Considering Ptolomai campaign at some point

[Sapper]

I have never played the Ptolemioi and it wouldn't surprise me if many others have not as well considering they always seem to dominate the AS in my experience and well, they are comparatively easy to play. However, I can say this about their troops from fighting them in campaign but also from multiplayer experiences. Recruitment is a little more difficult for them since they use Machimoi Phalangites as their levy and these are only available in Egypt, not sure about the Levant. Otherwise their armies are similar to AS with three exceptions: far different auxiliaries based on their starting regions, lack of superheavy cavalry, and different elites. The Basilikon Agema I actually prefer to the typical Hellenistic elites because they have an AP secondary attack but you will regret the fact that they are only retrainable in Egypt. Those missions to Macedonia and Babylon won't be nearly as fruitful unit-wise for the Ptollies as they might for other Hellenic factions. You will also lean heavily on Galatikoi Klerouchoi for good reason. They are one of the best heavy infantry units in the game; basically Neitos on steroids. Ptollie cavalry is good but not as good as AS. Comparative to Makedonia and Epeiros I would say as their Agema cavalry is relatively useful but again limited recruitment-wise. This being said, Ptollies can get decent auxiliaries like Iudioi, Machimoi, and Ethiopian Archers. Just don't expect the dominant auxiliaries that the AS gets access to such as Dahae horse archers or Guild Warriors.

With all due respect to Sir Robin I think you should be careful in taking the advice of someone who freely admits he has never actually played the Ptolomaioi. I have played them a number of times and I feel that they are certainly worth considering. However, before looking at the strategic aspects, Sir Robin makes some good points about Ptolomaioi units and I would like to add my halfpenny worth to that first.

The Ptolomaioi are of course Diadochi and therefore their unit list has all the usual suspects of Hellenic troops plus Makadonian style phalangists but there are some interesting variations, and not just in elites. So that you get Red Sea Hoplites as well as Galatian Heavy Swordsmen and Native Egyptian Cavalry, which are pretty good. The Machimoi Phalangites and the Ptolomaic Elite Phalanxes can indeed only be recruited in Egypt, but so what? Isn't that realistic? When playing any of the Diadochi the core of my "everyday" armies are largely Klerouchoi Phalangitai and Thorakitai anyway and the Ptolomaioi can recruit these as widely as anyone else. As regards heavy cavalry you do get Ptolomaic Heavy Cavalry which although not quite as good as Lonchophoroi Hippies are pretty good and do look cool. The Ptolomaic Royal Guard are an excellent Hoplite like unit. Finally, access to Ethiopia and Arabia allows for some very interesting and useful auxiliaries plus elephants.

Strategically the Ptolomaioi are quite well placed. They have a rich and secure base in the Nile Valley and a number of rebel settlements close by ripe for conquest. However, war with the AS is almost inevitable (almost, but see below!) and Side and Tarsos are dead meat as a result. Carthage will fall out with you over Kyrene at some point too. The war with the AS can be fun and is certainly demanding, depending on the level you play on. Capturing Antiocheia early is a given I believe and the real problem then becomes the inability to end the war (without Forced Diplomacy) anywhere short of complete conquest of the AS. In most of my campaigns I have ended up being drawn further and further into the AS and not necessarily in directions I would have chosen to go. Fighting the same types of troops over and over again can get a bit tedious too.

In my latest campaign I decided to have a change. I retrenched at the outset (aka retreated!), allowing Side and Tarsos to go and gave both Sidon and Hierosolyma to Carthage, which they eventually accepted. Result - no border with the AS, and peace! I then concentrated on expanding to the south, the rebel elephants in Ethiopia were great fun to fight, Akontistai proving to be useful after all! Then I invaded Arabia, in the process finding out you cannot build ships in any of your Red Sea ports but the Nile Canal allows ships to move down from the Med. Its now 229BC, I am finally at war with Carthage and on my way to take Lepki, and still at peace with the AS. My plan is to conquer Arabia and then sail to India eventually taking on the AS through Persia. I am fighting a lot of different troop types and also getting access to new auxiliaries. As a Diadochi its good to be fighting Carthage for a change and I am also looking forward to India as I had great fun there in a previous Baktria campaign.

My advice would be to give the Ptolomaioi a go, they have everything a Diadochi has to offer plus some interesting variations in units and geography and some different enemies.

[athanaric]

My plan is to conquer Arabia and then sail to India eventually taking on the AS through Persia. I am fighting a lot of different troop types and also getting access to new auxiliaries. As a Diadochi its good to be fighting Carthage for a change and I am also looking forward to India as I had great fun there in a previous Baktria campaign.

Ptolemaioi recruitment options in India are not nearly as good as those of the AS, Saka, Baktria, Pahlava, or Saba, though.

[Nightmare]

You should join the EB Metal Heads group.

We'll do! Thanks!

So I started a Baktria campaign. Took a look around the map, and any neutral cities around just seemed way too heavily-garrisoned and too far away to go that route. So I split my starting army up into two groups. Sent one north and took two Selucid cities there (the ones that look like Saka tribal cities) and one south and took about 3 Selucid cities all in a line.

That's about all I've done so far. Am I doing this right?

[Sapper]

We'll do! Thanks!

So I started a Baktria campaign. Took a look around the map, and any neutral cities around just seemed way too heavily-garrisoned and too far away to go that route. So I split my starting army up into two groups. Sent one north and took two Selucid cities there (the ones that look like Saka tribal cities) and one south and took about 3 Selucid cities all in a line.

That's about all I've done so far. Am I doing this right?

Looks good to me. Baktria is one of those factions where attacking the rebels first is not optimal. You are always going to get into a war with AS so do it on your terms. My advice is to make Baktra as strong as you can, the AS will attack it at every oportunity, build mines as soon as you can too, and Kophen should be the first rebel city you take for just that purpose, and get into India because its rich. Also, plan to be fighting the AS for ever because without resorting to forced diplomacy you are doomed to do so.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I did this before as AS when I took Egypt so I think the same would work for Ptollies. Leave Cyrene rebel and instead build a few forts in the gaps between mountains and the sea around the city so that Carthage can't fit any armies in that way. They won't attack you since you don't share a border and instead will stand there and eventually wander off. It will cost about 1500 a turn in Pantodapoi or Akontistai upkeep, something you may come close to recouping through trade with Carthage's cities themselves. It also allows you to focus solely in one direction; for my AS empire that was into Greece, for the Ptollies that would be against the AS.

[Nightmare]

Looks good to me. Baktria is one of those factions where attacking the rebels first is not optimal. You are always going to get into a war with AS so do it on your terms. My advice is to make Baktra as strong as you can, the AS will attack it at every oportunity, build mines as soon as you can too, and Kophen should be the first rebel city you take for just that purpose, and get into India because its rich. Also, plan to be fighting the AS for ever because without resorting to forced diplomacy you are doomed to do so.

By the way, Sapper, thanks for those words on the Ptolemai campaign. Will definitely give them a whirl too.

I always plan on fighting the AS forever anytime I'm anywhere near them. That never changes. Also, I never use forced diplomacy because I don't even have the mod which allows that.

[moonburn]

with the baktrians i use the clam aproach i take marakanda and gava haomavarga with proper usage of the lower level phalangitai and then go for kophen the saka are hard to kill but they are diplomatically weaklings so you can normally get peace and a few setlements aslong as you´re not at war with anyone else (i got sulek like that and was able to break their nomadic alliance no allies and having to fight you while they´re your only enemy turns them into pushovers) ofc once you go to war with the seulekids you´re screwed everyone will turn on you i normally do an anphibean attack land around charax and go for babylonia seulekeia and antiocheia once those mics are destroyed and those cities sacked and with every single last building destroying the seulekids can no longer send at you their elites and you get the money needed for the mine upgrades

[Nightmare]

So I started up a Selucid campaign just so I can get a look at the start position. I must say I'm not used to running such a huge empire right at the start - my previous campaigns include such massive starting empires as Casse and Koinon Hellenon!

At any rate, hypothetically-speaking, were I to take the "advice" (cough) of some and contemplate starting up such a campaign as the evil Arche Selukids (NOT SAYING I WOULD!), could you throw me some opening moves or strats (cover several), some things to watch out for, some pitfalls, some inevitable things that are gonna happen, etc? My guess is, blitz someone if possible (Pahlva, Pontos, etc), or pull back to a defensive position?

Just off the top of my head, it looks like those 2 small towns bordering the Saka are gonna be toast sooner rather than later. For me, were I to make an opening move now (NOT SAYING I WILL!) I'd probably pull all the garrison troops, destroy whatever buildings I could, raise taxes to 100%, and watch the fireworks from afar. Comments? What say you?

Next thing I'm noticing is the Pahlva breathing down my neck at the city bordering his lands. Don't know if it's possible to scrape together enough forces from the hinterlands to send over there in time or not. My first guess is pull most of the garisson, leaving 1 cheap unit there, and see what could arrive from other cities within the next several turns? What say you?

I guess the 3rd and 4th things to deal with in the open would be Pontos and Egypt. Don't really have many ideas there except "send troops from within to those borders."

Unlike some campaigns, looks like this one could be one starting out as "pull back, lick your wounds, shore up some defenses, and proceed from there?" Retrenchment!

Your thoughts?

[athanaric]

We'll do! Thanks!

So I started a Baktria campaign. Took a look around the map, and any neutral cities around just seemed way too heavily-garrisoned and too far away to go that route. So I split my starting army up into two groups. Sent one north and took two Selucid cities there (the ones that look like Saka tribal cities) and one south and took about 3 Selucid cities all in a line.

That's about all I've done so far. Am I doing this right?

No. The Saka will attack you.
But you can still win the campaign. Just make sure to garrison your two northern cities with some archers and/or slingers and spearmen (preferrably Parthian Spearmen). Persian Archers, Persian Archer-Spearmen, Eastern Slingers or Hellenic Slingers are good, but don't use Toxotai. They look nice but are almost useless against the Saka.
Also try to build stone walls in your frontier cities, to provide better platforms for your missile troops.

It was a good idea though to send the other army south. You should be able to defeat the Seleukids there, moreso if you can keep your alliance with Parthia.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Ptolemaioi recruitment options in India are not nearly as good as those of the AS, Saka, Baktria, Pahlava, or Saba, though.

I don't think India is part of the Ptolemy victory conditions, though, so I guess Ptolemies don't really need good recruitment there. There's always mercs.

[Ca Putt]

For baktria:

North - dangerous
East - Ideal
South - good
West - DO NOT GO WEST!

at least not at first, or if you cant resist, you will have to whipe out the Pajama Pahlavi quick but they generally dislike you, when you take antiochia margiane, or however that temptingly close settlement to the west is called. War with the Seleucids comes either way, the saka are a very likely enemy but the Pahlava are not likely to attack you if you leave your hands of that city. Afterall that would rob you of all the fun you'd have fighting them Cataphract vs Cataphract^^