrants get state money for college.

[a completely inoffensive name]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/california-politics/2011/10/gov-jerry-brown-has-signed-california-dream-act-legislator-says.html

What do you guys think of this?

[PanzerJaeger]

The legislation was opposed by most of the Republican lawmakers who questioned an expansion of programs to benefit illegal immigrants while the state is cutting services to residents who are in the country properly.

Indeed.

I guess $40 million is just a drop in the bucket, though.

[Montmorency]

For everyone talking about building a wall or sending troops to the border, this is actually the kind of stuff you need to get rid of if you want to stop the flow of illegals. Just saying.

So take that money ten times over and spend it on vigorously enforcing border impermeability.

with illegals pushing out citizens from attending colleges they deserve

Presumably, the immigrants who benefit deserve to go to college just as much as citizens. Unless, of course, you consider non-citizens to be inherently inferior.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Presumably, the immigrants who benefit deserve to go to college just as much as citizens. Unless, of course, you consider non-citizens to be inherently inferior.

They don't deserve to go to college with taxpayer money when there is a backup of legal immigrants who want the chance to live here and go to American uni's. They don't deserve to get state money when they disregarded the rules by coming in and don't pay as much in taxes as actual citizens. Nothing about them being inferior, it's all about them coming over and wanting to use American services and benefits while breaking American law at the same time.

It's not fair to legalized immigrants whose parents worked hard to be able to get the same benefits, it's not fair to birth citizens whose parents funded the public education system illegals used to qualify for college. Trying to paint me as a racist is pretty much the only tactic the left wields i nthis argument. Well if you don't want to give money to illegals so they can succeed, then you must think of them as sub-human. What?

[Montmorency]

They don't deserve to go to college with taxpayer money when there is a backup of legal immigrants who want the chance to live here and go to American uni's. They don't deserve to get state money when they disregarded the rules by coming in and don't pay as much in taxes as actual citizens. Nothing about them being inferior, it's all about them coming over and wanting to use American services and benefits while breaking American law at the same time.

It's not fair to legalized immigrants whose parents worked hard to be able to get the same benefits, it's not fair to birth citizens whose parents funded the public education system illegals used to qualify for college. Trying to paint me as a racist is pretty much the only tactic the left wields i nthis argument. Well if you don't want to give money to illegals so they can succeed, then you must think of them as sub-human. What?

I doubt the kids in question intended to break the law, but OK.

Education is a good investment, so as long as you're not going to deport all of them, you might as well educate them.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Immigrants are good for the country. It's good to subsidize them even at the expense of natives.

I'll grant you that there's a ton of other issues relating to the state of our colleges and financial aid and such...

[a completely inoffensive name]

Immigrants are good for the country. It's good to subsidize them even at the expense of natives.

I'll grant you that there's a ton of other issues relating to the state of our colleges and financial aid and such...

I agree, immigrants are good for the country. So let's overhaul the legal process of becoming a citizen, because there is a huge backlog of legals waiting to get in. Speed up the legal process somehow to work within the demands of those wanting to come in.

[PanzerJaeger]

Immigrants are good for the country. It's good to subsidize them even at the expense of natives.

Could you elaborate a bit on this? Are you speaking specifically in terms of education, or more generally? And are you talking about legal or illegal immigrants?

In terms of education, illegal immigrants are much more likely to a) leave the country and b) have a difficult time finding a job in which to use their state-funded skills. Considering those, it reasons that their subsidization would yield far more risky results in terms of the state's return on its investment in comparison to natives.

[classical_hero]

Immigrants are good for the country. It's good to subsidize them even at the expense of natives.

I'll grant you that there's a ton of other issues relating to the state of our colleges and financial aid and such...

Legal immigrants are good, not illegal ones. There is a difference.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I doubt the kids in question intended to break the law, but OK.

Education is a good investment, so as long as you're not going to deport all of them, you might as well educate them.

The kids didn't intend to break the law, but the parents did. It's blatant abuse for parents to come with an entire family and then say, well we broke the law, but why are you punishing my kids?

Education is a good investment, but lets invest in our own citizens first, many of whom get denied grants every year.

[Ja'chyra]

Not inferior just not entitled

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sounds good to me...don't see what your criticizing it for really.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Sounds good to me...don't see what your criticizing it for really.

I just don't think it is fair to everyone else. My last post explains it better.

[Fisherking]

I just don't think it is fair to everyone else. My last post explains it better.

I don’t think it is fair to anyone else!

Certainly not the taxpayers or students competing for aid.

Illegal is illegal. I suppose this is just an effort to secure another voting block for their party. It may be an illegal voting block but they have done what they can to make it possible in the past.

I don’t blame the illegals for wanting to be here. I do blame the politicians for smoothing the way and praying on them with pandering legislation.

To me it seems more like overt political corruption. They choose to ignore legality in favor of gaining illegal votes.

How dose that benefit society?

[a completely inoffensive name]

I don’t think it is fair to anyone else!

Certainly not the taxpayers or students competing for aid.

Illegal is illegal. I suppose this is just an effort to secure another voting block for their party. It may be an illegal voting block but they have done what they can to make it possible in the past.

I don’t blame the illegals for wanting to be here. I do blame the politicians for smoothing the way and praying on them with pandering legislation.

To me it seems more like overt political corruption. They choose to ignore legality in favor of gaining illegal votes.

How dose that benefit society?

To be fair, the "gaining votes" angle is kind of lacking. In the US, blacks and hispanics have been solidly in the Democratic camp for many, many years now. Passing this bill just to further establish what is already there at the risk of turning away white moderates doesn't make much sense.

I have seen first hand how student governments at california uni's (err, at least mine) have been side by side with others, leading the lobbying for this bill to pass. I was asked I think maybe 2 or 3 times to fill out a card with a blanket statement saying, "PASS THE DREAM ACT!" which they (the students organizing this thing) said were going to be sent to the governor in many mass mailing attempts.

[CountArach]

I have seen first hand how student governments at california uni's (err, at least mine) have been side by side with others, leading the lobbying for this bill to pass. I was asked I think maybe 2 or 3 times to fill out a card with a blanket statement saying, "PASS THE DREAM ACT!" which they (the students organizing this thing) said were going to be sent to the governor in many mass mailing attempts.

Who would have thought? University students wanting to help their friends who are unable to apply for the same money to which they are eligible.

[Fisherking]

To be fair, the "gaining votes" angle is kind of lacking. In the US, blacks and hispanics have been solidly in the Democratic camp for many, many years now. Passing this bill just to further establish what is already there at the risk of turning away white moderates doesn't make much sense.

I have seen first hand how student governments at california uni's (err, at least mine) have been side by side with others, leading the lobbying for this bill to pass. I was asked I think maybe 2 or 3 times to fill out a card with a blanket statement saying, "PASS THE DREAM ACT!" which they (the students organizing this thing) said were going to be sent to the governor in many mass mailing attempts.

Students often support things that in hindsight are downright silly.

Jerry Brown…well, do they still call him Gov. Moon Beam?

Students don’t often care who pays the bills so long as it is not them.

They don’t often vote themselves but someone may vote for them, just as with the dead.

I stand by it being an indicator of corruption.

[rory_20_uk]

Providing free education is going to be a major draw to coming illegally to California. Parents are more likely to risk it if they think their children will benefit.

Illegal should mean just that. Economic migrants should be able to get passes to work, but those without should be rapidly deported.

There could be scholarships for overseas students to apply for which come with a student visa for the duration, but that is very different.

To create a system where evading the laws is beneficial creates severe moral hazard.

[Veho Nex]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/california-politics/2011/10/gov-jerry-brown-has-signed-california-dream-act-legislator-says.html

What do you guys think of this?

Well someones gotta get the money that continually escapes my grasp.