Shogun 2 after all the patches

[Hamata]

Do you think the AI has improoved greatly over empire and nappoelon? i sure think so! the enemeny try's to flank etc

[Gregoshi]

Pharoah,

1) Are you talking about campaign AI, battle AI (I'm guessing this is what you mean) or both?

2) Why is TWS2 better? What does it do right or ETW/NTW do wrong to make you say this? I.e., elaborate on the "etc" in your post.

3) From the thread title, are we to assume that TWS2 AI got better with the patches? Did it in your opinion?

Please provide more information and explain your opinion better so that others have some basis for a discussion. Thanks.

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

Pharoah,

1) Are you talking about campaign AI, battle AI (I'm guessing this is what you mean) or both?

2) Why is TWS2 better? What does it do right or ETW/NTW do wrong to make you say this? I.e., elaborate on the "etc" in your post.

3) From the thread title, are we to assume that TWS2 AI got better with the patches? Did it in your opinion?

Please provide more information and explain your opinion better so that others have some basis for a discussion. Thanks.

Gregoshi, as far I've read, what he's saying is fine. I find no problem in this. I don't see why you are telling people to provide even more sources, when that is in the monastery. I've seen on other forum websites from where they ask just one or two simple questions. His just like that. I see no problem in this, So I would please like to request to you not to overtake his short question and then leave it there.

To answer the question: I think NTW had better AI on the campagin map than the custom battles. It proved great in the historical battles as well. ETW was not good, it needed more work. Shogun 2 is pretty much the game it is now. But I read that on a website, total war center, that they had built this on a bad machine, meaning no matter how much you fix it, it won't work. But Shogun 2 is a great improvement. I'll tell you that, it's way beyond the scale of many other game companies out there. Personally, I liked NTW and Shogun 2. But I modded NTW,and NTW 3 is a even more better improvement. But Shogun 2 is fantastic, I'll tell you this, great game, i want more expansions.

[econ21]

I don't see why you are telling people to provide even more sources,...

Greg is not asking for "more sources"; he's asking for more substance. The first post in a thread sets the tone for the subsequent discussion. If the original poster does not put much effort into it, it tends not to generate high quality responses. You can see a good example of that by comparing the two recent abortion threads in the backroom.

I've seen on other forum websites from where they ask just one or two simple questions.

Well, without meaning to sound arrogant, the Org aims to be more than another "forum website": our niche is to encourage more substantive discussions; we were recently praised for that by CA. We try to do better than the "yes it is" "oh no it isn't" "oh yes it is" back and forth pantomime that passes for discussion in some other forums.

To answer the question...

My take on the question is that the ETW campaign AI could not cope with the incredible scope and freedom of the inter-continental map (except for Maratha, they rock!). By contrast, STW2 narrows that down dramatically with mountain walls creating choke points so that provinces become almost Risk style ones with limited lines of approach. This gives the AI more of a chance to perform (it is possible to program very good AI in games where movement options are limited, eg chess, but hard to do so for more free form games such as TW battles).

The ETW AI also suffered from losing the tech race (fire by rank and 2nd rates anhilating all in their path), which seems less crucial in STW2.

I am not sure about the battle AI: STW2s AI is certainly competent and seems to be put on a better fight. I found ETWs musket based AI a little passive whereas NTW seemed to go to the other extreme, hurling itself onto your grapeshot firing cannon (or rather marching forward determinedly then suddenly becoming passive when it reached grapeshot range). I suspect TW is better for programming melee based AI than firepower based AI. (The native Americans in ETW could be extremely effective early on, when they just form an enormous battleline and walk over nascent European armies.)

STW2 still suffers from a few AI flaws that carry forward from ETW and NTW: an inability to recognise the importance of trade nodes and lamentable performance in siege defenses (it will mill around the centre getting shot to death or fixate on initial feint moves ignoring subsequent real enemy approaches elsewhere).

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

If I may econ, thank you for replying too me and solving it a bit, but I found Gregoshi's post too bossy. You normally would do all that stuff in the monastry. But then of course, If I were a admin, I wouldn't talk like to that to my members, but it is your choice.

[A Nerd]

I enjoy the AI in Shogun 2, as a result of the patch or not. I seldom notice the changes anyway but I assume things are made better. I have found in two campaigns so far that I find at least one stack of decent armies with experience of 4-5 (several units) at my borders when I meet a larger clan. This never happened when I first installed the game right after release. My armies have 3-4 skill max (several units)!

Don't laugh:

My most current campaign, I met such an army as I explained moving on my border. I had a green army prepared for another invasion elsewhere but panicked and threw it at said army (I should have fought the defensive or waited for this army to siege but I got scared :O ). Anyway it thumped me! Got one of those statues on the field and everything. Here is the funny part...I am playing Shimazu on...ready...easy difficulty! :O I mopped it up with a more experienced army later after the battle had been prepared by a pair of my ninja though. I have been playing TW for years and I still stink! :/

[Gregoshi]

...but I found Gregoshi's post too bossy...

I demanded nothing. I asked a series of questions and said "please" in my request that Pharoah provide more information in his posts. I thought I was trying to help him make better threads with better discussions.

[LeftEyeNine]

Finding Gregoshi "too bossy" is an accomplishment. He's among the politest of us.

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

I demanded nothing. I asked a series of questions and said "please" in my request that Pharoah provide more information in his posts. I thought I was trying to help him make better threads with better discussions.

That is in the monastery. This is a public forum. People should be allowed to write what they like.

And anyway, I don't want to spoil the thread,so please ignore this and someone please answer to Pharoah's question.

[econ21]

I am closing this thread. Opening post had no content; subsequent discussion largely off topic. Anyone is free to start a new thread about the STW2 AI provided they put some effort into the first post.