[EB]3v3 or 4v4 Historical Battle Idea

[Burebista]

I'm interested.

Any battle with more than greeks it's fine for me. I mean , i specialize in butcher's work and skirmishing so give me the galatai/thraikioi/east keltoi contingents any day.

[Lazy O]

@Robin, Mind setting up a poll on which battle to play so I can get started on making the scenario?

[TheShakAttack]

Yeah! Let's get the basics sketched out so we can proceed with this fairly quickly.

With regard to the issue of General’s and teams:

I think it would be a good idea for those interested to post that they are interested and also indicating which faction they would prefer once the battle is chosen. Any imbalances can be corrected by an appointed neutral person ensuring that both teams have more or less equal amount of experience.

Regarding the battle, an agreement will have to be reached on army composition.

Once teams are made, I think a democratic process of choosing the leader would be best: each team member votes for 1 person (apart from themselves) to be the general. The appointed neutral person tallies the votes and announces the generals.

Of course, if a player does not want to be the general, they can indicate so.

After this has been decided, I think the best way to go about it is to allow the team flexibility in deciding who gets what command, with the general getting the final say: ie splitting it into wings and center, or deciding 1 player will play cav, skirmishers, etc.

So lets decide on which battle quickly! Say within next 24 hours please! Since Lazy and Robin brought this up, for the first one, why don’t we let them choose? (also for the sake of getting things moving quickly)



To make this thing more epic, it would be very interesting to play the battle from general’s camera only: though that might be incredibly restrictive.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

To make this thing more epic, it would be very interesting to play the battle from general’s camera only: though that might be incredibly restrictive.

Actually I think this is a phenomenal idea and would help make the smaller armies more manageable than the larger ones, as was often the case in these battles. Only thing is, there is no way to police this that I am aware of. We would just have to take each other at their words.

[TheShakAttack]

Actually, I think this is might be possible. The person who hosts can usually set the camera and it becomes mandatory on all who join. I will test when I get home.

[Lazy O]

There is a restrict camera option.

[Lazy O]

I propose that we be allowed to see who has voted for what.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Yes but restrict camera does little to make more difficult the various aspects of commanding a large army quite like the general's camera does.

[Yavana]

Yeah! Let's get the basics sketched out so we can proceed with this fairly quickly.

With regard to the issue of General’s and teams:

I think it would be a good idea for those interested to post that they are interested and also indicating which faction they would prefer once the battle is chosen. Any imbalances can be corrected by an appointed neutral person ensuring that both teams have more or less equal amount of experience.

Regarding the battle, an agreement will have to be reached on army composition.

Once teams are made, I think a democratic process of choosing the leader would be best: each team member votes for 1 person (apart from themselves) to be the general. The appointed neutral person tallies the votes and announces the generals.

Of course, if a player does not want to be the general, they can indicate so.

After this has been decided, I think the best way to go about it is to allow the team flexibility in deciding who gets what command, with the general getting the final say: ie splitting it into wings and center, or deciding 1 player will play cav, skirmishers, etc.

So lets decide on which battle quickly! Say within next 24 hours please! Since Lazy and Robin brought this up, for the first one, why don’t we let them choose? (also for the sake of getting things moving quickly)



To make this thing more epic, it would be very interesting to play the battle from general’s camera only: though that might be incredibly restrictive.

HAHAHA Forget it! You say so only becuz u didnt had dibs and u wish u had! I had dibs! I general!!!!!;] :D
Im all for restricting camera in every game tho!

[TheShakAttack]

Lol. I don't think "dibs" is going to be a very popular system Yav. Though it woulda been funny if that's how it worked historically.

I also wanted to add.... there should a rule against camping (unless that is what happened during battle historically). By that I mean doing nothing and just hanging back. Tactical reserves, missile duel etc are obv not included in this.

[Lazy O]

I think we should just wait until the weekend when everyone is on and we decide it on hamachi chat.

[TheShakAttack]

I kind of agree with you. We can decide teams, finalise rules on Sat and play on Sun. However, if we wait for the weekend to plan a rough outline, it won’t be until next-to-next weekend we can get a game going (since the weekend is the only time that we get a lot of people online). I’m quite keen to get as much planned and ready (certainly the battle) as possible so we can actually get a game this weekend. We can always update rules etc and make next-to-next weekend’s one even better.

[Lazy O]

The forum would be even slower.

[TheShakAttack]

But at least we can hammer out details over the next 4 days. I agree there will not be an opportunity for a quick and efficient meeting like on Hamachi, but rather than wait until the weekend, lets get as much organised as possible so that the final details are decided on Sat and we can play on Sun.

[Lazy O]

The weekend is 2 days away Shak :P .

[Vega]

Force people to make account and vote we have 6 votes from 20 possibly :D Also this idea is so nice, cant wait to start with this

[TheShakAttack]

Lazy Lazy Lazy.....

It's Tuesday morning. So we have: Tuesday, Wed, Thurs, Fri.

That's approx 4 days. Where do you get 2 days from?!

[Lazy O]

If we count wed and thurs and dont count today its 2 days of waiting ;)

[The Celtic Viking]

"If we only count half of the days remaining, then we have, in fact, reduced the time to wait by half!"

Yeah, for some reason I think there's a flaw in your logic somewhere.

[TheShakAttack]

Lol. Also, Lazy, you forget, Friday is the beg of the weekend for you, but for everyone else (apart from storm) weekend doesn't start until Saturday.

[Arjos]

About the chain of command, we should keep the historical divisions of troops (for example Magnesia Antiochos the right, Seleucos and Antipatros the left etc...), that gives already who gets which units...
And whoever is playing the general chooses the battle plan, the rest is to follow orders :)

[Arjos]

Seems we are going for Magnesia, here are the compositions according to Livy:

Battle of Magnesia (190 BC)
Map: EB River Jordan

Arche Seleukeia roughly 50.000

Antiochos III Megas (right)

Antiochos' guard (general unit) - 1 Somatophylakes Strategou (1 chevron)
1.500 Gallograeci - 2 Galatikoi Kuarothoroi
3.000 cataphracti - 3 Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi
1.000 agema - 1 Hetairoi (1 chevron)
16 elephants - 1 Elephantes Indikoi
??? argyraspides - 1 Argyraspides (1 chevron)
1.200 Dahae horse archers - 1 Daha Baexdzhyntae
1.500 cretan archers - 2 Toxotai Kretikoi
1.500 Tralles archers - 2 Toxotai
2.500 mysian archers, cyrtian slingers and elymaean archers - 1 Thanvarê Payâhdag, 1 Shûbân-î Fradâkhshânâ and 1 Thanvarê Pârsig
2.000 caetrati Pisidians, Pamphylians and Lydians - 2 Akontistai

Zeuxis (center)

16.000 native phalangitai in 10 taxeis (general unit) - 4 Klerouchoi Phalangitai and 9 Pantodapoi Phalangitai
22 elephants, 2 between each taxeis - 1 Elephantes Indikoi
??? cyrtian slingers and elymaean archers - 1 Shûbân-î Fradâkhshânâ and 1 Thanvarê Pârsig
2.700 miscellaneous force - 1 Thanvarê Payâhdag and 1 Shûbân-î Fradâkhshânâ
2.000 caetrati Pisidians, Pamphylians and Lydians - 2 Gund-î Paltâ

Seleukos IV Philopator (left)

1.500 Gallograeci - 2 Galatikoi Kuarothoroi
2.000 Cappadocians - 2 Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai
3.000 cataphracti - 3 Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi
1.000 agema (general unit) - 1 Hetairoi (1 chevron)
??? scythed chariots - 1 Harmata Drepanephora
??? arabian dromedary archers - 1 Shivatîr-î Pahlavânîg
??? Tarentines - 1 Hetairoi Aspidophoroi
2.500 Gallograeci cavalry - 3 Curepos
1.000 cretan archers - 1 Toxotai Kretikoi
1.500 Carians and Cilicians - 2 Uazali
1.500 Tralles - 2 Anatolikoi Phyletai
16 elephants - 1 Elephantes Indikoi

SPQR roughly 50.000


Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus (center left)

Scipio's guard (general unit) - 1 Eqvites Consvlares
1.200 roman cavalry - 2 polybian Eqvites Romani
2 Velites
2 Akontistai
2 polybian Hastati
2 polybian Principes (1 chevron)
1 polybian Triarii (2 chevrons)
2 Hastati Samnitici
2 Pezoi Brettioi (1 chevron)
1 Toxotai

Lucius Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus (center right)

Scipio's guard (general unit) - 1 Eqvites Consvlares
16 elephants - 1 Pilei Ya'ar Libim
2 Velites
2 Akontistai
2 polybian Hastati
2 polybian Principes (1 chevron)
1 polybian Triarii (2 chevrons)
2 Hastati Samnitici
2 Pezoi Brettioi (1 chevron)
1 Accensi

Eumenes II - Makedonia (right)

3.000 pergamese and achaean caetrati - 3 Peltastai
800 agema (general unit) - 1 Hetairoi (2 chevrons)
2.200 roman cavalry - 2 Lonchophoroi Hippeis (1 chevron)
500 Tralles - 1 Sphendonetai
500 cretan archers - 1 Toxotai Kretikoi
2.000 Makedones and Thraikioi guarding camp - 1 Thureophoroi (1 chevron) and 1 Thraikioi Peltastai (1 chevron)

Imo there were more Romani, maybe Africanus had 4 legions and Asiaticus 4 aswell...

PS: a river on Romani's left is needed or play next to map's end :D

[|Sith|DarthRoach]

Nice. If we're allowed to pick I want to be Antiochus!

[Lazy O]

Give me the Ptelmic composition so I can get started.

[TheShakAttack]

Give me the Ptelmic composition so I can get started.

Uh, where do they come in?

[Lazy O]

I thought we was doing Raphia. Ok, Roman army, nao.

[TheShakAttack]

I thought we was doing Raphia. Ok, Roman army, nao.

Yeah. Arjos has very helpfully listed the army compositions and corresponding EB units above.

[Lazy O]

SPQR had less men then the Arche? BS I dont buy that.

[TheShakAttack]

SPQR had less men then the Arche? BS I dont buy that.

Lol. Whether you believe it or not, that is what is recorded :P

I gotta say though, it's hard to see SPQR pulling this off in EB if armies are kept proportionate. Even with the stupid chariot moves made by AS during the battle.

[The Celtic Viking]

I told ya we should've chosen Raphia, but did you guys listen? Nooooooooo, you wanted Magnesia! You wanted Romans! Well, you voted for this, but now that you have it, Raphia suddenly start looking more and more attractive. Hm? I could say "you should be careful what you wish for", but I prefer to say "I told you so".

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