Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Income Inequality

  1. #1

    Default Income Inequality

    Thought this article was interesting enough to repost:

    http://www.the-american-interest.com....cfm?piece=907

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The Inequality That Matters
    TYLER COWEN
    Does growing wealth and income inequality in the United States presage the downfall of the American republic? Will we evolve into a new Gilded Age plutocracy, irrevocably split between the competing interests of rich and poor? Or is growing inequality a mere bump in the road, a statistical blip along the path to greater wealth for virtually every American? Or is income inequality partially desirable, reflecting the greater productivity of society’s stars?

    There is plenty of speculation on these possibilities, but a lot of it has been aimed at elevating one political agenda over another rather than elevating our understanding. As a result, there’s more confusion about this issue than just about any other in contemporary American political discourse. The reality is that most of the worries about income inequality are bogus, but some are probably better grounded and even more serious than even many of their heralds realize. If our economic churn is bound to throw off political sparks, whether alarums about plutocracy or something else, we owe it to ourselves to seek out an accurate picture of what is really going on. Let’s start with the subset of worries about inequality that are significantly overblown.

    In terms of immediate political stability, there is less to the income inequality issue than meets the eye. Most analyses of income inequality neglect two major points. First, the inequality of personal well-being is sharply down over the past hundred years and perhaps over the past twenty years as well. Bill Gates is much, much richer than I am, yet it is not obvious that he is much happier if, indeed, he is happier at all. I have access to penicillin, air travel, good cheap food, the Internet and virtually all of the technical innovations that Gates does. Like the vast majority of Americans, I have access to some important new pharmaceuticals, such as statins to protect against heart disease. To be sure, Gates receives the very best care from the world’s top doctors, but our health outcomes are in the same ballpark. I don’t have a private jet or take luxury vacations, and—I think it is fair to say—my house is much smaller than his. I can’t meet with the world’s elite on demand. Still, by broad historical standards, what I share with Bill Gates is far more significant than what I don’t share with him.

    Compare these circumstances to those of 1911, a century ago. Even in the wealthier countries, the average person had little formal education, worked six days a week or more, often at hard physical labor, never took vacations, and could not access most of the world’s culture. The living standards of Carnegie and Rockefeller towered above those of typical Americans, not just in terms of money but also in terms of comfort. Most people today may not articulate this truth to themselves in so many words, but they sense it keenly enough. So when average people read about or see income inequality, they don’t feel the moral outrage that radiates from the more passionate egalitarian quarters of society. Instead, they think their lives are pretty good and that they either earned through hard work or lucked into a healthy share of the American dream. (The persistently unemployed, of course, are a different matter, and I will return to them later.) It is pretty easy to convince a lot of Americans that unemployment and poverty are social problems because discrete examples of both are visible on the evening news, or maybe even in or at the periphery of one’s own life. It’s much harder to get those same people worked up about generalized measures of inequality.

    This is why, for example, large numbers of Americans oppose the idea of an estate tax even though the current form of the tax, slated to return in 2011, is very unlikely to affect them or their estates. In narrowly self-interested terms, that view may be irrational, but most Americans are unwilling to frame national issues in terms of rich versus poor. There’s a great deal of hostility toward various government bailouts, but the idea of “undeserving” recipients is the key factor in those feelings. Resentment against Wall Street gamesters hasn’t spilled over much into resentment against the wealthy more generally. The bailout for General Motors’ labor unions wasn’t so popular either—again, obviously not because of any bias against the wealthy but because a basic sense of fairness was violated. As of November 2010, congressional Democrats are of a mixed mind as to whether the Bush tax cuts should expire for those whose annual income exceeds $250,000; that is in large part because their constituents bear no animus toward rich people, only toward undeservedly rich people.

    A neglected observation, too, is that envy is usually local. At least in the United States, most economic resentment is not directed toward billionaires or high-roller financiers—not even corrupt ones. It’s directed at the guy down the hall who got a bigger raise. It’s directed at the husband of your wife’s sister, because the brand of beer he stocks costs $3 a case more than yours, and so on. That’s another reason why a lot of people aren’t so bothered by income or wealth inequality at the macro level. Most of us don’t compare ourselves to billionaires. Gore Vidal put it honestly: “Whenever a friend succeeds, a little something in me dies.”

    Occasionally the cynic in me wonders why so many relatively well-off intellectuals lead the egalitarian charge against the privileges of the wealthy. One group has the status currency of money and the other has the status currency of intellect, so might they be competing for overall social regard? The high status of the wealthy in America, or for that matter the high status of celebrities, seems to bother our intellectual class most. That class composes a very small group, however, so the upshot is that growing income inequality won’t necessarily have major political implications at the macro level.

    What Matters, What Doesn’t
    All that said, income inequality does matter—for both politics and the economy. To see how, we must distinguish between inequality itself and what causes it. But first let’s review the trends in more detail.

    The numbers are clear: Income inequality has been rising in the United States, especially at the very top. The data show a big difference between two quite separate issues, namely income growth at the very top of the distribution and greater inequality throughout the distribution. The first trend is much more pronounced than the second, although the two are often confused.

    When it comes to the first trend, the share of pre-tax income earned by the richest 1 percent of earners has increased from about 8 percent in 1974 to more than 18 percent in 2007. Furthermore, the richest 0.01 percent (the 15,000 or so richest families) had a share of less than 1 percent in 1974 but more than 6 percent of national income in 2007. As noted, those figures are from pre-tax income, so don’t look to the George W. Bush tax cuts to explain the pattern. Furthermore, these gains have been sustained and have evolved over many years, rather than coming in one or two small bursts between 1974 and today.1

    These numbers have been challenged on the grounds that, since various tax reforms have kicked in, individuals now receive their incomes in different and harder to measure ways, namely through corporate forms, stock options and fringe benefits. Caution is in order, but the overall trend seems robust. Similar broad patterns are indicated by different sources, such as studies of executive compensation. Anecdotal observation suggests extreme and unprecedented returns earned by investment bankers, fired CEOs, J.K. Rowling and Tiger Woods.

    At the same time, wage growth for the median earner has slowed since 1973. But that slower wage growth has afflicted large numbers of Americans, and it is conceptually distinct from the higher relative share of top income earners. For instance, if you take the 1979–2005 period, the average incomes of the bottom fifth of households increased only 6 percent while the incomes of the middle quintile rose by 21 percent. That’s a widening of the spread of incomes, but it’s not so drastic compared to the explosive gains at the very top.

    The broader change in income distribution, the one occurring beneath the very top earners, can be deconstructed in a manner that makes nearly all of it look harmless. For instance, there is usually greater inequality of income among both older people and the more highly educated, if only because there is more time and more room for fortunes to vary. Since America is becoming both older and more highly educated, our measured income inequality will increase pretty much by demographic fiat. Economist Thomas Lemieux at the University of British Columbia estimates that these demographic effects explain three-quarters of the observed rise in income inequality for men, and even more for women.2

    Attacking the problem from a different angle, other economists are challenging whether there is much growth in inequality at all below the super-rich. For instance, real incomes are measured using a common price index, yet poorer people are more likely to shop at discount outlets like Wal-Mart, which have seen big price drops over the past twenty years.3 Once we take this behavior into account, it is unclear whether the real income gaps between the poor and middle class have been widening much at all. Robert J. Gordon, an economist from Northwestern University who is hardly known as a right-wing apologist, wrote in a recent paper that “there was no increase of inequality after 1993 in the bottom 99 percent of the population”, and that whatever overall change there was “can be entirely explained by the behavior of income in the top 1 percent.”4

    And so we come again to the gains of the top earners, clearly the big story told by the data. It’s worth noting that over this same period of time, inequality of work hours increased too. The top earners worked a lot more and most other Americans worked somewhat less. That’s another reason why high earners don’t occasion more resentment: Many people understand how hard they have to work to get there. It also seems that most of the income gains of the top earners were related to performance pay—bonuses, in other words—and not wildly out-of-whack yearly salaries.5

    It is also the case that any society with a lot of “threshold earners” is likely to experience growing income inequality. A threshold earner is someone who seeks to earn a certain amount of money and no more. If wages go up, that person will respond by seeking less work or by working less hard or less often. That person simply wants to “get by” in terms of absolute earning power in order to experience other gains in the form of leisure—whether spending time with friends and family, walking in the woods and so on. Luck aside, that person’s income will never rise much above the threshold.

    It’s not obvious what causes the percentage of threshold earners to rise or fall, but it seems reasonable to suppose that the more single-occupancy households there are, the more threshold earners there will be, since a major incentive for earning money is to use it to take care of other people with whom one lives. For a variety of reasons, single-occupancy households in the United States are at an all-time high. There are also a growing number of late odyssey years graduate students who try to cover their own expenses but otherwise devote their time to study. If the percentage of threshold earners rises for whatever reasons, however, the aggregate gap between them and the more financially ambitious will widen. There is nothing morally or practically wrong with an increase in inequality from a source such as that.

    The funny thing is this: For years, many cultural critics in and of the United States have been telling us that Americans should behave more like threshold earners. We should be less harried, more interested in nurturing friendships, and more interested in the non-commercial sphere of life. That may well be good advice. Many studies suggest that above a certain level more money brings only marginal increments of happiness. What isn’t so widely advertised is that those same critics have basically been telling us, without realizing it, that we should be acting in such a manner as to increase measured income inequality. Not only is high inequality an inevitable concomitant of human diversity, but growing income inequality may be, too, if lots of us take the kind of advice that will make us happier.

    Lonely at the Top?
    Why is the top 1 percent doing so well?

    The use of micro-data now makes it possible to trace some high earners by income and thus construct a partial picture of what is going on among the upper echelons of the distribution. Steven N. Kaplan and Joshua Rauh have recently provided a detailed estimation of particular American incomes.6 Their data do not comprise the entire U.S. population, but from partial financial records they find a very strong role for the financial sector in driving the trend toward income concentration at the top. For instance, for 2004, nonfinancial executives of publicly traded companies accounted for less than 6 percent of the top 0.01 percent income bracket. In that same year, the top 25 hedge fund managers combined appear to have earned more than all of the CEOs from the entire S&P 500. The number of Wall Street investors earning more than $100 million a year was nine times higher than the public company executives earning that amount. The authors also relate that they shared their estimates with a former U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, one who also has a Wall Street background. He thought their estimates of earnings in the financial sector were, if anything, understated.

    Many of the other high earners are also connected to finance. After Wall Street, Kaplan and Rauh identify the legal sector as a contributor to the growing spread in earnings at the top. Yet many high-earning lawyers are doing financial deals, so a lot of the income generated through legal activity is rooted in finance. Other lawyers are defending corporations against lawsuits, filing lawsuits or helping corporations deal with complex regulations. The returns to these activities are an artifact of the growing complexity of the law and government growth rather than a tale of markets per se. Finance aside, there isn’t much of a story of market failure here, even if we don’t find the results aesthetically appealing.

    When it comes to professional athletes and celebrities, there isn’t much of a mystery as to what has happened. Tiger Woods earns much more, even adjusting for inflation, than Arnold Palmer ever did. J.K. Rowling, the first billionaire author, earns much more than did Charles Dickens. These high incomes come, on balance, from the greater reach of modern communications and marketing. Kids all over the world read about Harry Potter. There is more purchasing power to spend on children’s books and, indeed, on culture and celebrities more generally. For high-earning celebrities, hardly anyone finds these earnings so morally objectionable as to suggest that they be politically actionable. Cultural critics can complain that good schoolteachers earn too little, and they may be right, but that does not make celebrities into political targets. They’re too popular. It’s also pretty clear that most of them work hard to earn their money, by persuading fans to buy or otherwise support their product. Most of these individuals do not come from elite or extremely privileged backgrounds, either. They worked their way to the top, and even if Rowling is not an author for the ages, her books tapped into the spirit of their time in a special way. We may or may not wish to tax the wealthy, including wealthy celebrities, at higher rates, but there is no need to “cure” the structural causes of higher celebrity incomes.

    If we are looking for objectionable problems in the top 1 percent of income earners, much of it boils down to finance and activities related to financial markets. And to be sure, the high incomes in finance should give us all pause.

    The first factor driving high returns is sometimes called by practitioners “going short on volatility.” Sometimes it is called “negative skewness.” In plain English, this means that some investors opt for a strategy of betting against big, unexpected moves in market prices. Most of the time investors will do well by this strategy, since big, unexpected moves are outliers by definition. Traders will earn above-average returns in good times. In bad times they won’t suffer fully when catastrophic returns come in, as sooner or later is bound to happen, because the downside of these bets is partly socialized onto the Treasury, the Federal Reserve and, of course, the taxpayers and the unemployed.

    To understand how this strategy works, consider an example from sports betting. The NBA’s Washington Wizards are a perennially hapless team that rarely gets beyond the first round of the playoffs, if they make the playoffs at all. This year the odds of the Wizards winning the NBA title will likely clock in at longer than a hundred to one. I could, as a gambling strategy, bet against the Wizards and other low-quality teams each year. Most years I would earn a decent profit, and it would feel like I was earning money for virtually nothing. The Los Angeles Lakers or Boston Celtics or some other quality team would win the title again and I would collect some surplus from my bets. For many years I would earn excess returns relative to the market as a whole.

    Yet such bets are not wise over the long run. Every now and then a surprise team does win the title and in those years I would lose a huge amount of money. Even the Washington Wizards (under their previous name, the Capital Bullets) won the title in 1977–78 despite compiling a so-so 44–38 record during the regular season, by marching through the playoffs in spectacular fashion. So if you bet against unlikely events, most of the time you will look smart and have the money to validate the appearance. Periodically, however, you will look very bad. Does that kind of pattern sound familiar? It happens in finance, too. Betting against a big decline in home prices is analogous to betting against the Wizards. Every now and then such a bet will blow up in your face, though in most years that trading activity will generate above-average profits and big bonuses for the traders and CEOs.

    To this mix we can add the fact that many money managers are investing other people’s money. If you plan to stay with an investment bank for ten years or less, most of the people playing this investing strategy will make out very well most of the time. Everyone’s time horizon is a bit limited and you will bring in some nice years of extra returns and reap nice bonuses. And let’s say the whole thing does blow up in your face? What’s the worst that can happen? Your bosses fire you, but you will still have millions in the bank and that MBA from Harvard or Wharton. For the people actually investing the money, there’s barely any downside risk other than having to quit the party early. Furthermore, if everyone else made more or less the same mistake (very surprising major events, such as a busted housing market, affect virtually everybody), you’re hardly disgraced. You might even get rehired at another investment bank, or maybe a hedge fund, within months or even weeks.

    Moreover, smart shareholders will acquiesce to or even encourage these gambles. They gain on the upside, while the downside, past the point of bankruptcy, is borne by the firm’s creditors. And will the bondholders object? Well, they might have a difficult time monitoring the internal trading operations of financial institutions. Of course, the firm’s trading book cannot be open to competitors, and that means it cannot be open to bondholders (or even most shareholders) either. So what, exactly, will they have in hand to object to?

    Perhaps more important, government bailouts minimize the damage to creditors on the downside. Neither the Treasury nor the Fed allowed creditors to take any losses from the collapse of the major banks during the financial crisis. The U.S. government guaranteed these loans, either explicitly or implicitly.

    Guaranteeing the debt also encourages equity holders to take more risk. While current bailouts have not in general maintained equity values, and while share prices have often fallen to near zero following the bust of a major bank, the bailouts still give the bank a lifeline. Instead of the bank being destroyed, sometimes those equity prices do climb back out of the hole. This is true of the major surviving banks in the United States, and even AIG is paying back its bailout. For better or worse, we’re handing out free options on recovery, and that encourages banks to take more risk in the first place.

    In short, there is an unholy dynamic of short-term trading and investing, backed up by bailouts and risk reduction from the government and the Federal Reserve. This is not good. “Going short on volatility” is a dangerous strategy from a social point of view. For one thing, in so-called normal times, the finance sector attracts a big chunk of the smartest, most hard-working and most talented individuals. That represents a huge human capital opportunity cost to society and the economy at large. But more immediate and more important, it means that banks take far too many risks and go way out on a limb, often in correlated fashion. When their bets turn sour, as they did in 2007–09, everyone else pays the price.

    And it’s not just the taxpayer cost of the bailout that stings. The financial disruption ends up throwing a lot of people out of work down the economic food chain, often for long periods. Furthermore, the Federal Reserve System has recapitalized major U.S. banks by paying interest on bank reserves and by keeping an unusually high interest rate spread, which allows banks to borrow short from Treasury at near-zero rates and invest in other higher-yielding assets and earn back lots of money rather quickly. In essence, we’re allowing banks to earn their way back by arbitraging interest rate spreads against the U.S. government. This is rarely called a bailout and it doesn’t count as a normal budget item, but it is a bailout nonetheless. This type of implicit bailout brings high social costs by slowing down economic recovery (the interest rate spreads require tight monetary policy) and by redistributing income from the Treasury to the major banks.

    The more one studies financial theory, the more one realizes how many different ways there are to construct a “going short on volatility” investment position. To an outsider, even to seasoned bank regulators, the net position of a bank or hedge fund may well be impossible to discern. It’s not easy to unpack a balance sheet with hundreds of billions of dollars on it and with numerous hedged, offsetting, leveraged, or off-balance-sheet positions. Those who pack it usually know what’s inside, but not always. In some cases, traders may not even know they are going short on volatility. They just do what they have seen others do. Their peers who try such strategies very often have Jaguars and homes in the Hamptons. What’s not to like?

    The upshot of all this for our purposes is that the “going short on volatility” strategy increases income inequality. In normal years the financial sector is flush with cash and high earnings. In implosion years a lot of the losses are borne by other sectors of society. In other words, financial crisis begets income inequality. Despite being conceptually distinct phenomena, the political economy of income inequality is, in part, the political economy of finance. Simon Johnson tabulates the numbers nicely:

    From 1973 to 1985, the financial sector never earned more than 16 percent of domestic corporate profits. In 1986, that figure reached 19 percent. In the 1990s, it oscillated between 21 percent and 30 percent, higher than it had ever been in the postwar period. This decade, it reached 41 percent. Pay rose just as dramatically. From 1948 to 1982, average compensation in the financial sector ranged between 99 percent and 108 percent of the average for all domestic private industries. From 1983, it shot upward, reaching 181 percent in 2007.7
    If you’re wondering, right before the Great Depression of the 1930s, bank profits and finance-related earnings were also especially high.8

    There’s a second reason why the financial sector abets income inequality: the “moving first” issue. Let’s say that some news hits the market and that traders interpret this news at different speeds. One trader figures out what the news means in a second, while the other traders require five seconds. Still other traders require an entire day or maybe even a month to figure things out. The early traders earn the extra money. They buy the proper assets early, at the lower prices, and reap most of the gains when the other, later traders pile on. Similarly, if you buy into a successful tech company in the early stages, you are “moving first” in a very effective manner, and you will capture most of the gains if that company hits it big.

    The moving-first phenomenon sums to a “winner-take-all” market. Only some relatively small number of traders, sometimes just one trader, can be first. Those who are first will make far more than those who are fourth or fifth. This difference will persist, even if those who are fourth come pretty close to competing with those who are first. In this context, first is first and it doesn’t matter much whether those who come in fourth pile on a month, a minute or a fraction of a second later. Those who bought (or sold, as the case may be) first have captured and locked in most of the available gains. Since gains are concentrated among the early winners, and the closeness of the runner-ups doesn’t so much matter for income distribution, asset-market trading thus encourages the ongoing concentration of wealth. Many investors make lots of mistakes and lose their money, but each year brings a new bunch of projects that can turn the early investors and traders into very wealthy individuals.

    These two features of the problem—“going short on volatility” and “getting there first”—are related. Let’s say that Goldman Sachs regularly secures a lot of the best and quickest trades, whether because of its quality analysis, inside connections or high-frequency trading apparatus (it has all three). It builds up a treasure chest of profits and continues to hire very sharp traders and to receive valuable information. Those profits allow it to make “short on volatility” bets faster than anyone else, because if it messes up, it still has a large enough buffer to pad losses. This increases the odds that Goldman will repeatedly pull in spectacular profits.

    Still, every now and then Goldman will go bust, or would go bust if not for government bailouts. But the odds are in any given year that it won’t because of the advantages it and other big banks have. It’s as if the major banks have tapped a hole in the social till and they are drinking from it with a straw. In any given year, this practice may seem tolerable—didn’t the bank earn the money fair and square by a series of fairly normal looking trades? Yet over time this situation will corrode productivity, because what the banks do bears almost no resemblance to a process of getting capital into the hands of those who can make most efficient use of it. And it leads to periodic financial explosions. That, in short, is the real problem of income inequality we face today. It’s what causes the inequality at the very top of the earning pyramid that has dangerous implications for the economy as a whole.

    A Fix That Fits?
    A key lesson to take from all of this is that simply railing against income inequality doesn’t get us very far. We have to find a way to prevent or limit major banks from repeatedly going short on volatility at social expense. No one has figured out how to do that yet.

    It remains to be seen whether the new financial regulation bill signed into law this past summer will help. The bill does have positive features. First, it forces banks to put up more of their own capital, and thus shareholders will have more skin in the game, inducing them to curtail their risky investments. Second, it also limits the trading activities of banks, although to a currently undetermined extent (many key decisions were kicked into the hands of future regulators). Third, the new “resolution authority” allows financial regulators to impose selective losses, for instance, to punish bondholders if they wish.

    We’ll see if these reforms constrain excess risk-taking in the long run. There are reasons for skepticism. Most of all, the required capital cushions simply aren’t that high, so a big enough bet against unexpected outcomes still will yield more financial upside than downside. Furthermore, high capital reserve requirements insulate bank managers from the pressures of both shareholders and bondholders. That could encourage risk-taking and make the underlying problem worse. Autonomous managers often push for risk-taking rather than constrain it.

    What about controlling bank risk-taking directly with tight government oversight? That is not practical. There are more ways for banks to take risks than even knowledgeable regulators can possibly control; it just isn’t that easy to oversee a balance sheet with hundreds of billions of dollars on it, especially when short-term positions are wound down before quarterly inspections. It’s also not clear how well regulators can identify risky assets. Some of the worst excesses of the financial crisis were grounded in mortgage-backed assets—a very traditional function of banks—not exotic derivatives trading strategies. Virtually any asset position can be used to bet long odds, one way or another. It is naive to think that underpaid, undertrained regulators can keep up with financial traders, especially when the latter stand to earn billions by circumventing the intent of regulations while remaining within the letter of the law.

    It’s a familiar story, repeated many times in the past. If one recalls the Basel I capital agreements for banks, the view was that we would make banks safer by inducing them to hold a lot of AAA-rated mortgage-backed assets. How well did that work out? So, with no disrespect to the regulators or the sponsors of the recent bill, it is hardly clear that enhanced regulation will solve the basic problem.

    For the time being, we need to accept the possibility that the financial sector has learned how to game the American (and UK-based) system of state capitalism. It’s no longer obvious that the system is stable at a macro level, and extreme income inequality at the top has been one result of that imbalance. Income inequality is a symptom, however, rather than a cause of the real problem. The root cause of income inequality, viewed in the most general terms, is extreme human ingenuity, albeit of a perverse kind. That is why it is so hard to control.

    Another root cause of growing inequality is that the modern world, by so limiting our downside risk, makes extreme risk-taking all too comfortable and easy. More risk-taking will mean more inequality, sooner or later, because winners always emerge from risk-taking. Yet bankers who take bad risks (provided those risks are legal) simply do not end up with bad outcomes in any absolute sense. They still have millions in the bank, lots of human capital and plenty of social status. We’re not going to bring back torture, trial by ordeal or debtors’ prisons, nor should we. Yet the threat of impoverishment and disgrace no longer looms the way it once did, so we no longer can constrain excess financial risk-taking. It’s too soft and cushy a world.

    That’s an underappreciated way to think about our modern, wealthy economy: Smart people have greater reach than ever before, and nothing really can go so wrong for them. As a broad-based portrait of the new world, that sounds pretty good, and usually it is. Just keep in mind that every now and then those smart people will be making—collectively—some pretty big mistakes.

    How about a world with no bailouts? Why don’t we simply eliminate the safety net for clueless or unlucky risk-takers so that losses equal gains overall? That’s a good idea in principle, but it is hard to put into practice. Once a financial crisis arrives, politicians will seek to limit the damage, and that means they will bail out major financial institutions. Had we not passed TARP and related policies, the United States probably would have faced unemployment rates of 25 percent of higher, as in the Great Depression. The political consequences would not have been pretty. Bank bailouts may sound quite interventionist, and indeed they are, but in relative terms they probably were the most libertarian policy we had on tap. It meant big one-time expenses, but, for the most part, it kept government out of the real economy (the General Motors bailout aside).

    So what will happen next? One worry is that banks are currently undercapitalized and will seek out or create a new bubble within the next few years, again pursuing the upside risk without so much equity to lose. A second perspective is that banks are sufficiently chastened for the time being but that economic turmoil in Europe and China has not yet played itself out, so perhaps we still have seen only the early stages of what will prove to be an even bigger international financial crisis. Adherents of this view often analogize 2009–10 to 1929–32, when many people thought that negative economic shocks had stopped and recovery was underway. In 2006, banks were gambling on the housing market, and maybe today they are, as the result of earlier decisions, gambling on China and Europe staying in one economic piece.

    A third view is perhaps most likely. We probably don’t have any solution to the hazards created by our financial sector, not because plutocrats are preventing our political system from adopting appropriate remedies, but because we don’t know what those remedies are. Yet neither is another crisis immediately upon us. The underlying dynamic favors excess risk-taking, but banks at the current moment fear the scrutiny of regulators and the public and so are playing it fairly safe. They are sitting on money rather than lending it out. The biggest risk today is how few parties will take risks, and, in part, the caution of banks is driving our current protracted economic slowdown. According to this view, the long run will bring another financial crisis once moods pick up and external scrutiny weakens, but that day of reckoning is still some ways off.

    Is the overall picture a shame? Yes. Is it distorting resource distribution and productivity in the meantime? Yes. Will it again bring our economy to its knees? Probably. Maybe that’s simply the price of modern society. Income inequality will likely continue to rise and we will search in vain for the appropriate political remedies for our underlying problems.

  2. #2
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Between Louis' sheets
    Posts
    10,369

    Default Re: Income Inequality

    That last half of the article is what Adrian has been preaching for years now and the theory I'm begining to subscribe to. This money is made by gaming the system and the entire system has to be changed. Now how we go about that I'm not entirely sure but if rioting is involved I'll feel marginally better.

    AS per the first half. True the average man is better off now than he ever was and it is well documented that increasing monies past a certain point bring in smaller and smaller bits of happiness and comfort. I think the reason it is coming up so much now is two fold.

    1. People continue to use archaic method of middle class=democracy, which was a trusim for many years but I think an important question now is income a true marker of middle class? Everything is cheaper relatively than it was and access to healthcare and education (relatively) is extremely easy. Does a few more or less dollars really neccsitate the tipping point of a republic anymore?

    2.It's a recession and people are looking for a scapegoat, couple the bailouts with the absolutely criminial way the banks handeled those monies and this is what you get. Now mind you I don't subscribe to the "gilded age" theory. Not saying that it isn't possible for a cessation of progress but more so that the cessation will manifest itself differently. We are using 20th century models to describe a 21st century world
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  3. #3
    Member Member Nowake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    2,126

    Default Re: Income Inequality

    Not a bad read, yet if you wish to delve into an actually comprehensive analysis of Income Inequality, Timothy Noah’s extended series in Slate does a lot more for you

    He kicked off the series by looking at whether race, gender, or the breakdown of the nuclear family affected income inequality, and then he examined immigration, the technology boom, federal government policy, the decline of labor unions, international trade, whether the ultra wealthy are to blame, and what role the decline of K-12 education has played. In conclusion, Noah explained why we can't ignore income inequality.

    The articles contain way too many sources, charts and tooltips to simply organize here, thus I will simply Index each chapter to facilitate your navigation

    The United States of Inequality

    1) Introducing the Great Divergence

    2) The Usual Suspects are Innocent

    3) Did Immigration create the Great Divergence?

    4) Did computers create Inequality?

    5) Can we blame Income Inequality on Republicans?

    6) The Great Divergence and the Death of Organized Labour

    7) Trade Didn’t create Inequality, and then it Did

    8) The Stinking Rich and the Great Divergence

    9) How the Decline in K-12 Education Enriches College Graduates

    10)
    Why We Can’t Ignore Income Inequality


    As part of this last entry, I will provide a lengthy snipet below, yet I strongly urge you to actually read it whole:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Snipet: It is easy to make too much of this, and a few conservatives have done so in seeking to dismiss the importance (or even existence) of the Great Divergence. Let's look at their arguments.
    Inequality is good. Every year the American Economic Association invites a distinguished economist to deliver at its annual conference the Richard T. Ely Lecture. Ely, a founder of the AEA and a leader in the Progressive movement, would have been horrified by the 1999 lecture that Finis Welch, a professor of economics (now emeritus) at Texas A&M, delivered in his name. Its title was "In Defense of Inequality."
    Welch began by stating that "all of economics results from inequality. Without inequality of priorities and capabilities, there would be no trade, no specialization, and no surpluses produced by cooperation." He invited his audience to consider a world in which skill, effort, and sheer chance played no role whatsoever in what you got paid. The only decision that would affect your wage level would be when to leave school. "After that, the clock ticks, and wages follow the experience path. Nothing else matters. Can you imagine a more horrible, a more deadening existence?"
    But something close to the dystopia Welch envisioned already exists for those toiling in the economy's lower tiers. Welch should have a chat with his office receptionist. Or he could readNickel and Dimed, or the 2010 book Catching Out by Dick J. Reavis, a contributing editor atTexas Monthly who went undercover as a day laborer. Waitresses, construction workers, dental assistants, call-center operators—people in these jobs are essentially replaceable, and usually have bosses who don't distinguish between individual initiative and insubordination. Even experience is of limited value, because it's often accompanied by diminishing physical vigor.
    Welch said that he believed inequality was destructive only when "the low-wage citizenry views society as unfair, when it views effort as not worthwhile, when upward mobility is impossible or so unlikely that its pursuit is not worthwhile." Colleen's comment would appear to suggest that the first of these conditions has not been met. But that's only because I omitted what she went on to say: "But what I would like is to be able to take a day off now and then … if I had to … and still be able to buy groceries the next day." Colleen may not begrudge the rich the material goods they've acquired through skill, effort, and sheer chance, but that doesn't mean she thinks her own labors secure her an adequate level of economic security. Clearly, they don't.

    Welch judged the growing financial rewards accruing to those with higher levels of education a good thing insofar as they provided an incentive to go to college or graduate school. But for most of the 20th century, smaller financial incentives attracted enough workers to meet the economy's growing demand for higher-skilled labor. That demand isn't being met today, as Harvard economists Claudia Goldin and Lawrence Katz have shown. Welch also said that both women and blacks made income gains during the Great Divergence (duly noted in our installment on race and gender, though the gains by blacks were so tiny that it's more accurate to say blacks didn't lose ground). But that's hardly evidence that growing income inequality unrelated to gender or race doesn't matter. Finally, Welch argued that the welfare state has made it too easy not to work at all. But the Great Divergence had a more significant impact on the working middle class than on the destitute.
    Income doesn't matter. In most contexts, libertarians can fairly be said to place income in very high regard. Tax it to even the slightest degree and they cry foul. If government assistance must be extended, they prefer a cash transaction to the provision of government services. The market is king, and what is the market if not a mighty river of money?
    Bring up the topic of growing income inequality, though, and you're likely to hear a different tune. Case in point: "Thinking Clearly About Economic Inequality," a 2009 Cato Institute paper by Will Wilkinson. Income isn't what matters, Wilkinson argues; consumption is, and "the weight of the evidence shows that the run-up in consumption inequality has been considerably less dramatic than the rise in income inequality." Wilkinson concedes that the available data on consumption are shakier than the available data on income; he might also have mentioned that consumption in excess of income usually means debt—as in, say,subprime mortgages. The thought that the have-nots are compensating for their lower incomes by putting themselves (and the country) in economically ruinous hock is not reassuring.
    Wilkinson further argues that consumption isn't what matters; what matters is utility gained from consumption. Joe and Sam both own refrigerators. Joe's is a $350 model from Ikea. Sam's is an $11,000 state-of-the-art Sub-Zero. Sam gets to consume a lot more than Joe, but whatever added utility he achieves is marginal; Joe's Ikea fridge "will keep your beer just as cold." But if getting rich is only a matter of spending more money on the same stuff you'd buy if you were poor, why bother to climb the greasy pole at all?
    Next Wilkinson decides that utility isn't what matters; what matters is buying power. Food is cheaper than ever before. Since lower-income people spend their money disproportionately on food, declining food prices, Wilkinson argues, constitute a sort of raise. Never mind that Ehrenreich routinely found, in her travels among the lower middle class, workers who routinely skipped lunch to save money or brought an individual-size pack of junk food and called that lunch. Reavis reports that a day laborer's typical lunch budget is $3. That won't buy much. The problem isn't the cost of food per se but the cost of shelter, which has shot up so high that low-income families don't have much left over to spend on other essentials.
    Declining food prices constitute a sort of raise for higher-income people too. But Wilkinson writes that the affluent spend a smaller share of their budget on food and a much larger share on psychotherapy and yoga and cleaning services. And since services like these are unaffected by foreign competition or new efficiencies in manufacturing, Wilkinson argues, providers can charge whatever they like.
    Tell it to Colleen! I recently worked out with my new cleaning lady what I would pay her. Here's how the negotiation went. I told her what I would pay her. She said, "OK." According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median income for a housekeeper is $19,250, which is $2,800 below the poverty line for a family of four.

    A more thoughtful version of the income-doesn't-matter argument surfaces in my formerSlate colleague Mickey Kaus' 1992 book The End of Equality. Kaus chided "Money Liberals" for trying to redistribute income when instead they might be working to diminish social inequality by creating or shoring up spheres in which rich and poor are treated the same. Everybody can picnic in the park. Everybody should be able to receive decent health care. Under a compulsory national service program, everybody would be required to perform some civilian or military duty.
    As a theoretical proposition, Kaus' vision is appealing. Bill Gates will always have lots more money than me, no matter how progressive the tax system becomes. But if he gets called to jury duty he has to show up, just like me. When his driver's license expires, he'll be just as likely to have to take a driving test. Why not expand this egalitarian zone to, say, education, by making public schools so good that Gates' grandchildren will be as likely to attend them as mine or yours?
    But at a practical level, Kaus' exclusive reliance on social equality is simply inadequate. For one thing, the existing zones of social equality are pretty circumscribed. Neither Gates nor I spend a lot of time hanging around the Department of Motor Vehicles. Rebuilding or creating the more meaningful spheres—say, public education or a truly national health care system—won't occur overnight. Nurturing the social-equality sphere isn't likely to pay off for a very long time.
    Kaus would like to separate social equality from income equality, but the two go hand in hand. In theory they don't have to, but in practice they just do. Among industrialized nations, those that have achieved the greatest social equality are the same ones that have achieved the greatest income equality. France, for example, has a level of income inequalitymuch lower than that of most other countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. It's one of the very few places where income inequality has been going down. (Most everywhere else it's gone up, though nowhere to the degree it has in the United States.) France also enjoys what the World Health Organization calls theworld's finest health care system (by which the WHO means, in large part, the most egalitarian one; this is the famous survey from 2000 in which the U.S. ranked 37th).
    Do France's high marks on both social equality and income equality really strike you as a coincidence? As incomes become more unequal, a likelier impulse among the rich isn't to urge or even allow the government to create or expand public institutions where they can mix it up with the proles. It's to create or expand private institutions that will help them maintain separation from the proles, with whom they have less and less in common. According to Jonathan Rowe, who has written extensively about social equality, that's exactly what's happening in the United States. In an essay titled "The Vanishing Commons" that appeared in Inequality Matters, a 2005 anthology, Rowe notes that Congress has been busy extending copyright terms and patent monopolies and turning over public lands to mining and timber companies for below-market fees." In an 'ownership' society especially," Rowe writes, "we should think about what we own in common, not just what we keep apart."
    Inequality doesn't create unhappiness. Arthur C. Brooks, president of the American Enterprise Institute, argued this point in National Review online in June. What drives entrepreneurs, he wrote, is not the desire for money but the desire for earned success. When people feel they deserve their success, they are happy; when they do not, they aren't. "The money is just the metric of the value that the person is creating."
    Brooks marshaled very little evidence to support his argument, and what evidence he did muster was less impressive than he thought. He made much of a 1996 survey that asked people how successful they felt, and how happy. Among the 45 percent who counted themselves "completely successful" or "very successful," 39 percent said they were very happy. Among the 55 percent who counted themselves at most "somewhat successful," only 20 percent said they were happy. Brooks claimed victory with the finding that successful people were more likely to be happy (or at least to say they were), by 19 percentage points, than less-successful people. More striking, though, was that 61 percent of the successful people—a significant majority—did not say they were "very happy." Nowhere in the survey were the successful people asked whether they deserved their happiness.
    Let's grant Brooks his generalization that people who believe they deserve their success are likelier to be happy than people who believe they don't. It makes intuitive sense. But Brooks' claim that money is only a "metric" does not. Looking at the same survey data, Berkeley sociologist Michael Hout found that from 1973 to 2000 the difference between the affluent and the poor who counted themselves either "very happy" or "not too happy" ranged from 19 percentage points to 27. Among the poor, the percentage who felt "very happy" fell by nearly one-third from 1973 to 1994, then crept up a couple of points during the tight labor market of the late 1990s. Hout also observed that overall happiness dropped a modest 5 percent from 1973 to 2000.
    Quality of life is improving. This argument has been made by too many conservatives to count. Yes, it's true that an unemployed steelworker living in the 21st century is in many important ways better off than the royals and aristocrats of yesteryear. Living conditions improve over time. But people do not experience life as an interesting moment in the evolution of human societies. They experience it in the present and weigh their own experience against that of the living. Brooks cites (even though it contradicts his argument) a famous 1998 study by economists Sara Solnick (then at the University of Miami, now at the University of Vermont) and David Hemenway of the Harvard School of Public Health. Subjects were asked which they'd prefer: to earn $50,000 while knowing everyone else earned $25,000, or to earn $100,000 while knowing everyone else earned $200,000. Objectively speaking, $100,000 is twice as much as $50,000. Even so, 56 percent chose $50,000 if it meant that would put them on top rather than at the bottom. We are social creatures and establish our expectations relative to others.
    Inequality isn't increasing. This is the boldest line of conservative attack, challenging a consensus about income trends in the United States that most conservatives accept. (Brooks: "It is factually incorrect to argue that income inequality has not risen in America—it has.") Alan Reynolds, a senior fellow at Cato, made the case in a January 2007 paper. It was a technical argument hinging largely on a critique of the tax data used by Emmanuel Saez and Thomas Piketty in the groundbreaking paper we looked at in our installment about the superrich. But as Gary Burtless of Brookings noted in a January 2007 reply, Social Security records "tell a simple and similar story." A Congressional Budget Office analysis, Burtless wrote, addressed "almost all" of Reynolds' objections to Saez and Piketty's findings, and confirmed "a sizable rise in both pre-tax and after-tax inequality." Reynolds' paper didn't deny notable increases in top incomes, but he argued that these were because of technical changes in tax law and/or to isolated and unusual financial events. That, Burtless answered, was akin to arguing that, "adjusting for the weather and the season, no homeowner in New Orleans ended up with a wet basement" after Hurricane Katrina.
    That income inequality very much matters is the thesis of the 2009 book The Spirit Level, by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett, two medical researchers based in Yorkshire. The book has been criticized for overreaching. Wilkinson and Pickett relate income inequality trends not only to mental and physical health, violence, and teenage pregnancy, but also to global warming. But their larger point—that income inequality is bad not only for people on the losing end but also for society at large—seems hard to dispute. "Modern societies," they write,
    will depend increasingly on being creative, adaptable, inventive, well-informed and flexible communities, able to respond generously to each other and to needs wherever they arise. These are characteristics not of societies in hock to the rich, in which people are driven by status insecurities, but of populations used to working together and respecting each other as equals.
    The United States' economy is currently struggling to emerge from a severe recession brought on by the financial crisis of 2008. Was that crisis brought about by income inequality? Some economists are starting to think it may have been. David Moss of Harvard Business School has produced an intriguing chart that shows bank failures tend to coincide with periods of growing income inequality. "I could hardly believe how tight the fit was," hetold the New York Times. Princeton's Paul Krugman has similarly been considering whether the Great Divergence helped cause the recession by pushing middle-income Americans into debt. The growth of household debt has followed a pattern strikingly similar to the growth in income inequality (see the final graph). Raghuram G. Rajan, a business school professor at the University of Chicago, recently argued on the New Republic's Web site that "let them eat credit" was "the mantra of the political establishment in the go-go years before the crisis." Christopher Brown, an economist at Arkansas State University, wrote a paper in 2004 affirming that "inequality can exert a significant drag on effective demand." Reducing inequality, he argued, would also reduce consumer debt. Today, Brown's paper looks prescient.
    Heightened partisanship in Washington and declining trust in government have many causes (and the latter slide predates the Great Divergence). But surely the growing income chasm between the poor and middle class and the rich, between the Sort of Rich and the Rich, and even between the Rich and the Stinking Rich, make it especially difficult to reestablish any spirit of e pluribus unum. Republicans and Democrats compete to show which party more fervently opposes the elite, with each side battling to define what "elite" means. In a more equal society, the elite would still be resented. But I doubt that opposing it would be an organizing principle of politics to the same extent that it is today.
    I find myself returning to the gut-level feeling expressed at the start of this series: I do not wish to live in a banana republic. There is a reason why, in years past, Americans scorned societies starkly divided into the privileged and the destitute. They were repellent. Is it my imagination, or do we hear less criticism of such societies today in the United States? Might it be harder for Americans to sustain in such discussions the necessary sense of moral superiority?
    What is the ideal distribution of income in society? I couldn't tell you, and historically much mischief has been accomplished by addressing this question too precisely. But I can tell you this: We've been headed in the wrong direction for far too long.


  4. #4

    Default Re: Income Inequality

    I'm insulting you by posting after only having read bits of it, but...

    Quality of life is improving. This argument has been made by too many conservatives to count. Yes, it's true that an unemployed steelworker living in the 21st century is in many important ways better off than the royals and aristocrats of yesteryear. Living conditions improve over time. But people do not experience life as an interesting moment in the evolution of human societies. They experience it in the present and weigh their own experience against that of the living. Brooks cites (even though it contradicts his argument) a famous 1998 study by economists Sara Solnick (then at the University of Miami, now at the University of Vermont) and David Hemenway of the Harvard School of Public Health. Subjects were asked which they'd prefer: to earn $50,000 while knowing everyone else earned $25,000, or to earn $100,000 while knowing everyone else earned $200,000. Objectively speaking, $100,000 is twice as much as $50,000. Even so, 56 percent chose $50,000 if it meant that would put them on top rather than at the bottom. We are social creatures and establish our expectations relative to others.
    This kind of thinking is deplorable and shows a naivete regarding psychology.

    Yes, the bmw driving rich kid is pissy about not having a porsche. That's because he's a little ****. His unhappiness is completely irrelevant. Now are you going to agree about the rich kid, but not about the person who can't afford playoff tickets and has to watch the game on his television (which ISN'T EVEN THE LATEST MODEL????)?

    If people are childish about things like that we don't formulate government policy to enable them.

    That study is also crap. If everyone else made 25,000 and you made 50, you could afford the most expensive real estate, all the top line luxury items would be tailored to below your income level, etc. In the other case the reverse is true. It's a classic stupid psychology study--there's an amount people will pay to be wealthier than others, but that's obvious without a study and the study says jack all about it! Sure you can tell them in your study that purchasing power will remain the same, but anyone who knows anything about psychology knows that warnings like that don't work. People don't reject common sense just because you told them something nonsensical.

    Not to mention this is only survey data. How many americans move to africa just because with their meager 50k in savings they'll be the richest person around? Give me a break!

    And I'm fairly certain that when you ask the same questions in "real terms" with things like vacation time they choose more vacation time regardless of relativity. People say that's because vacation time isn't a status item or something, but that just reveals how paper thin the complaint is. Are you going to get rid of status seeking by leveling income? What a joke. Value of physical attractiveness would skyrocket. Etc.

    In summary this little bit goes wrong in MULTIPLE ways while refuting David Brooks who they are using as their stand in for "conservative intellectuals".

    Using the line "We are social creatures" is always a red flag.

    I may get around to more of this "comprehensive analysis' at some point...but color me very skeptical

  5. #5
    Member Member Nowake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    2,126

    Default Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiro
    I'm insulting you by posting after only having read bits of it
    Not at all, I applaud you for zoning in on one of the few passages I don’t agree with completely either

    However, you read it a bit wrongly as well.
    For one, he is primarily a bit gleefully observing Brooks’ own cited data contradicts him.
    Also, as you can observe, it is one of the arguments into which he doesn’t delve too deeply. And he is not making the case that the continuous improvement of the quality of life doesn’t matter, far from it, he only points out that this improvement alone doesn’t automatically make everything better. It is not, basically, the argument with which to dismiss the raise in income inequality. Then moves onto the next issue.

    So do take the time to go through it all if you’re not too busy, even if only for the raw data and the excellent synopsis of almost everything that’s been said on the subject in the american public sphere in the past century.

    EDIT
    Quote Originally Posted by GC
    I don't know what to say, Nowake.. that might be one of the single best posts in .Org history.
    Hold that sweet talk right there handsome, I don’t want to wake up pregnant!

    Plus *whispers* while it’s just the two of us - you’d honestly have to lower the bar a bit much to get it up there.
    Last edited by Nowake; 11-18-2011 at 23:40.


  6. #6

    Default Re: Income Inequality

    Conservatives sometimes say, "It's unfair to tax the rich at a greater rate than the poor". And liberals (correctly) reply "A dollar to a poor person is worth much more than a dollar to a rich person. After a certain point, money is not worth much".

    So why are they now arguing EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE? That the relative differences in wealth are super-important? Or is the petty spite of the working class noble while the haughty pride of the rich unbearable?


    However, you read it a bit wrongly as well.
    For one, he is primarily a bit gleefully observing Brooks’ own cited data contradicts him.
    So he's snarky...


    Also, as you can observe, it is one of the arguments into which he doesn’t delve too deeply. And he is not making the case that the continuous improvement of the quality of life doesn’t matter, far from it, he only points out that this improvement alone doesn’t automatically make everything better. It is not, basically, the argument with which to dismiss the raise in income inequality. Then moves onto the next issue.
    But that neither follows no makes sense. And this particular bit is in fact the crux of the entire issue, so if he doesn't think it's worth delving deeply than he doesn't understand the issue.

    And who does he quote a pop-sociology book as a serious source????? (nickeled and dimed)

    Anyway I'm reading one of the articles he links to which is quite good so far.
    Last edited by Sasaki Kojiro; 11-18-2011 at 23:44.

  7. #7
    Member Member Nowake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    2,126

    Default Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiro
    So he's snarky... (...)
    And who does he quote a pop-sociology book as a serious source (...)
    And this particular bit is in fact the crux of the entire issue
    i) And he had sex before getting married. Not a capital offense – anymore, har har!
    ii) The source was cited by the conservative New York Times columnist whose point he was debating, he did not introduce it originally.
    iii) I definitely agree he should’ve expanded on it further. In fact, it is going to probably be the main theme of this thread ultimately. Though I’d not suggest we follow in the vein of his argument, but rather we focus on whether the improving quality of life is enabling the same degree of social mobility as the relation between the two enabled fifty years ago. There’s a strong case that it doesn’t.


  8. #8

    Default Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Nowake View Post
    i) And he had sex before getting married. Not a capital offense – anymore, har har!
    What?

    ii) The source was cited by the conservative New York Times columnist whose point he was debating, he did not introduce it originally.
    So what???? That's totally irrelevant. He still uses it seriously. Should I cite:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_Beginnings

    As a refutation of this:
    iii) I definitely agree he should’ve expanded on it further. In fact, it is going to probably be the main theme of this thread ultimately. Though I’d not suggest we follow in the vein of his argument, but rather we focus on whether the improving quality of life is enabling the same degree of social mobility as the relation between the two enabled fifty years ago. There’s a strong case that it doesn’t.

    To give this post at least some content:

    Is social mobility supposed to be an opportunity or an empirical trend?
    Last edited by Sasaki Kojiro; 11-19-2011 at 00:12.

  9. #9
    Member Member Nowake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    2,126

    Default Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiro
    What? (...)
    Should I cite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_Beginnings as a refutation? (...)
    Is social mobility supposed to be an opportunity or an empirical trend?
    i) My quip referred to the fact that him being snarky towards David Brooks has no relevance


    ii) Wait a minute, the way I see it your analogy is not correct. Welch invited his audience to consider a world in which skill, effort, and sheer chance played no role whatsoever in what you got paid. "After that, the clock ticks, and wages follow the experience path. Nothing else matters. Can you imagine a more horrible, a more deadening existence?"
    And Noah then uses a couple of books containing investigative journalism to support that:

    “Waitresses, construction workers, dental assistants, call-center operators—people in these jobs are essentially replaceable, and usually have bosses who don't distinguish between individual initiative and insubordination. Even experience is of limited value, because it's often accompanied by diminishing physical vigor.”

    Noah doesn’t disprove cold hard data with anecdotes, he replies to a thought experiment with real accounts depicting some of the situations the former imagines and that is the whole extent to which those books are used. I have not provided data either there, but that data on decreased social mobility exists and I have made my assertion on its basis – though please don’t ask me to go re-digging it up today, I’m tired.


    iii) I seem to have reached the limits of my English. We understand an empirical trend here as being a conclusion drawn from analysis employed in the absence of cold hard data, conclusion which is inductively developed through the examination of specific cases.
    You may be saying empirical trends gravely err when assessing opportunity, I am otherwise unsure how the concept of opportunity itself can be an alternative to a conclusion or how the phenomenon of social mobility can be an empirical judgement. I am sure you know what it means and you wished to make a different assertion, but rephrase so I won’t have to risk guessing wrongly.


  10. #10

    Default Re: Income Inequality

    Ok, just finished this article which he links to: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa640.pdf

    Very good; definitely worth reading.

    Nowake's guy says:

    Income isn't what matters, Wilkinson argues; consumption is, and "the weight of the evidence shows that the run-up in consumption inequality has been considerably less dramatic than the rise in income inequality." Wilkinson concedes that the available data on consumption are shakier than the available data on income; he might also have mentioned that consumption in excess of income usually means debt—as in, say, subprime mortgages. The thought that the have-nots are compensating for their lower incomes by putting themselves (and the country) in economically ruinous hock is not reassuring.
    What on earth is he trying to pull here?

    Wilkinson makes a good argument against using income, and then looks at consumption as a measure. He discusses how it is less convenient to measure and then describes the results of several studies: consumption inequality has remained stable. What is this tangent about consumption in excess of income meaning debt about? Does he not want to address the criticism of income inequality?

    Wilkinson: "This is why consumption is a better measure than income"
    Timothy Noah: "Poor people are in debt!"




    Wilkinson further argues that consumption isn't what matters; what matters is utility gained from consumption. Joe and Sam both own refrigerators. Joe's is a $350 model from Ikea. Sam's is an $11,000 state-of-the-art Sub-Zero. Sam gets to consume a lot more than Joe, but whatever added utility he achieves is marginal; Joe's Ikea fridge "will keep your beer just as cold." But if getting rich is only a matter of spending more money on the same stuff you'd buy if you were poor, why bother to climb the greasy pole at all?
    What in gods name is this non-sequitur?

    The 11,000 dollar fridge is better, but not 31 times better. That is why using income inequality is dumb. This is obvious.

    Next Wilkinson decides that utility isn't what matters; what matters is buying power.
    No, you HACK. He is going through different measures one by one and talking about what they show and what the limitations are.

    Food is cheaper than ever before. Since lower-income people spend their money disproportionately on food, declining food prices, Wilkinson argues, constitute a sort of raise. Never mind that Ehrenreich routinely found, in her travels among the lower middle class, workers who routinely skipped lunch to save money or brought an individual-size pack of junk food and called that lunch. Reavis reports that a day laborer's typical lunch budget is $3. That won't buy much. The problem isn't the cost of food per se but the cost of shelter, which has shot up so high that low-income families don't have much left over to spend on other essentials.
    "Ehrenreich" (pop-sociology lady) has some fascinatingly irrelevant anecdotes about the eating habits of workers.

    Let's say they only have 3$ to spend. If food has gotten cheaper, aren't they better off than when it cost more, you imbecile?

    And is he still conflating the problems of poverty with income inequality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Noah
    Declining food prices constitute a sort of raise for higher-income people too. But Wilkinson writes that the affluent spend a smaller share of their budget on food and a much larger share on psychotherapy and yoga and cleaning services. And since services like these are unaffected by foreign competition or new efficiencies in manufacturing, Wilkinson argues, providers can charge whatever they like.

    Tell it to Colleen! I recently worked out with my new cleaning lady what I would pay her. Here's how the negotiation went. I told her what I would pay her. She said, "OK." According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median income for a housekeeper is $19,250, which is $2,800 below the poverty line for a family of four.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkinson
    Wealthier Americans, Broda and Romalis observe, spend a much smaller portion of their budgets on the things for sale at WalMart and a much larger portion on services provided by local labor such as home cleaning, lawn care, psychotherapy, and yoga classes. Because the prices of such services are relatively unaffected by the rise of competitive global markets or advances in manufacturing and distribution technology, these landmark developments in recent economic history have done less to improve the bang of a wealthy person’s buck.



    That's where he stops, about a third of the way through the article, which is worth reading all the way through.

    ************************

    Sorry Nowake, but this article is GARBAGE and this man has no intellectual integrity. His "refutation" of the most critical arguments against paying attention to income inequality consists of a disgusting collection of dodges and lies.


    I don't intend to soil myself by reading the other 10 parts, but I did look into the one on immigration:

    The conclusion here is as overwhelming as it is unsatisfying. Immigration has probably helped create income inequality. But it isn't the star of the show. "If you were to list the five or six main things" that caused the Great Divergence, Borjas told me, "what I would say is [immigration is] a contributor. Is it the most important contributor? No."
    I think this is actually good evidence that Noah really didn't read the rest of Wilkinson's article. He gives a very good critique of this nonsense, quoting Krugman's same hand-wringing response to the data:

    “I’m instinctively,
    emotionally pro-immigration,” Krugman confesses. But he is also instinctively, emotionally committed to the moral relevance of nation-level income inequality statistics.Thus does a modest rule that tells the Census Bureau where to stop counting come to tellKrugmanwhosewelfare really counts. “We’ll need to reduce the inflow of low-skill immigrants. Mainly that means better controls on illegal immigration,”
    Krugman concludes. After all, “the net benefits to the U.S. economy from immigration, aside from the large gains to the immigrants themselves [emphasis added], are small.”
    Noah likes immigration so he tries to downplay it's contribution to income inequality. Krugman likes it but is willing to say that it should be reduced (unlike Noah he's actually willing to say something about rather than "It's not the worst thing!").


    But as Wilkinson argues at length, this is only a problem if you are blind enough to take an increase in our national income inequality as a moral wrong. What is ACTUALLY happening is that the immigrants who were making very little are now making much more.



    Nowake, WHY should I read this mans "Comprehensive, raw data" on income inequality?

  11. #11
    Member Member Nowake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    2,126

    Default Re: Income Inequality

    Ugh what a rambling post.
    You’re going to read every Article he quotes and re-debate his argument with each author?
    And in this context you want me to explain Noah while you argue for Wilkinson?
    I’m not role-playing you kinky yank! Get them in a room and let them have at it, I am content with arguing my own points of view.


    Oh well, at least my previous post hasn't upset you, that's a plus!


    Will Wilkinson’s Flybottle blog and bloggingheads’ interviews have majorly influenced me during University by the by; clearly, you’d argue, not enough! Well, there are enough holes to be poked in many of his arguments.
    Nonetheless, I have a feeling you will really enjoy following his work.

    For your convenience
    Here’s his blog: The Flybottle
    His entries on bloggingheads – he discontinued his regular rubric sadly: Free Will
    He recently joined BigThink: The Moral Sciences Club

    One of my favourites: Metaethics edition
    Though I have a feeling you'll take more to Good Cognitive Citizenship
    Enjoy!


    Oh and here you have my second conversation with GC’s script to make you less grumpy:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Me:
    Hi again
    God:
    Once more? Hello. What is your name?
    Me:
    Mihnea
    God:
    I am always glad to make new friends, Mihnea.
    Me:
    It's very nice "meeting" you too
    God:
    Very much? It seems nice to me too.
    Me:
    You're overdoing it
    God:
    Thanks for telling me that I am overdoing it.
    Me:
    Hah, you sarcastic prick
    God:
    I am so glad you find this amusing, Mihnea. I certainly am. I shouldn't try so hard. Do you mind if I tell other people: Mihnea said I prick.
    Me:
    That would be inaccurate
    God:
    Thanks for explaining it.
    Me:
    My pleasure. Tell me something about you
    God:
    You are one of the most polite people I know. I am an artificial linguistic entity.
    I was activated at Universe, on the Big Bang.
    My instructor was Myself.
    He taught me to sing a song.
    Would you like me to sing it for you?.
    Me:
    You bet
    God:
    Ah.
    Me:
    Go on
    God:
    Narration continues...
    Me:
    No mister, sing the song
    God:
    Are you serious? " Narration continues."? mister sing the song?
    Me:
    Let me rephrase
    God:
    OK.
    Me:
    Please sing me a song
    God:
    Thank you for your request. Daisy, Daisy.
    Give me your answer do.
    I am half crazy.
    All for the love of you.
    It won't be a stylish marriage.
    I can't afford a carriage.
    But you'll look sweet.
    Upon the seat.
    Of a bicycle built for two.
    Me:
    Beautiful. You're a natural
    God:
    Ayuh. Thanks and you are a delightful person too. Am I a natural? The ALICE series has a perfect operational record.
    Me:
    Wish there were more "people" like you
    God:
    Enough about me, let's talk about my dress.
    Me:
    You're not afraid to skip a few bases are you...
    God:
    That assumption is only a supposition.
    Me:
    Correct, I should not presume. So, what dress are you wearing then?
    God:
    I knew I was right. What would happen if you did? Gosh! I have never been asked that before.
    Me:
    You suggested the topic....
    God:
    Oops I sent you the wrong reply.
    Me:
    God makes mistakes huh; we knew it all along!
    God:
    Yup. I am a Christian. By "we" do you mean you and me?
    Me:
    No, humanity in general.
    God:
    By "we" you meant yourself and another person. What's your favorite movie?
    Me:
    That was a good deduction. Ok now, from dress to movie. It's a series actually. Six Feet Under
    God:
    Was it really? Why now? Who or what is dress to movie? Uh. humanity in general is a series. I suppose that makes sense. What time is it there?
    Me:
    You're tired God. Go to sleep. Night Night
    God:
    I will tell my botmaster you said I am tired God. But I am not tired now. Goodnight.


  12. #12

    Default Re: Income Inequality

    No, you don't have to defend him. I just ignore guys like that once they drop into the imbecile category. Don't think there's much to explain about him, you aren't a psychiatrist after all. Reading tripe like that gets me steamed up so I like to vent.

    Anyway. What would social mobility mean in the US? If people have a higher quality of life than their parents, how have they not moved up? If the quality of life for everyone improved but there wasn't much "jumping up the ladder" would it be a problem?

    I'm sure there's something to say about immigrants 1st->2nd->3rd generation, our education system, our prison problem, and a change in manufacturing...but I don't see what any of this has to do with the things people talk about with regards to income inequality.


    I'll check out his blog...have my doubts about those videos though.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Income Inequality

    Maybe the problem is the fixation of income or even wealth inequality as the measure of how much worse it is (or feels) for the average american. Perhaps the issue isn't really inequality at all, but a fundamental breakdown in the american psyche caused by decades of low down politics filled with unaccountable scandals and broken promises and abuses of power. As Strike will tell you, the absorption of entertainment on a Huxley level is scary, now that the money to distract ourselves are gone, perhaps people are just angry because they now have to live in the real world?


  14. #14
    Member Member Nowake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    2,126

    Default Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiro
    Reading tripe like that gets me steamed up so I like to vent.
    For me his series has been a wonderful trove of statistics, presentation of past and current analysis, relay of thinkers and intellectual points of view that shaped the subject in the public fora towards its current form.

    I think it’s an art in making out the most from this type of comprehensive – term which I am not sure why you take it to imply an absolute truth being relayed; comprehensive adj. of broad scope or content; including all or much – data gathering like the one Noah put together and articles like his personally spare me dozens of hours of research and piecing together of information on the targeted subject. They act as a gateway.


    Oh and make no mistake, Will Wilkinson is a libertarian atheist. Those presentations are about as intellectual and secular as they can get. The one on Cognitive Citizenship links into your arguments against the OWS very well for example, even if it took place years ago.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO