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Thread: Gameroom discussion: Overpowered roles and game balance

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  1. #1
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gameroom discussion: Overpowered roles and game balance

    I hate lynch-avoidance roles except in very limited circumstances (I actually think a huge game like Capo has a lot more latitude for limited use of such things, simply because its size gives more opportunity for second chances). I'm not a fan of detectives and to a lesser extent town trackers/activity detectives, either. I have many fewer issues with roleblockers, town watchers, and the like. My basic criteria there is:

    -- if an oft-metagamed player has the capability of preventing early incriminating results being produced on them as mafia/third party without compromising their team, then all is well
    -- if not ... not.

    As an example, a mafia team of three is set up in a hierarchy with designated killer, roleblocker/backup killer, goon/backup roleblocker/third-chance killer. There is an activity tracker in the game for the town. What's the mafia team now to do, if the oft-metagamed player gets the #1 killer role? You can't not kill, so basically you're resigning yourself to losing one of your players right off the bat almost by default, and no matter how well you are all playing otherwise. Now imagine the same team re-imagined so any of the three mafia can do the kill on a given night; or with an untrackable team kill plus three minor powers. The problem evaporates, provided at least that the oft-metagamed player has access to a decent cover role to explain his minor-power activity once caught (or the powers are so minor that non-use is not crippling).

    That brings me to the other big gripe I have in playing (and generally losing) mafia roles: lack of (good) cover for the mafia. Without a strong canon source it's not as important; without a very powerful town it's not as important -- but generally as games are played around here some effort needs to be made in that regard so it doesn't turn into "lynch everybody without a good name claim/lynch all the vanillas/everyone without a verifiable night power is mafia".

  2. #2
    Member Member classical_hero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gameroom discussion: Overpowered roles and game balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    That brings me to the other big gripe I have in playing (and generally losing) mafia roles: lack of (good) cover for the mafia. Without a strong canon source it's not as important; without a very powerful town it's not as important -- but generally as games are played around here some effort needs to be made in that regard so it doesn't turn into "lynch everybody without a good name claim/lynch all the vanillas/everyone without a verifiable night power is mafia".
    That is what i think is the biggest gripe about mafia, not the roles that could be "overpowered". Part of mafia is the ability to bluff your way out of situations where you might be in trouble. If you are a game where the characters are known, then you must give a cover role otherwise it is impossible to be the mafia.

    I don't think that there is an overpowered role, just when you get good co-ordination between some factions then roles become extra powerful by the total effect of other power roles coming together. I think to be perfectly honest I don't believe that a role can really be overpowered, unless they cannot be killed full stop and there is no way of removing that player. Basically mafia is about co-ordination and trust, but can you really trust the person you are working with, should be at the forefront of any game.

  3. #3
    Prodigy of Paarthurnax Member Skooma Addict's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gameroom discussion: Overpowered roles and game balance

    I would like to hear some opinions/advice on how recruitment can be implemented into games without it becoming an overwhelming and disheartening opposition. Cults and mafia recruiting is something I would like to use without worry of imbalance and unfairness to the town players. I've played games where the cult would be lynched during the day, and the deceased is immediately replaced the following night which essentially is a free day kill for the cult. I like the idea of using a base percentage, or restricting recruitment to specific nights.

  4. #4
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gameroom discussion: Overpowered roles and game balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Skooma Addict View Post
    I would like to hear some opinions/advice on how recruitment can be implemented into games without it becoming an overwhelming and disheartening opposition. Cults and mafia recruiting is something I would like to use without worry of imbalance and unfairness to the town players. I've played games where the cult would be lynched during the day, and the deceased is immediately replaced the following night which essentially is a free day kill for the cult. I like the idea of using a base percentage, or restricting recruitment to specific nights.
    Recruitment of any kind is going to pose balance issues, but I think the greatest problems are when recruitment is unlimited. I think the best recruitment systems are those that only let the recruiter recruit a limited number of times and from a limited pool of candidates. Combine such limits with night actions to find the recruit candidates, and the system then balances the advantages of recruiting by making the recruiter give up multiple night actions to find, and recruit, their new people. These kinds of limited recruitment systems have been used successfully in many games without unbalancing them in favor of the recruiter.

    Cults are a bit of a different problem. I don't really like them because I don't think they're much fun. A true cult (as opposed to a mafia faction with recruitment abilities) is basically an alternate town trying to supplant the original town. I don't really see much entertainment value in that. No one really wants to be part of town B instead of town A. If there's a desirable role change, it's to the mafia, not just some other group you vote with.


  5. #5
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gameroom discussion: Overpowered roles and game balance

    what is a busdriver role?

    We do not sow.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gameroom discussion: Overpowered roles and game balance

    It switches out two people basically, so instead of using an ability on one person it will use it on the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  7. #7
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gameroom discussion: Overpowered roles and game balance

    And vice versa. Most notoriously (ahem), it was used in YLC's aborted-but-epic Lovecraft-themed game to bypass the built-in protector that my role had. Andres used a busdriver power on me and some other random player, then killed the other player while my protector (Double A) was protecting me. The protection went to the other guy, the kill went to me, pow I'm dead. He never needed to know who my protector was.

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