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Thread: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

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    Mmmm, Antares is tasty! Senior Member Alien Attack Champion Nightbringer's Avatar
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    Default Lords of the Danube OOC thread



    Here is a brief summary of the overall structure of the game.

    Each players funds will be tracked separately. They will receive income equal to whatever settlement they own, and pay for whatever forces they control. Each player would declare their expenses, and the sum income of their provinces, and keep a tab of their funds each time they submit their save. Players who go into debt may risk having soldiers in their pay rebel, depending on the amount and length of the dept.

    Any characters without a province may be adopted by another player, who will pay all of their expenses. If no player adopts them, they will have no income, and will have to earn a title if they wish to support troops. They may still be put in charge of troops if another player allows it.

    Currently, every character but one control's a province, and the King controls two. This leftover character would count as "adopted" by the King (although the King player may cancel this if he wishes), and could be given control of either of the two provinces the King controls if the King wishes it so.

    As for the setting, the game is starting in 1222, the year Hungarian nobles historically forced the King to sign the Golden Bull. This was the result of a short uprising, and effectively gave the Hungarian nobility much greater freedom from the King. I intend to create several rebel armies in Hungarian lands to represent the leftovers of this revolt, and the player characters represent appeased, although not necessarily happy, nobles who have re-aligned with the King now that he has signed this bull.

    Also significant, Hungary has just recently liberated Constantinople from the Cuman Khanate, part of their long war with the Pagan nation. The city is currently under de-facto ownership of the King, as the general who captured the city died in the siege without leaving a clear heir, but it is a prize that is certainly worth argument for. I hope that this, the remnants of the civil war, and the war with the Cumans should provide plenty to keep people busy right from the start.


    There are currently 3 characters available for new players to join


    Phonicsmonkey -King Bokeny
    Groef of Belgrade, Groef of Varad, Groef of Taregoviste
    Titles: King, Lord High Marshall
    Agents: Cardinal Vid a Bogatradvany nembol, Princesses Adelhaid the Affectionate, Judit a Kacsics Nembol, Adelaide a Buzad nembol, and Gertrud a Buzad nembol,
    Cardinal Levente az Oguz nembol, Bishop Kaplony a Kan nembol, Merchant Katapan a Szentemagucs nembol, Merchant Bojta a Huntpaznan nembol


    Zim - Demeter az Aba nembol
    Groef of Kassa, Groef of Halych
    Titles: Master of the Treasury, Heir Apparent, Victor in the Tournament
    Agents: Bishop Bank a Turje nembol

    SeruGiran - Andras a Zah nembol
    Count of Sofia
    Titles: none
    Agents: none

    Mithridate - Bokony a Huntpaznan nembol
    Count of Brasov, Count of Baia
    Titles: Palatine, holder of the Privy Seal
    Agents: Bishop Lambert az Opor nembol

    The-King - Kerecsea Geregye nembol
    Count of Zagreb
    Titles: Master of Horse
    Agents: none

    Vata a Kacsics nembol
    Vassal of the King
    Titles: none
    Agents: none

    Petur az Akuz nembol
    Vassal of the King
    Titles: none
    Agents: none

    Kuppany a Kan nembol
    Vassal of the King
    Titles: none
    Agents: none

    Bokeny a Hanhold nembol
    Vassal of Bokony a Huntpaznan nembol
    Titles: none
    Agents: none


    Suggested Format for End of Turn Reports
    You may use any format you desire, but here is one possible way of doing it. (brackets denote variable)
    Quote Originally Posted by nightbringer
    Starting money = [Funds at start of turn]

    Income
    [list of incomes from provinces]
    [list of incomes from merchants]
    [list of incomes from diplomatic deals]
    [income from purse (2000 for King, 500 for Junior King, 300 for nobles)]

    Total Income = [x]

    Expenses
    [list of units recruited (with costs)]
    [list of buildings constructed (with costs)]
    [list of agents recruited (with costs)]
    [total upkeep for all existing units]
    [total upkeep for all existing agents]
    [list of all diplomatic payments]

    Total Expenses = [y]

    Ending Funds =
    [total income (x)] - [total expenses(y)]

    Disbanded Units
    [List of all disbanded units]

    Gifted Items
    [List of all units, provinces, or agents given to another player (along with player given to)]
    Enemies
    The Cuman Khanate
    The Fatimid Caliphate
    The Golden Horde

    Allies
    The Republic of Genoa
    The Kingdom of Denmark
    The Grand Duchy of Kiev


    Game Rules

    1. Mod and Game Settings

    1.1 Stainless Steel 6.4
    1.1a Early Era Campaign
    1.1b Savage Ai
    1.2 Very Hard Battles
    1.3 Very Hard Campaign
    1.4 Manage all Settlements
    1.5 Defensive Battles Enabled
    1.6 Battle Timer On
    1.7 Hotseat Game

    2. General Rules
    2.1 Transported units may not exceed 2 times the number of ships in the fleet
    2.2 “Merchant forts” may not be used
    2.3 Agents may be destroyed by surrounding them with armies (represents extensive military operation to root out and kill the agent. Be warned, the GM shall ensure that other factions react to this as a hostile action
    2.4 Do not exploit the naval movement bug

    3. The Game Master
    3.1 Nightbringer is the Game Master (GM)
    3.2 If Nightbringer can no longer be the GM, or if >50% of the players vote for him to step down, a new GM may be chosen by player vote
    3.3 The GM will not take control of a character
    3.4 The GM has the right to (and likely will) exert any amount of control deemed appropriate over non-player factions in the game

    4. The Save
    4.1 Only the GM may end the turn, unless permission is specifically given to a player.
    4.2 The save shall be named in the following format: game name_turn #_# of players who have played turn
    4.3 Players shall have 48 hours to player their turn after the save has been uploaded
    4.4 The GM shall have 24 hours after this to return the save to the players
    4.5 A player shall have 24 hours to play any defensive battles
    4.6 After playing a defensive battle, the player must save the game immediately and return the save to the GM
    4.6a Due to the lack of turn scrolls, a faction’s turn may begin after a defensive battle, if this is the case, the player should not take any action or look at this faction’s position. Doing so will only decrease that player’s enjoyment of the game.

    Player Rules
    5. Role-play

    5.1 Players are encouraged, but not required, to write battle reports and other in context (IC) stories
    5.2 Players should post only IC posts in IC threads
    5.3 Players should post only out of context (OOC) posts in OOC threads
    5.4 Lies and other “immoral actions” performed IC should not be held against the player, and should be regarded as purely the action of their character

    6. Battles
    6.1 Players should play out all battles since auto resolve may be used to exploit horse archer armies, or prevent general death
    6.2 Players should refrain from using Ai exploits as much as possible, this will not be enforced, but using exploits will only serve to break player immersion in the game

    7. Finances
    7.1 The faction money total should be ignored, if more money is required to meet individual finances, the GM shall add it
    7.2 No money is owned by the faction
    7.3 Every character has a personal supply of money
    7.4 A character’s money supply is determined as such
    7.4a At the beginning of the game, each character starts with 1000 florins.
    7.4b Any new character will start with 1000 florins
    7.4c During the turn, the cost of any unit, ship, agent, or building recruited/constructed by a character will be deducted from that characters funds
    7.4d At the end of every turn, the total upkeep of all units, ships, and agents a character owns and the cost of any deals/agreements will be deducted from that character’s funds
    7.4e At the end of every turn, the total income from all provinces a character owns, the income from any merchants that character owns, and their income from any deals/agreements will be added to that character’s funds
    7.4f The King also adds a King’s purse of 2000 to their income
    7.4g The Junior King also adds a Junior King's purse of 500 to their income
    7.4h Nobles also add a noble's purse of 300 to their income
    7.4i If a character’s funds would drop into the negative they instead stay at zero
    7.7 If a player fails to deliver a report, the GM will do it for them, but repeated offence may be grounds for expulsion from the game
    7.8 Each player must declare where their money is kept, this may be either a province or with their character, this location may be changed at the end of any turn (unless it is within a besieged province)
    7.9 If the province where a character keeps their money belongs to another player, that player may seize the entire sum whenever desired
    7.10 If the province where a character keeps their money is captured by an enemy faction, 75% of the money is lots, while the other 25% is allocated to a new location by that character’s player
    7.11 If a character who is keeping their money with them is defeated in battle, 50% of their money is lost.
    7.12 Any financial deals with other factions must be paid by characters, but the expenses can be divided as desired between characters.
    7.13 If a character refuses to pay their part of a deal with another faction, the GM will ensure that the faction responds appropriately to the lack of payment.
    7.14 Any character may make private deals with other factions through the GM
    7.15 Characters may transfer money between each-other as desired according to the following rules
    7.15a The player giving money deducts the transferred money from their funds in their end of turn financial report
    7.16b The player who is receiving money adds that to their income in their end of turn financial report
    7.16c This means that the receiving player is not able to see this money till their next turn
    7.16 Each player is responsible for delivering an accurate report of their finances to the GM every turn, either in private or in public when they post the save
    7.17 Units that are garrisoned which would normally have free upkeep (as defined by the game) also do for the purposes of this game.

    8. Property
    8.1 Nothing is owned by the faction
    8.2 Every province, unit, ship, and agent is owned by a single character
    8.2a Anything owned by a character may only be controlled by that character’s player, unless that player gives express permission to another
    8.3 Provinces, units, ships, and agents will be allocated to characters at the start of the game by the GM
    8.4 Units, agents, ships, and buildings may only be recruited/built in a province by the owner of that province, from that character’s personal funds
    8.5 Units, agents, and ships recruited in a province are owned by that province’s owner
    8.5a Any recruited, adopted, or born generals become the property their adoptee, recruiter, or oldest male relative, or of the King if this is not possible to determine, until they are controlled by a player
    8.6 The owner of a province may allow another character to recruit/build in his province, or to take ownership of units built in that province
    8.7 A character may only recruit/build as much as he has funds to pay for
    8.8 A character may only recruit a number of agents equal to the number his provinces support (i.e., a character owning 1 province with 1 church may only recruit a single priest)
    8.9 Each player is responsible for keeping track of which units, agents, ships, and provinces belong to him/her, any disputes will be resolved by GM decree
    8.10 The owner of any unit, ship, or agent, is responsible for paying the upkeep of that unit/ship/agent
    8.11 If the owner is unable to pay the upkeep for units during a turn, the GM has the right to take any action with these units between turns, and may remove or give ownership of the unit/ship/agent as wished
    8.12 The owner of any unit, ship, agent, or province may transfer that property to another player in their end of turn financial report, as per the rules for money transfer
    8.13 Any new settlements conquered become property of the character whose troops (or agent, if bribe) conquered this settlement
    8.14 Any bribed troops become the property of that diplomat’s owner
    8.15 Princesses are automatically the property (in game rules only, not in an ethical sense) of their oldest male relative, or of the King if this is not possible to determine.
    8.16 Property can be disbanded or destroyed at the will of its owner, but must be noted in the end of tun report.
    8.16a When a player disbands units during a civil war, the GM will declare that units were disbanded at the end of that turn, and players may bid to gain the service of these units (the GM may announce that they are a single item, or they may be divided into several smaller items to be bid on). The GM will set a secret minimum price, and the highest bidder over this price will have the units added to their army. Bids must be received 24 hours after the end of the turn to be counted, meaning that bids must be entered before the next turn begins.

    In context rules
    These rules are all to be regarded as in context, and may be broken by players at will, with only in context consequences as penalty


    Currently existing Titles

    The Palatine (in game, Lord High Chancellor)
    The principal manager of the King's properties (no game effect), and the judge of legal matters among the nobility.
    They are chosen by the King. Aside from being a high honor, this position allows the character to be the final decider in all IC legal matters. However, they would only have the right to impose penalties on the nobility with the explicit permission of the King.

    Lord High Marshall
    The chief commander of Hungary's armies. They are chosen by the King. This man is responsible for co-ordination of all Hungarian military efforts, and, if supported by more than half the nobility, may legalize the capture of any territory.

    Master of the Horse
    This man oversees the Kingdoms horse breeding and the appointment of cavalry officers. They are chosen by the Lord High Marshall. This title gives the character a slight chance of having any cavalry unit owned by an enemy turn over to him in the event of a civil war. This reflects the intimate relationships the Master of the Horse has with cavalry officers. (% chance of occurring for each unit = ((commands *s of character - command *s of unit owner) x 5). Other than this, this title has no in game effect.

    Master of the Treasury (no ancillary representation)
    This man is responsible for ensuring that the economy of Hungary runs smoothly, and does not leave certain critical areas underfunded. They are chosen by the King. This title makes the character responsible for overseeing financial deals between characters and with other factions, and for proposing such dealings when deemed necessary for the good of the Realm. This title allows the character to propose and accept financial deals with other factions if supported by more than half the nobility.

    Lord Privy Seal
    This man bears the private seal of the King, and is chosen by the King. This title is a great honor the King may bestow upon a character, and the title only exists when the King wishes it to. However, their is no direct benefit of having this title.

    Laws of the Realm

    I. The Noblemen are declared to be exempt from the payment of taxes, nor will money be collected from their treasures. Neither will their residences be occupied, nor their villages, and these may only be visited by those who have been invited. No taxes will be levied on the Church.

    II. If any nobleman dies without a male heir, his daughter will receive a quarter of his funds (disappear from game); the remainder of his property shall pass into the hands of his closest living relative; if this is not possible, then the King shall inherit them.

    III. If the King wishes to send his armies outside of the Kingdom the Noblemen will not be under obligation to go with him, if the monarch doesn't pay them. However if an invading army enters in the Kingdom, all of them must serve to expel it.

    IV. The Hungarian Palatine may judge everyone in the Kingdom without any differentiation; but he cannot try any nobleman without the King's approval.

    V. Hungarian properties cannot be given to foreigners.

    VI. No title (offices, not dukedoms or the like) or public charge can be inherited.

    VII. No character may hold more than a single title.

    VIII. No settlement may be taken without the permission of the King.

    IX. No war may be started without the permission of the King.

    X. No financial deals with other factions may be made without the permission of the King.

    XI No man may lay claim to a settlement unless it is given to him by the King.




    Q and A

    Q. Can I disband units freely?

    A. Yes (as long as they are your property), but please inform me of the units you disband in your end of turn report. Also, if there is a civil war going on, I think I would implement a system were other players could attempt to bribe these units. (I would estimate an amount based o the unit when you disband them, and interested players could send bids to me. If they meet the amount, the highest bidder would have the unit added to their army.)


    Q. If we attack a neutral faction, do you leave the AI to do it's decision making or do you take command of them to do what makes sense (like hitting an undefended city of ours etc.)?

    A. That depends on the situation, but I will say that I am not going to inform you guys which factions I am controlling. I will likely exert some influence on numerous factions, and complete control in few cases, but you should regard all enemy factions as truly dangerous and capable of strategic thinking beyond the ability of the game ai.
    Also, I think I should note that when I take control of ai factions it will be in order to make them behave more rationally and realistically, not to make them perfect strategists. My goal with controlling other factions is not to kill off the player faction, but to present it with a more reasonable challenge which behaves in a manner consistent with IC role-play between this faction and others.

    Q. Are units garrisoned in castles/cities upkeep costs free?

    A. Yes, units that are garrisoned which would normally have free upkeep (as defined by the game) also do for the purposes of this game.

    Q. If someone needs my facilities to recruit something and I ok it, can they just be queued and then that person pays for it? Or do I have to spend my own money and then get paid when I transfer the troops?

    A. It can be queued and that person pays for it.

    Q. Is income available to be used on the current term, ie. if I start a turn with 1000, and have an income of 2000, can I spend 3000 this turn?

    A. Yes, income is available for spending on the current turn.
    Last edited by Nightbringer; 04-19-2012 at 07:37.
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  2. #2
    Mmmm, Antares is tasty! Senior Member Alien Attack Champion Nightbringer's Avatar
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    Default RE: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    and here is the save for the first turn.
    As we are just starting, and so players can get their bearings, this first turn will have a maximum time limit of 72 hours from this post.

    and please remember, do not end the turn, I will do that after all players have taken their moves.
    Last edited by phonicsmonkey; 01-12-2012 at 04:59.
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    "Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is." ― Oscar Wilde
    “While money can't buy happiness, it certainly lets you choose your own form of misery.” ― Groucho Marx

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    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    EDIT: and here it is back

    Got the subforum up and running now so feel free to start a new OOC game thread (use the new prefix LotD) and I'll move it (and the IC thread) in there and also move posts from this thread (rules, character starting positions, saves) into the new one
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by phonicsmonkey; 01-12-2012 at 04:59.
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    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Taking le save.

    Questions:

    1. can we hold off on moving our characters/armies until we hold the first meeting of the nobility? It is very important for us to decide our attitude towards Venice and the ERE.

    2. Can I disband units freely?

    3. If we attack a neutral faction, do you leave the AI to do it's decision making or do you take command of them to do what makes sense (like hitting an undefended city of ours etc.)?
    Last edited by phonicsmonkey; 01-12-2012 at 05:00.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    1. can we hold off on moving our characters/armies until we hold the first meeting of the nobility? It is very important for us to decide our attitude towards Venice and the ERE.
    Seconded.
    Last edited by phonicsmonkey; 01-12-2012 at 05:00.

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    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    1. can we hold off on moving our characters/armies until we hold the first meeting of the nobility? It is very important for us to decide our attitude towards Venice and the ERE.
    This seems like an IC question that we should discuss in the IC thread. Why not post there as the King and make a request?
    Last edited by phonicsmonkey; 01-12-2012 at 05:00.
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    Mmmm, Antares is tasty! Senior Member Alien Attack Champion Nightbringer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    Taking le save.

    Questions:

    1. can we hold off on moving our characters/armies until we hold the first meeting of the nobility? It is very important for us to decide our attitude towards Venice and the ERE.

    2. Can I disband units freely?

    3. If we attack a neutral faction, do you leave the AI to do it's decision making or do you take command of them to do what makes sense (like hitting an undefended city of ours etc.)?
    Q 1. This does indeed seem like an IC issue to me.

    Q 2. Yes (as long as they are your property), but please inform me of the units you disband in your end of turn report. Also, if there is a civil war going on, I think I would implement a system were other players could attempt to bribe these units. (I would estimate an amount based o the unit when you disband them, and interested players could send bids to me. If they meet the amount, the highest bidder would have the unit added to their army.)

    Q 3. That depends on the situation, but I will say that I am not going to inform you guys which factions I am controlling. I will likely exert some influence on numerous factions, and complete control in few cases, but you should regard all enemy factions as truly dangerous and capable of strategic thinking beyond the ability of the game ai.
    Also, I think I should note that when I take control of ai factions it will be in order to make them behave more rationally and realistically, not to make them perfect strategists. My goal with controlling other factions is not to kill off the player faction, but to present it with a more reasonable challenge which behaves in a manner consistent with IC role-play between this faction and others.
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    "Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is." ― Oscar Wilde
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    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    No, I meant, can NB not enforce the 72 hour limit on the save until we get our first session? We can't afford to have armies just sitting around but the first turn is what will decide our actions for the next 10-15 or so turns.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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    Mmmm, Antares is tasty! Senior Member Alien Attack Champion Nightbringer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    No, I meant, can NB not enforce the 72 hour limit on the save until we get our first session? We can't afford to have armies just sitting around but the first turn is what will decide our actions for the next 10-15 or so turns.
    I can extend it another day or so for the first turn, especially since it seems to be taking a little time for people to get started.

    I also sent out a couple of pms to other people who might be interested that I just thought of, so we might see another player or two, which gives more reason to let this first turn go long while people get oriented.
    Last edited by Nightbringer; 01-12-2012 at 11:18.
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    “Being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment after you are dead.” ― Kurt Vonnegut
    "Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge." ― Mark Twain
    "Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is." ― Oscar Wilde
    “While money can't buy happiness, it certainly lets you choose your own form of misery.” ― Groucho Marx

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    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Ignoramus and Cecil both have stated they love such games, do they know we started?
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    I'll shoot them pms as well.
    Moderator of The Throne Room
    “Being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment after you are dead.” ― Kurt Vonnegut
    "Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge." ― Mark Twain
    "Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is." ― Oscar Wilde
    “While money can't buy happiness, it certainly lets you choose your own form of misery.” ― Groucho Marx

  12. #12
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    For this image I decided to do something I reserved for pictures of girls I like. Namely, I made the SS screenshot look as if it was painted with oils. I rather like how it turned out:

    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

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    Mmmm, Antares is tasty! Senior Member Alien Attack Champion Nightbringer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    I like the image a lot, it just looks so cheerful. Thanks Myth!
    I do have a couple of critiques though.
    The units in the image itself just feel a little too heavily armored for this point in the game to me. Do you have a screenshot with cloth barding for the general?

    Also, I would like to see what it would look like with the game name moved to the top, as their is currently a lot of blue up their, while much of the pretty green grass down below is covered.


    Also, I got a question about garrison unit upkeep.

    Units that are garrisoned which would normally have free upkeep (as defined by the game) also do for the purposes of this game.
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  14. #14
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    These are Hungarian Royal Banderium knights. I think they appear later, probably around the full plate or gothic plate events (which I never actually got to in a SS game, who plays for 300 turns anyway..) They look much better than the hungarian nobles however (the nobles are horse archers dressed as a cross between merchants and 18th century pilgrims). I especially like the bright red Hungarian flag in the middle.

    The text was original in the upper left hand side but it looks horrible when plopped on the blue sky and I can't find a colour for it that doesn't look horrible there.
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    Mmmm, Antares is tasty! Senior Member Alien Attack Champion Nightbringer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    What about feudal knights? As I recall the Hungarian one's of those look pretty cool.
    As to the text location, it isn't a big deal so I will trust you that it didn't work with the sky.
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    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    The problem is that in order for me to recreate the image with a different unit I have to

    1. Get the same angle
    2. Get the same terrain
    3. Get the same nice hill, patches of grass and daisies
    4. Get the same sunshine
    5. Make the SS, retouch it with pthotoshop
    6. Then retouch it with Corel Painter to make it look painted (this is the tricky part as you can never make the same thing twice)

    Overall that's a lot of IFs and probably the end result won't look as nice. I chose these knights because their shiny metallic armour gives off a nice contrast when so much detail is lost in the oil canvas approximation. The Hungarian Nobles or other knights have much darker textures and when retouched like this they don't look very nice. I have other SSs, most of which include a river, but I like the composition and colours of this one too much, otherwise I'd have included the river for sure. Overall, this is an artistic image, it's not here to bring accurate information for the game, but rather a feeling. BTW Gerneral's Bodyguard units are just as armoured, they just have barding on their horses.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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    Mmmm, Antares is tasty! Senior Member Alien Attack Champion Nightbringer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    The problem is that in order for me to recreate the image with a different unit I have to

    1. Get the same angle
    2. Get the same terrain
    3. Get the same nice hill, patches of grass and daisies
    4. Get the same sunshine
    5. Make the SS, retouch it with pthotoshop
    6. Then retouch it with Corel Painter to make it look painted (this is the tricky part as you can never make the same thing twice)

    Overall that's a lot of IFs and probably the end result won't look as nice. I chose these knights because their shiny metallic armour gives off a nice contrast when so much detail is lost in the oil canvas approximation. The Hungarian Nobles or other knights have much darker textures and when retouched like this they don't look very nice. I have other SSs, most of which include a river, but I like the composition and colours of this one too much, otherwise I'd have included the river for sure. Overall, this is an artistic image, it's not here to bring accurate information for the game, but rather a feeling. BTW Gerneral's Bodyguard units are just as armoured, they just have barding on their horses.
    Okay, that makes sense. I was just thinking out load, I didn't mean to criticize or anything.

    Do you mind re-sizing that image though, I tried to put it in the first post and it took up the whole screen!
    :)
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    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    No worries, I'm all for constructive criticism and opinions. I ask for them actually. Sometimes I'm not happy with the result at all (like the TSI image), sometimes I just make what has been requested. Overall that's how its done however, so don't hold back :) Do we need signatures for the game? I suppose we have to wait for people to actually like their characters first.

    The forum resized it automatically, don't worry. The CoG and WotK2 images are all oversized, it will be fixed when you reload the page. It's better to have a high-res version for those with bigger monitors.

    FYI Monkey, the Junior King is not the Kig's son. I think he is his brother if I remember the family tree correctly. I'm away from my PC now so I can't double check.
    Last edited by Myth; 01-13-2012 at 10:22.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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    Mmmm, Antares is tasty! Senior Member Alien Attack Champion Nightbringer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    oh lords, the family tree.
    It is a godawful mess, but yes, technically The Junior King Bokeny is Pozsony's (the current King) cousin. However, the previous king, who died in 1208, was the Bokeny's father (Saul).

    To make things even worse, the king before that who died in 1206 was Pozsony's father (Mate).
    And the king before that was the cousin of the great grandfather of both Pozsony and Bokeny, who also died in 1206 (Sandor).

    I suppose we could say that there was a civil war after the death of Sandor between Saul and Mate. Saul killed Mate and took the throne, but Pozsony reclaimed it in 1208, killing Saul.

    So...
    Make of that mess whatever you like. You can use the little theoretical history I stated, or you two can agree on something else that is a bit less convoluted.
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    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    Do we need signatures for the game? I suppose we have to wait for people to actually like their characters first.
    If we're lucky, when deguerra gets back he might make us coats of arms like he did for some of our previous RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    Monkey, the Junior King is not the Kig's son. I think he is his brother if I remember the family tree correctly. I'm away from my PC now so I can't double check.
    Oops. Still, his father could have sent him to Zagreb when he was King, right?
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    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbringer View Post
    oh lords, the family tree.
    It is a godawful mess, but yes, technically The Junior King Bokeny is Pozsony's (the current King) cousin. However, the previous king, who died in 1208, was the Bokeny's father (Saul).

    To make things even worse, the king before that who died in 1206 was Pozsony's father (Mate).
    And the king before that was the cousin of the great grandfather of both Pozsony and Bokeny, who also died in 1206 (Sandor).

    I suppose we could say that there was a civil war after the death of Sandor between Saul and Mate. Saul killed Mate and took the throne, but Pozsony reclaimed it in 1208, killing Saul.

    So...
    Make of that mess whatever you like. You can use the little theoretical history I stated, or you two can agree on something else that is a bit less convoluted.
    I like that but it might be even better to say that after the death of Sandor there was a long period of Civil war between Saul and Mate during which each claimed and held the throne at different times and which ultimately claimed both their lives. The two sons, rather than continue the war, parleyed and with the other nobles and came to this settlement where Poszony is King and Bokeny his Junior.

    The other players in the game can decide for themselves whose side they were on in the Civil war and where their alliances lie now.

    What do you think?
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Quote Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey View Post
    I like that but it might be even better to say that after the death of Sandor there was a long period of Civil war between Saul and Mate during which each claimed and held the throne at different times and which ultimately claimed both their lives. The two sons, rather than continue the war, parleyed and with the other nobles and came to this settlement where Poszony is King and Bokeny his Junior.

    The other players in the game can decide for themselves whose side they were on in the Civil war and where their alliances lie now.

    What do you think?
    I like that a lot, and would love to go with that as long as myth is okay with it.
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  23. #23
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    1. I can make coats of arms. See Cecl's signature for example.

    2. Civil war between brothers and cousins who were Kings or close to it doesn't make sense. Civil war between the lesser nobility (Barons) and the King and his Dukes - that makes sense (a-la Baron's Rebellion). The Golden Bull is the result of such a thing.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    1. I can make coats of arms. See Cecl's signature for example.

    2. Civil war between brothers and cousins who were Kings or close to it doesn't make sense. Civil war between the lesser nobility (Barons) and the King and his Dukes - that makes sense (a-la Baron's Rebellion). The Golden Bull is the result of such a thing.
    1. Great! But you don't have to do everything Myth

    2. I'm sure we could think of a good reason why Saul and Mate would fight for the throne. perhaps they had different mothers like Mary of Scots and Elizabeth, and Sandor's divorce from his first wife was not recognized or was a bone of contention with certain sections of the nobility (her family). During his lifetime his influence was enough to keep these rebellious feelings in check but when the secondborn son (of the current wife) tried to ascend to the throne the discontented nobles saw their chance to seize power and pressed the claim of the firstborn. voila! Civil war. Of course the real motivations were political as they always are...

    If you don't like that I'm sure I could come up with something else
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    Wandering Metsuke Senior Member Zim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Civil wars between close family members are pretty common in history. If not in Hungary, then at least elsewhere. I'm sure we could come up with a reason (like the one suggested above).
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Here is the family tree



    As you can see, both Mate and Saul were quite distant relations of the previous king, but they were still the closest male descendant. (Saul had no siblings or other cousins).

    Mate and Saul can be assumed to have been about he same age, so when Sandor died there certainly would have been some ambiguity about which one would have been king. Because of this, I think it is reasonable that there could have been a civil war between them, which was only resolved by their son's after both had died.

    The most recent Baron's revolt which led to the Golden Bull (a historical event), was mainly caused by the nobility not wanting to be bound to going to war on the king's orders. It wasn't really much of a civil war, as battle's weren't fought (as far as I know), more just the Baron's refusing to go to war and the king being forced to capitulate.
    So it is pretty unrelated to succession, but it isn't unreasonable that several civil conflicts about different problems could arise in a fairly small amount of time.
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    The Count of Bohemia Senior Member Cecil XIX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Why, I'd certainly like to join this game! I'll take Mikan a Bogatradvany nembol, if you please.

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    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    This makes it much easier because the King dying with no heirs is almost always followed by a struggle for succession, whether that is outright war or just political turmoil.

    We can just say that, backed by different sections of the nobility, Mate and Saul each pressed a claim to the throne and fought a civil war over it.

    When Pozsony and Bokeny came to their settlement it was not approved by all of the nobility and shortly afterwards when Pozsony tried to muster the nobles for a war (against the Cumans? ERE perhaps?), they rose up in rebellion citing a number of grievances and that instability was only ended by the recent Golden Bull.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by phonicsmonkey; 01-13-2012 at 22:05.
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Quote Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey View Post
    This makes it much easier because the King dying with no heirs is almost always followed by a struggle for succession, whether that is outright war or just political turmoil.

    We can just say that, backed by different sections of the nobility, Mate and Saul each pressed a claim to the throne and fought a civil war over it.

    When Pozsony and Bokeny came to their settlement it was not approved by all of the nobility and shortly afterwards when Pozsony tried to muster the nobles for a war (against the Cumans? ERE perhaps?), they rose up in rebellion citing a number of grievances and that instability was only ended by the recent Golden Bull.

    What do you think?
    sounds perfect as long as myth is okay with it.


    And welcome to the game Cecil!

    I'm surprised by your choice, I thought poor Mikan was going to be left out entirely because he is a vassal.
    Last edited by Nightbringer; 01-13-2012 at 22:56.
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  30. #30
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lords of the Danube OOC thread

    Nice! I like that background. Mikan has the srongest army assembled at the moment, so he is a good choice. He is also young, has the King's favor, and is a decent general.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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