Humbling courage

[Fragony]

A covered woman is nothing to me, I don't see them as human beings, they are just things. To me in her nakedness she shows me who she really is, she's anything but an object. It's tragic but also beautiful

[rory_20_uk]

Women as a cohort are focused on things. Their genetic programming is to get someone who can provide for them and their offspring.

Men as a cohort are focused on women. Their genetic programming is to get fertile, healthy women to have many, healthy offspring.

So, men are keen to flash symbols of their status around and women are keen to show no wrinkles.

[Nowake]

Humbling courage?
Oh come on Frag, she’s dum as a door
Hosa quoted Thomas Sowell yesterday, his words fit this situation perfectly:

The problem isn't that Johnny can't read. The problem isn't even that Johnny can't think. The problem is that Johnny doesn't know what thinking is; he confuses it with feeling.

Fact of the matter is, they’re on the verge of holding elections and the secularist Egyptians are fighting desperately for a big chunk of the electorate. I.e. the segment that holds progressive (not as defined in the US) economic views yet who are socially conservative and upon whom the Salafis were already very efficiently impressing the image of decadence that they claim would come along with a victory of non-religious parties. And with mere weeks to the election, this idiot takes her clothes off, a move the Salafis must’ve labelled as God-sent.

Currently there are only seven days left until the election (November 28^th) and the Liberals are banging their heads against the wall trying to do damage-control instead of focusing on their talking points.

To be so feeble-minded to trade putting your foot on the neck of some religious freak on the corridors of the Shura (the upper house of the Parliament, currently dissolved – together with the lower house – by the Army) ulterior to winning the election for the pleasure of punching the political party that supports your views in the gut prior to the vote is criminal.

Her action is sure to cause a loss of votes; nevermind that it would’ve been so much more poignant to undertake it after November 28^th, either to signal the new era, in case of a Liberal victory, or the defiance of the secularists in case of their electoral defeat.

I’ve dealt with my share of self-righteous activists of this sort, the always ready to trade the long-term political game because “they cannot remain silent NOW!”, to not know for a fact that all they deserve is to (figuratively) eat *expletive* and die

[Nowake]

I do understand your position.
Yet, in my personal opinion, it is well-meant and misinformed, noble and perverse, all at once
While I cannot go in depth because I have to raise up early tomorrow, I will hastily clarify my premise.


The crux of the matter is that Egypt doesn’t have a system asking people for their trust at all at the moment. The battle for its future rages precisely at this point in time.


Lets anchor ourselves in facts before we go ahead though.
The Army has established Martial Law since February and the only legal framework is established by its edicts. However, the Army will cede its power after the elections of November 28^th. Thus the direction the country will take in the next decades hangs in the balance.

Take a peek towards the Iranian revolution. It was not a Shiite affair exclusively. There were many secularists and even communists amongst the revolutionaries at the time and you can see their children today marching against the regime in Tehran. The end of the insurrection found the Ayatollahs in a very strong position however and, after the referendum put Khomeini in power, they dispensed with those children’s parents after the revolution succeeded to bring about what’s now thirty years of theocracy. Khomeini stated: “Do not use this term [democratic]. That is the Western style". There’s a very good book on the subject, Iran since the Revolution – the most telling quote: “what began as an authentic and anti-dictatorial popular revolution based on a broad coalition of all anti-Shah forces was soon transformed into an Islamic fundamentalist power-grab”.

The Salafis find themselves between a rock and a hard place in Egypt in the event they wish to attempt to eliminate their opposition in the same way. They do not have enough popular support to drown out the message of the Liberals and they cannot force their way into power because of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, which is basically the junta now leading Egypt under Mubarak’s ex-Defense Minister Tantawi. These military leaders sided with the population in February, dissolved the Parliament and dispensed with the Constitution – the first being populated by Mubarak’s straw-men and the Constitution upholding the old state of affairs of course – and they announced completely free and fair elections by the end of 2011. I won’t go into the details of why, suffice to say Mubarak’s dictatorship persecuted Muslims and Liberals in equal measure.

Thus the Salafis have to stake it all on this electoral process.
At this point in time, the Muslim Brotherhood backed Freedom and Justice Party sits at around ~30%, with the main Liberal party Wafd polling around ~25%. Other Salafis Parties like Nour hold around 10%, while there is a plethora of minor organizations, nostalgic of Nasser or led by the followers of Sadat (Mubarak’s predecessor) or etc. which would be inclined to side with Wafd and thus would equal the balance in a coalition government. 55% of the electorate declares itself undecided at this point and this is the segment they all attempt to cut themselves a large chunk out of.



The scandal this girl provoked in Egypt, blown out of proportion because of the attention and sympathy received from the western media, simply transformed her action into a major event of this election, outraging many of those 55% undecided voters. I’m all for her exercising her freedom and subsequently bask in the spotlight of interviews from CNN to the Ulan-Bator Herald, but to admire her action is wrong on so many counts; if the Salafis take power she may have contributed to the suffering of millions of her countrymen because she would not wait two weeks with updating her Twitter account.

While the Muslim Brotherhood has abstained from making the same declarations regarding their views on the future of Egypt as they were doing in the beginning, there is little doubt to an impartial observer that they will attempt to take control of the Army and establish Sharia Law – Egypt doesn’t have the Turkish Kemalist tradition, not to mention even that tradition succumbed earlier this year for good in the face of an Islamic movement.
And the reality is that those girls abused by Muslim Egyptian soldiers, who are now kept in check by a secular military structure, are about to find out what real rape means should the Muslims come to power; and they may have to thank our Magda for that. I find it hard to agree with the idea that a person condemning her folly is taking freedom for granted when, in fact, it may just be that the person in question realizes what it means to lose it.

Plus, there are hundred of thousands of secularist Egyptians who decided not to leave their country under Mubarak, protested, were imprisoned, had relatives murdered, fought in Tahrir Square during the demonstrations (which this girl avoided to do) and basically dedicated their life to snatching their society back from the forces of oppression. All of these understood the importance of maintaining a morally neutral discourse until after the elections, despite the fact that they had been far more oppressed than a girl of twenty who was never abused herself and was sent to University by her parents. Freedom is an emotional issue for these Egyptians as well, it may very well turn into a matter of life and death after the 28^th, yet this girl just spat upon their future graves and is overwhelmed by waves of admiration from a Western world which through this may be putting the last nail in the coffin of a democratic Egypt.

[Fragony]

Who seriously believes in Egyptian democracy, power doesn't negotiate over there. Women's rights are much more important and she shook things up good, doesn't have to be convenient on the short term, the whole mentality towards women must change. I like blunt instruments and she is one, delicate as she may be.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Who seriously believes in Egyptian democracy, power doesn't negotiate over there. Women's rights are much more important and she shook things up good, doesn't have to be convenient on the short term, the whole mentality towards women must change. I like blunt instruments and she is one, delicate as she may be.

That's really easy for you to say Fragony, because you don't have to deal with the fallout.

I am inclined to agree with Nowake on this.

CR

[Fragony]

That's really easy for you to say Fragony, because you don't have to deal with the fallout.

I am inclined to agree with Nowake on this.

CR

Hard to disagree with Nowake because everything he says is true, it isn't very constructive no. But a somewhat democratic Egypt will still be sexist Egypt, it's worth causing a little trouble over that. The 'revolution' is an excellent moment for some trolling.