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Thread: Freedom! Och Aye the noo.....
If the Scots want to go, then that is their call. Good bye and good luck. I'd not fight to keep that dreary dump tied in with England. The threat of a Catholic invasion has decreased.
I do not understand why the English don't get a referrendum to boot Scotland out of the UK. It's as if we all have to sit there meekly, hoping that they will deign to stay with us.
As it stands, they have their politicians in Westminster and in their own parliment. When there was only one this was OK, but now this isn't right.
If they go it alone and thrive, then good on them. If they go it alone and fail at least they can only blame themselves.
I do not understand why the English don't get a referrendum to boot Scotland out of the UK. It's as if we all have to sit there meekly, hoping that they will deign to stay with us.
As it stands, they have their politicians in Westminster and in their own parliment. When there was only one this was OK, but now this isn't right.
If they go it alone and thrive, then good on them. If they go it alone and fail at least they can only blame themselves.
I'm curious as to what do they stand to gain from seceding... Pride? Perhaps, but pride is not a very hot commodity.
Originally Posted by rvg:
I'm curious as to what do they stand to gain from seceding... Pride? Perhaps, but pride is not a very hot commodity.
Oil, gas. Lot's of that round their part of the North Sea and Atlantic, you know.I'm curious as to what do they stand to gain from seceding... Pride? Perhaps, but pride is not a very hot commodity.
hmm Mr Osbourne obviously doesnt know his history he has forgotten there is precendent for breaking links with Sterling.
Seeing as that happend in the 1920s the financial system is probably far better equiped to adapt to a new currency in Scotland.
First you maintain one for one status and then later you float the currency freely and voila you have a new currency in Alba.
Indeed Irish people are often caught out on holidays in the UK as sometimes the banks here give out sterling notes printed by the Northern Bank which many places in the UK wont accept.
Technically Actually both Scots and Northern notes are separate currencies with a one for one status.
Seeing as that happend in the 1920s the financial system is probably far better equiped to adapt to a new currency in Scotland.
First you maintain one for one status and then later you float the currency freely and voila you have a new currency in Alba.
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla:
Beyond that basic point - the article is built on a fallacy because the Scottish Pound is seperate from the English one, all that has to happen is for the bank of England to stop redeeming the notes and the currency union ends.
Beyond that basic point - the article is built on a fallacy because the Scottish Pound is seperate from the English one, all that has to happen is for the bank of England to stop redeeming the notes and the currency union ends.
Indeed Irish people are often caught out on holidays in the UK as sometimes the banks here give out sterling notes printed by the Northern Bank which many places in the UK wont accept.
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy:
hmm Mr Osbourne obviously doesnt know his history he has forgotten there is precendent for breaking links with Sterling.
Seeing as that happend in the 1920s the financial system is probably far better equiped to adapt to a new currency in Scotland.
First you maintain one for one status and then later you float the currency freely and voila you have a new currency in Alba.
Indeed Irish people are often caught out on holidays in the UK as sometimes the banks here give out sterling notes printed by the Northern Bank which many places in the UK wont accept.
Technically Actually both Scots and Northern notes are separate currencies with a one for one status.
Really? The shops are supposed to take them.hmm Mr Osbourne obviously doesnt know his history he has forgotten there is precendent for breaking links with Sterling.
Seeing as that happend in the 1920s the financial system is probably far better equiped to adapt to a new currency in Scotland.
First you maintain one for one status and then later you float the currency freely and voila you have a new currency in Alba.
Indeed Irish people are often caught out on holidays in the UK as sometimes the banks here give out sterling notes printed by the Northern Bank which many places in the UK wont accept.
Anyway, look - Racist: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ctics-scotland
Salmond must have missed the part where most Scottish Westminster MP's are anti-Independence.
i'm a unionist and thus i consider scotland 'family'.
that however is a reciprocal relationship, and the relative that is seen to spend all its time whinging about the inequities of its family is likely to find itself cast-out even if it never gets the courage to leave voluntarily.
it is past time for the Scots to decide whether they consider themselves my family, willing to stand at my back as I would at theirs, and willing to see to the welfare of me and mine, as I would with theirs?
oh, and should you decide to leave think carefully about defence and foreign policy, we value the security that our island nation grants, so don't ever act as a staging ground for a hostile fifth column as that was what made the union a necessity in the first place. pull a stunt like that and you will be crushed.
that however is a reciprocal relationship, and the relative that is seen to spend all its time whinging about the inequities of its family is likely to find itself cast-out even if it never gets the courage to leave voluntarily.
it is past time for the Scots to decide whether they consider themselves my family, willing to stand at my back as I would at theirs, and willing to see to the welfare of me and mine, as I would with theirs?
oh, and should you decide to leave think carefully about defence and foreign policy, we value the security that our island nation grants, so don't ever act as a staging ground for a hostile fifth column as that was what made the union a necessity in the first place. pull a stunt like that and you will be crushed.
I feel very strongly about this.
First of all, lets talk Salmond. The man is a good politician, he knows how to build an image and play the system. he is however opportunistic, wanting independence for his own gain and to boost his ego further as "the man who freed Scotland". Mutual union with England has brought great benefit to Scotland. it provided stability in which an enlightenment flourished, Scotland grew, and economic stability was brought to to this island of ours. Salmond's idea of a Scottish identity is false. His concept is based on a Catholic, nationalist view bolstered by main stream support due to his liberal views and anti-English rhetoric. Countries go to war with themselves to preserve territorial integrity and am I supposed to just accept the destruction of my national identity. The reality Scottish independence would destroy my nationality. It would also be a huge security risk. If Scotland goes the Sinn Fein crowed will kick of causing bloodshed and further disintegration. Within a decade, perhaps minus Wales, the union would have crumbled and we will all be worse off, thanks to one man peddling his selfish vision.
I can say that if Scotland goes I will go. I will refuse to live in "England". I'm not English I'm British. If I'm in the forces at that point I'll see my contract our and quit. I wont defend England, I care not for England, I care for Britain. I would rather create a new national identity for myself in some other Anglo country, I Canada's nice than sit down and accept the destruction of my own.
First of all, lets talk Salmond. The man is a good politician, he knows how to build an image and play the system. he is however opportunistic, wanting independence for his own gain and to boost his ego further as "the man who freed Scotland". Mutual union with England has brought great benefit to Scotland. it provided stability in which an enlightenment flourished, Scotland grew, and economic stability was brought to to this island of ours. Salmond's idea of a Scottish identity is false. His concept is based on a Catholic, nationalist view bolstered by main stream support due to his liberal views and anti-English rhetoric. Countries go to war with themselves to preserve territorial integrity and am I supposed to just accept the destruction of my national identity. The reality Scottish independence would destroy my nationality. It would also be a huge security risk. If Scotland goes the Sinn Fein crowed will kick of causing bloodshed and further disintegration. Within a decade, perhaps minus Wales, the union would have crumbled and we will all be worse off, thanks to one man peddling his selfish vision.
I can say that if Scotland goes I will go. I will refuse to live in "England". I'm not English I'm British. If I'm in the forces at that point I'll see my contract our and quit. I wont defend England, I care not for England, I care for Britain. I would rather create a new national identity for myself in some other Anglo country, I Canada's nice than sit down and accept the destruction of my own.
Originally Posted by Furunculus:
oh, and should you decide to leave think carefully about defence and foreign policy, we value the security that our island nation grants, so don't ever act as a staging ground for a hostile fifth column as that was what made the union a necessity in the first place. pull a stunt like that and you will be crushed.
Ouch, this brings back memories...oh, and should you decide to leave think carefully about defence and foreign policy, we value the security that our island nation grants, so don't ever act as a staging ground for a hostile fifth column as that was what made the union a necessity in the first place. pull a stunt like that and you will be crushed.
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk:
If the Scots want to go, then that is their call. Good bye and good luck. I'd not fight to keep that dreary dump tied in with England. The threat of a Catholic invasion has decreased.
I do not understand why the English don't get a referrendum to boot Scotland out of the UK. It's as if we all have to sit there meekly, hoping that they will deign to stay with us.
As it stands, they have their politicians in Westminster and in their own parliment. When there was only one this was OK, but now this isn't right.
If they go it alone and thrive, then good on them. If they go it alone and fail at least they can only blame themselves.
We could have a referendum on US leaving the Union, we couldn't very well have one on kicking the Scots out.If the Scots want to go, then that is their call. Good bye and good luck. I'd not fight to keep that dreary dump tied in with England. The threat of a Catholic invasion has decreased.
I do not understand why the English don't get a referrendum to boot Scotland out of the UK. It's as if we all have to sit there meekly, hoping that they will deign to stay with us.
As it stands, they have their politicians in Westminster and in their own parliment. When there was only one this was OK, but now this isn't right.
If they go it alone and thrive, then good on them. If they go it alone and fail at least they can only blame themselves.
Anyway, most Scots are neither stupid nor racist bigots like Salmond - they don't want independance, simply less interference from London, and don't we all want that?
Beyond that basic point - the article is built on a fallacy because the Scottish Pound is seperate from the English one, all that has to happen is for the bank of England to stop redeeming the notes and the currency union ends.
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla:
We could have a referendum on US leaving the Union, we couldn't very well have one on kicking the Scots out.
Anyway, most Scots are neither stupid nor racist bigots like Salmond - they don't want independance, simply less interference from London, and don't we all want that?
Beyond that basic point - the article is built on a fallacy because the Scottish Pound is seperate from the English one, all that has to happen is for the bank of England to stop redeeming the notes and the currency union ends.
Yes, I agree that my phrasing was deliberately poor - we could opt to leave.We could have a referendum on US leaving the Union, we couldn't very well have one on kicking the Scots out.
Anyway, most Scots are neither stupid nor racist bigots like Salmond - they don't want independance, simply less interference from London, and don't we all want that?
Beyond that basic point - the article is built on a fallacy because the Scottish Pound is seperate from the English one, all that has to happen is for the bank of England to stop redeeming the notes and the currency union ends.
I agree that all areas would like less interference from Westminster. BUT with the Scots, they along with the Welsh (wno are both overly represented in Westminster) can vote for one thing... and then their local parliments can choose to do something completely different - they vote on laws that England has to abide by, whereas they on many issues can do differently.
I think that there should be a referrendum - and a simple yes or no. The half way house (devolution max) again appears to be trying to cherry pick all the bits that are good, and avoid all the bits that aren't.
The whole thing is a disagrace, I will refuse to vote in a referendum or take part in this discussion as it is currently being framed.
The whole framework of the discussion is obviously orientated towards the position of the Scottish nationalists. For Mr. Cameron and all the opposition parties at Holyrood to talk about the "collective sovereignty" of the "Scottish people" in itself gives legitimacy to the idea of Scottish nationhood.
I don't even like the term 'unionist' since it suggests that Britain in not a nation in itself, but just a collection of nations. As a British nationalist I don't feel such a term is appropriate so I prefer to call myself a 'loyalist'.
For a long time now mainstream unionists have identified as both Scottish and British and supported devolution. Such a position has created a cycle of destroying the British identity and British institutions, to the point that we have spiralled into the current situation - something that would have been unthinkable even 15 years ago.
My position here as a loyalist is a fringe one, unacceptable in mainstream debate, and unrepresented by the major parties. Although I do wonder how the working-class loyalist enclaves dotted around Scotland's central belt will react in the event of independence. The Orange Order has in the past said some pretty extreme things on the matter. Although it backed down over those statements, its more conciliatory approach of late has meant it has lost a lot of ground to similar groups that have a much more militant stance. And I say this as someone that lives in the little town that hosts what has been dubbed Scotland's Garvahy Road.
The whole framework of the discussion is obviously orientated towards the position of the Scottish nationalists. For Mr. Cameron and all the opposition parties at Holyrood to talk about the "collective sovereignty" of the "Scottish people" in itself gives legitimacy to the idea of Scottish nationhood.
I don't even like the term 'unionist' since it suggests that Britain in not a nation in itself, but just a collection of nations. As a British nationalist I don't feel such a term is appropriate so I prefer to call myself a 'loyalist'.
For a long time now mainstream unionists have identified as both Scottish and British and supported devolution. Such a position has created a cycle of destroying the British identity and British institutions, to the point that we have spiralled into the current situation - something that would have been unthinkable even 15 years ago.
My position here as a loyalist is a fringe one, unacceptable in mainstream debate, and unrepresented by the major parties. Although I do wonder how the working-class loyalist enclaves dotted around Scotland's central belt will react in the event of independence. The Orange Order has in the past said some pretty extreme things on the matter. Although it backed down over those statements, its more conciliatory approach of late has meant it has lost a lot of ground to similar groups that have a much more militant stance. And I say this as someone that lives in the little town that hosts what has been dubbed Scotland's Garvahy Road.
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