STW2 - it came so close ...

[UglyandHasty]

Salutations Orgah's !

Some might remember me for STW, most wont ! Its been ages since i last posted at the org.

After finally managing to get a new pc, first game i had to buy was STW2. At first i have to say i had a blast. The videos, battles feel, weather,
and the campaign map wich is the best of the TW series .. so far. I was more than happy with my first contact(remember i didnt suffer the pre-patch woes).

Then after a week of SP play, i felt like i had done the game from top to bottom. Began looking and searching forums, and find to my dismay how unmoddable the game was. Major let down is the map. Great map out of the box, even if way too small. Great pass between mountain, but unpassable ? Even though you can move your armies as you wish, the map limitations are so frustrating. Not better than the STW map on the strategic level. Oh yes more shinny, but full of dead end.

The tech tree is kinda small, even though it fit well with the small map. Map is so limited, that the game is basically a rush game. Blitz as fast as you can to follow the dominating AI faction that will arise. Because within a 4 or 5 years there's a always a faction or two that will arise.

Units are to my taste, even though because of the rush game you can win with the most basics units.

But in any case, if only the game would have been easier to mod, it could have reach the pinacle of the pc games. Cause most of the previous TW games were exploited to the max by the modders. Just compare RTW to EB, or RSII. Imagine the same dedication to STW2. I guess the game is that way because EA want to get the max $$ out of the DLC ...

So then i decided to go online. I was expecting good battle and times, as i felt the battle engine was good, not prefect but good. How disapointing... There's no-one in the foyer ... ok lets try to battle anyway.. wth ? how come i can only choose ashigaru's ... ok let's fight anyway... Got kicked out of the first 6 games i manage to join. So i figure it was because of my army ... That system of unlocking units and traits online is one big party pooper. Talk about unbalanced game and STW2 online is one.

How can one join a good game in these conditions ? For the recored i've manage 2 games in 5 days... 1st a 2vs2 were my ally bailed out after the game loaded up. So my ashigaru army was facing two armies loaded of no-dachi and heavy cav. So i rushed and got routed (routed well enough that Elmo would have shed a tear of joy...) 2nd was a 3vs3 where i manage to double one opponent while the other 2 were aslep at the wheel(wont say who that make me think of ...). hehe

So overall i felt like this game could have been the big one, but felt short. A good game post-patch, but so close to be a great one. I'll try again online though. If anyone got good advice for this ugly dude on how to find honorable opponent(or get in touch with the TW community) please share lol . I dont mind routing, learned from the best ....

ps. saw Tosa past way .. is he the same Tosa Inu who played MTW ?

*bow out*

[frogbeastegg]

ps. saw Tosa past way .. is he the same Tosa Inu who played MTW ?

Yes, he was the same TosaInu. He used to play STW and make MP maps for it, played some MTW when that came out, and then ended up as this site's admin.

[Nowake]

Welcome back mister!

While I am not a very big fan of mods, I do agree with your review of the game's MP issues. The numerous limitations introduced lately and the lack of consistent, day to day support for correcting the issues arising from the clunkiness of the whole Avatar system make it an almost total failure.

[econ21]

Hi UglyandHasty: I can't comment about the MP side of the game, but I have some sympathy with your "so close" conclusion on the SP game.

You may be a bit harsh on some specifics - for example, you can rush, but you don't have to, at least on normal with the longer victory conditions. And I don't think the map or research tree are too small - I would say they are both just right for the setting. I had to make some real decisions on tech and could not learn everything. I think the chokepoints on the MP are deliberate and help give a challenging strategic AI without resorting to an abstract Risk type map.

However, much as I admire the game objectively, I don't find myself drawn back to it. I guess I just prefer the scale of some of the earlier titles, even if they are less polished.

With a new computer, you might try Empire Total War. When it came out, I found it almost unplayable due to my computer and some teething troubles, now I find it is the TW game I play the most. I suspect the naval battles and near global strategic map need a good computer to shine. I'm also giving NTW another run around - as you might expect from the chronology, it's kind of an intermediate between ETW and STW2; it has some of the scale of the former and some of the polish of the latter. But I have no idea what they are like MP.

I guess I will go back to STW2 in due course - it's one of the best titles for the AI, is very well done overall and has some innovations (e.g. levelling general's and making agents fun) that bode well for the series.

[UglyandHasty]

Yes, he was the same TosaInu. He used to play STW and make MP maps for it, played some MTW when that came out, and then ended up as this site's admin.

I'll always keep good memories of Tosa(even still have a pm from him ). A good and honorable man he was in my humble opinion. Me and UglyGuy fought many 3vs3 battles alongside him. Cheers mate !!!

Welcome back mister!

While I am not a very big fan of mods, I do agree with your review of the game's MP issues. The numerous limitations introduced lately and the lack of consistent, day to day support for correcting the issues arising from the clunkiness of the whole Avatar system make it an almost total failure.

Thanks for the welcome back Personnaly i dont see how a game can profit on the long term from a system like the avatar system. Its a turn off to new players. Even a die hard like me have hard time hanging on ... (especially when joining months afer relesase...)

Hi UglyandHasty: I can't comment about the MP side of the game, but I have some sympathy with your "so close" conclusion on the SP game.

You may be a bit harsh on some specifics - for example, you can rush, but you don't have to, at least on normal with the longer victory conditions. And I don't think the map or research tree are too small - I would say they are both just right for the setting. I had to make some real decisions on tech and could not learn everything. I think the chokepoints on the MP are deliberate and help give a challenging strategic AI without resorting to an abstract Risk type map.

However, much as I admire the game objectively, I don't find myself drawn back to it. I guess I just prefer the scale of some of the earlier titles, even if they are less polished.

With a new computer, you might try Empire Total War. When it came out, I found it almost unplayable due to my computer and some teething troubles, now I find it is the TW game I play the most. I suspect the naval battles and near global strategic map need a good computer to shine. I'm also giving NTW another run around - as you might expect from the chronology, it's kind of an intermediate between ETW and STW2; it has some of the scale of the former and some of the polish of the latter. But I have no idea what they are like MP.

I guess I will go back to STW2 in due course - it's one of the best titles for the AI, is very well done overall and has some innovations (e.g. levelling general's and making agents fun) that bode well for the series.

Yes i am a bit harsh. I guess it come from the disapointement. Dont get me wrong, i think its a good game. But oh my, it could have been THE game ! And in any case, it could still be if only i could play/fight good battles online. But as it is, how long do i have to be routed or kicked to be at the level of good generals ?

In any case i'm downloading ETW right now. NTW will follow in due course.

No one answered me on how to find good/fun opponent online ? Is it possible ?

[leonardo davinci]

well, as far as i know, there are some nice opponents out there, you just can't find them all the time. i remember my first battle to be against one of the rare nice players. he saw it was my first game, so instead of bringing an entire army to kick my ass, i could use an army, while he took only 1 unit (damn, those katana heroes killed 300 of my men before i killed them).

if you want to at least unlock some units to actually make a chance, you could first try some non-match made battles. you can also look for games that are for people around the same ranking as yours. that way you actually have a chance to come out as a winner. also, if you got some really good tactics, you might even beat people way higher in ranking than you are.

[Risasi]

Yeah, I've pretty much given up on new games being impressive any more. I'll play S2TW for SP only I do believe. I think I'll end up playing through a campaign once or twice and then I won't care any more.
I've turned back to the RTW/M2TW engine. There is still a lot of active development going on. RTR-VII and RSII have really impressed me, which are both built on RTW. The depth of those games AND the visual improvements they've done on an 8 year old game is amazing. Of course there is Europa Barbarorum I, which some of the guys here continue to try and improve for MP play.
I'm anticipating Europa Barbarorum II and All Under Heaven (Medieval Asia/Japanese Mod) coming to M2TW sometime in the next year or so. I do believe RTW/M2TW will be the last good "open" titles in the Total War series that will support modding. And it's the modding community that I look to for innovative stuff now.

As for how to find MP players, post in the MP forum on here or at TW Center. You will find good players and most of them will be honorable in their play. I believe Warman just issued a challenge a couple months ago. A few guys stepped up to answer that challenge. I myself play with local friends, but a place like this is also where I would look for quality MP games.