Inferiority of middle eastern militaries in the ancient world?

**Beskar** · 10-30-2011, 00:06

Originally Posted by |Sith|DarthRoach

The problem is that they were far inferior to the west in military matters. But why? Why were their elite of the elite inferior to a levy of untrained Greek citizens?

That wasn't the case...

**|Sith|DarthRoach** · 10-30-2011, 11:12

It wasn't? Marathon, Plataea and Thermopylae beg to differ.

**a completely inoffensive name** · 10-30-2011, 11:18

Because we all know that battles only consisted of which soldier had the stronger will and the most talent. Commanders, terrain, geopolitics etc...all have nothing to do with it.

**Catiline** · 10-30-2011, 12:58

Originally Posted by |Sith|DarthRoach

It wasn't? Marathon, Plataea and Thermopylae beg to differ.

I don't think the Spartan hippeis counts as untrained levy.

**|Sith|DarthRoach** · 10-30-2011, 14:59

I don't recall any Spartan hippeis at Marathon, and at Thermopylae they were far from the only Greeks. At Plataea, all Greeks got to slaughter some Persians.

**Catiline** · 10-30-2011, 15:29

So you think the hoplites of Athens were untrained before Marathon? Or the other Peloponessians at Thermopylae?

**|Sith|DarthRoach** · 10-30-2011, 17:17

They were largely untrained, yes. Spartans were seen as unique because they had a training program at all.

**Kagemusha** · 10-30-2011, 17:33

Originally Posted by |Sith|DarthRoach

They were largely untrained, yes. Spartans were seen as unique because they had a training program at all.

Incorrect.Spartans had a life long "training program": Agoge, compared to other Greeks being part time citizen soldiers. That does not mean the others would not have trained at all or gotten basic military training.Fighting in formation always needs some amount of cohesion so the force can act together. Most of the history, most men in armies have been levies or conscripts. Full time soldiers mostly only elites.

**Sarmatian** · 10-30-2011, 19:46

Originally Posted by |Sith|DarthRoach

It wasn't? Marathon, Plataea and Thermopylae beg to differ.

Thermopylae wasn't a Greek victory.

Marathon and Plataea indeed were decisive victories, from the Greek point of view. You have to understand that those battles didn't carry the same importance for the Persians and for the Greeks. For Greeks, it was a fight for survival, for Persian it was a punitive expedition against some "barbarians" on the fringes of the empire.